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Module activation delay. (Videos inside)

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Author
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Johnson Johnson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-07-03 21:37:26 UTC
eve online is a turn based space strategy and always will be
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-07-04 12:49:21 UTC
Fix this.
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-07-09 02:31:00 UTC
Mhmm also greatly interested in this possibly being rectified. Nothign more annoying than calling point and watching that frigate warp off as it says in local something about fail. DEATH TO TEH FRIGATES -.-
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-07-10 21:22:17 UTC
Any news Veritas?
What has other devs said about all this?
How low priority did it get on the to do list?
Eta on the blog you are going to make?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Po3tank
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#105 - 2012-07-14 10:34:10 UTC
bump! I just missed 3 frigs because of this issue Ugh
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#106 - 2012-07-14 11:11:53 UTC
Any chance when you guys upgrade the hardware you can try to fix or at least tune this timing a bit better? It does cause you to miss point when 1 or 2 seconds count and wasn't an issue before the server timing thing or whatever changed it.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-07-14 11:58:06 UTC
I have noticed this problem for a long time now. I dont recall it being so obvious in the past but this last year or so it is very evident.

I too would like a CCP devblog on this overall issue with 1hz ticks. Also if it is possible to smooth out then DO IT!! =D

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-07-23 00:44:26 UTC
Any news Veritas?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-08-09 16:53:56 UTC
:3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-08-16 10:54:06 UTC
check check Veritas? hows it going? :D you said you were doing a blog about this? do you think you can do something to improve this part of gameplay for christmas?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-08-16 16:17:34 UTC
supported!
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#112 - 2012-09-10 19:05:15 UTC
Bump, and yes veritas you still owe us the devblog and adrenaline shoot.
TRUE ZER0
SILENT INC
#113 - 2012-09-10 19:27:57 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
Misanth wrote:
If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. P


I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+


Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc.

The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different..

TL;DR we have to suck it up.
Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. What?


Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking.
GOTMYEYEONYOU
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-09-11 05:01:13 UTC
TRUE ZER0 wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Bubanni wrote:
Misanth wrote:
If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. P


I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+


Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc.

The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different..

TL;DR we have to suck it up.
Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. What?


Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking.

This has happened to me as well. For some reason, this conversation seems familiar.

what, not relevant enough? or have you decided to make it personal?
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-09-11 08:18:43 UTC
Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this.
Doddy
Excidium.
#116 - 2012-09-11 08:47:18 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
:3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship...


Been the cov ops in this situation a few times, mr interceptor flying right through me and out the otherside without decloaking me. Of course i loved it at the time ....
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-09-11 09:13:55 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this.

THis doesnt only affect gate camping.... It's all tackling everywhere

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-09-11 10:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cede Forster
just to make sure i really got this

Client(1) to Server: Lock target
Client(2) to Server: Warp to X

- Tick 1-
Server to Client(1). Target locked
Server to Client(2): Ship flight vector set
- End Tick 1-

Client to Server(1): Activate module on target (regardless if you click the module on the target or manual do after target lock)

-Tick 2-
Server to Client(2): Warp initiated, dropping all target locks
Server to Client(1): No target lock exists, module can not be activated
-End Tick 2-


I am just guessing here, but the server will simply check if the warp conditions are met before any input because the warp command is stored server side(therefore is the first in the list, rest is sorted by the time they reached the server), the activate module command is stored client side?

If that is the case, you can not catch a ship once the "align time" is below 2 seconds, it could be adjusted so the "warp initiate" stays server side but is processed at the end, the result would be that all ships would be caught, independent of their align time as long you lock them as fast as they set warp

only way to solve it is to save the "warp command" and the "tackle command" server side with the time stamp of the original order issued, have the server calculate seperatly when the command should be valid (align time, lock time) and sort the events by it?

does not sound like a easy fix
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-09-11 11:01:07 UTC
me and few other noticed this extra delay arrive after a patch last summer.

The months after we noticed people calling point and watching their "pointed" target ship warp off time and time again, one person did it so often he actually had the problem named after him, "pulling a kiki" (kiki le'boautier).

We raised the issue at the time and filled a few petitions to be told that we were dreaming and that its lag, despite the obvious fact that we have been playing for many years and suddenly all have the same problem. We guessed it was an extra line of code going to the target ships client to check its online before making the point work or something along those lines, since sebo'ed HICs were catching all but the very fasted frigs, well whatever was changed it made it barely possible to catch even slow frigs.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-09-11 11:09:14 UTC
Cede Forster wrote:
just to make sure i really got this

Client(1) to Server: Lock target
Client(2) to Server: Warp to X

- Tick 1-
Server to Client(1). Target locked
Server to Client(2): Ship flight vector set
- End Tick 1-

Client to Server(1): Activate module on target (regardless if you click the module on the target or manual do after target lock)

-Tick 2-
Server to Client(2): Warp initiated, dropping all target locks
Server to Client(1): No target lock exists, module can not be activated
-End Tick 2-


sounds about right, thats how I understand it too basicly, with problem being that module activation isn't server sided so the servers can't prioitize it.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934