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A petition to CCP Greyscale on Sentry Mechanics (Please Read)

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Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#221 - 2012-08-04 18:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Forget having the juicy hi sec sheep easily be baited by "rewards" and willing to come to you as sacrifical lambs, all you'll get are guys with sharp teeth who are smart enough to not be found by you when you want your fill of PvP on your terms.


Im fine with that and willing to bet I WILL find them.


Yeah but you know, those who will come, won't be in a corp called "Fluffybunnies indy miners" but in some "Predators are us YARR!" (you know it's not unknown to you Cool) with all skulls and bones on the corp logo.

I don't see them being abundant at all.


I hope you dont think helpless targets are all I, or most pirates, actually want. I don't think thats the case. I am not advocating that CCP create a single, up-to-date source of pvp information thinking it will create easy targets. I am hoping for the opposite. I am starting a corp right now to do just that; train highsec pilots on how to pvp in lowsec. Im putting my money where my mouth is and stepping up. In fact anyone interested in giving lowsec a shot is free to evemail me.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2012-08-04 19:03:59 UTC
/signed

The LULZ Boat.
Icecar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#223 - 2012-08-04 19:06:52 UTC
I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#224 - 2012-08-04 19:28:09 UTC
Icecar wrote:
I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****.


Try actually paying attention to the discussion before you run your mouth, might look less stupid that way.

Back on topic - As much as we disagree on most things i think Vaerah Vahrokha has pretty much hit it on the head, most high sec dwellers simply dont have the mindset to even want to peek into lowsec let alone live there.

The only activity Ive seen that got any more high sec people to come to lowsec was PI, and as far as i can see thats for two reasons.

1. Once you have your planet set up you can do your pickups in a cloaky hauler in almost complete safety and still reap the increased rewards.

2. When the POCOs were introduced it actually gave pirate corps an incentive not to shoot guys who PI'd in their space simply because if you leave them alone you make some money too.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
YuuKnow
The Scope
#225 - 2012-08-04 20:28:29 UTC
Is this the first whine thread for the proposed changes?

Low sec is FUBARed in terms of risk/rewards Low sec activity minimal and gates easily blockaded. I like these changes. In some ways low sec may even behave much like a TQ version of Sisi rules.

yk
YuuKnow
The Scope
#226 - 2012-08-04 20:46:09 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.


Please don't yield to a minority of loud whiners. There will always be a percentage of players that resist change and while loudly. The low-sec game as it is needs some major overhauls, more than just more ore or higher bounties.

I applaud CCP for making fundamental and bold changes to address the problem.

yk
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#227 - 2012-08-04 20:53:24 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Guess its just what Sony tells CCP:
Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)...


I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form.....


Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.

Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.

THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat.


I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.

And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting.
Jaangel
BLAMBER
#228 - 2012-08-04 20:54:41 UTC
I think the proposed changes in this iteration are dread full.

I believe these changes would destroy low sec, taking something that is quiet active in pockets to empty.

Frigates being able to stay on gate for a short time is a good idea.

Limiting battles though increasing damage would destroy small gang PVP IMO. Sometimes the only way you can destroy a larger target is through bleeding it's tank over time.

i also believe caps ability to be used in low sec is also crucial to smaller corps wanting to step into alliances.

These changes in there current iteration would be a major nerf to the pirate life style. Low sec needs a buff. If this idea was implemented with the damage increasing over a period of an hour. enabling firgates to fight for short periods of time and capitals to still be used. It might be more workable.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#229 - 2012-08-04 20:55:22 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.


Please don't yield to a minority of loud whiners. There will always be a percentage of players that resist change and while loudly. The low-sec game as it is needs some major overhauls, more than just more ore or higher bounties.

I applaud CCP for making fundamental and bold changes to address the problem.

yk


So you insult those who openly discuss the pros and cons yet you give no credible reason as to why this would draw others to low sec. Its Already been discussed that this would change little in terms of low sec population.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#230 - 2012-08-04 21:58:01 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Guess its just what Sony tells CCP:
Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)...


I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form.....


Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.

Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.

THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat.


I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.

And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting.


I didn't mean anyone specifically, but just in general. But I like the way you think.

John Hancock
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#231 - 2012-08-04 22:22:06 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Guess its just what Sony tells CCP:
Make the Game more attractive for people that are used to WOW but grew out of it and make it a "hello kitty in space". It is pure greed. We do not even have to talk about the fact that epic gate fights will not happen anymore...You will not have the time to ransom other players anymore which will result in EVERYBODY catched by a camp just getting podded (until CCP breaks podding in low sec as well)...


I never even thought about the inability to ransom someone. Well this actually DOES kill Piracy in it's truest form.....


Pirates killed piracy. You guys could have ran that sh*t like the mob, but instead it became about kill mails, dishonoring ransoms and blowing up anything that popped through the gates. The short term thinking of the majority of losec players amazes me, because with some protection rackets and crafty manipulation you might have made some serious bank. I'm talking a player-driven social structure that could easily be comparable to such things as the mob in 30s Chicago or 70-80s New York, or even a Mexican Cartel organization.

Maybe that's what CCP is trying to nudge the players to incorporate for themselves, instead of this scorched earth policy that most people utilize for the lulz and the mailz. That was never sustainable in the first place, and it reeks of welfare dependance that players would do this and then cry that CCP should move Lvl4s, Incursions, etc. out to losec. By now making it near impossible to perma-tank gate guns (which never should have been an option, ever), players will now have to adapt, be creative, learn new methods to play and profit from the game. If losec players are smart, they will start thinking more long term. They may even create a whole new social structure in losec that would encourage more people to come to losec via a mafia-style protection system that would shield those who pay and destroy those who are payees to other losec corps.

THIS would be emergent gameplay, and this would be something that would draw me out into losec in a heartbeat.


I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.

And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting.


I didn't mean anyone specifically, but just in general. But I like the way you think.


Thanks.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#232 - 2012-08-04 22:29:16 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
I couldn't agree more. I do not kill those whom I've ransomed but that doesn't stop others from doing so. Call me old fashioned but I remember the rush I got the first time I saw my wallet flash after i opened chat with my victim. Sadly Piracy in its truest form has fallen to the wayside to be replaced by with hotdrops, titan bridges and the like. Pirates have adapted null sec tactics though be it on a smaller scale to be effective.

And who's to say we don't already run our alliance like the mafia providing protection for a price. To be frank I sort of wish they would remove killmails completely. I think im going to bring this up to other members simply because this is how I've always been as a pirate. Its not all about kills. The psychological impact you have on other is what makes it interesting.
Nice post and I couldn't have said it better myself.

I have said it before, if we killed everything, we'd be doing it wrong. We are there to make ISK and right now because low sec has no real benefit outside of high and null, our money making area is a gate.
Instead of nerfing our only money making spot, why not create more money making spots? Boost low, don't nerf it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#233 - 2012-08-04 23:46:33 UTC
i like the proposed changes. yeah i get shot at...so? I'm a dirty pirate i killz you anyways and get away with it.
Sekket
Perkone
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-08-05 01:09:38 UTC
I while back another player suggested that instead of arriving at another gate that ships should instead appear at a warp-in point around the star in the destination system.

I thought it was pretty radical at the time, but after thinking about it for a while it does seem to be the way to go. It still provides the ability to try and intercept players on the other side but removes the gate guns from the equation.
  • CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE
Mag's
Azn Empire
#235 - 2012-08-05 01:22:01 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
i like the proposed changes. yeah i get shot at...so? I'm a dirty pirate i killz you anyways and get away with it.
But this is the whole point, we still kill with these unnecessary changes. But the difference with this change means no ransoms, as who want to be hanging around when the guns start to really hurt.

So more deaths not less and with a reduced income for pirates (who live in and off low sec traffic).
What was it he was trying to solve again?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#236 - 2012-08-05 01:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
Icecar wrote:
I find it funny how all you lowsec pirates like to call gang-raping single ships "pvp." Honestly you guys have had this coming to you for a while. Karma is a *****.


I find it funny how many high sec players think this is pirates whining that their game just got harder. You guys don't understand how sentry or most of crimewatch mechanics changes will hurt the entire game as a whole. I can dock a combat ship under current GCC sentry fire and get back out of it in an untanked helios to scan another half-wit when the situation warrants it. Sentry changes won't stop that it will only give a false sense of security. Here are a couple examples for the uninformed masses which I'm pretty sure includes the Greyscale dev guy:

A dessy or interceptor can now survive a shot or 2 from sentries to tackle? AWESOME!!!! because the sentries can't hit the sniper munnins camping the gate.

Suspect flag now gives someone a global tag for anyone to aggress? Ok...I flag myself and warp 100 off a busy mission hub gate. My fleet is comprised of RR battleships but comes to the gate and begins to shoot me a little bit to make it look like there is an entire fleet pounding on the "suspect". When foolish players burn out to whore on a killmail the aggressor fleet now becomes suspect RR for me. They now get a suspect flag,too...but who cares it's a organized fleet the best thing that could happen is more random idiots start shooting.


They should change the name of this stuff from Crimewatch to Deception. What was really needed was the aggression timer for rr and maybe a longer time to dock after aggro to address some of the docking game issues. What they are doing is packing 10 pounds of bullshit into a 5 pound bag with a shiny bow...
EliteStealth
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#237 - 2012-08-05 08:24:45 UTC
SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT

Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place...
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#238 - 2012-08-05 08:39:50 UTC
My question is, how the **** does CCP Greyscale still have a job? That guy has screwed up everything he as ever touched in EVE.
Frying Doom
#239 - 2012-08-05 08:46:50 UTC
EliteStealth wrote:
SIGNED.....WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THAT

Also if Eve is a sandbox why is ccp trying to take away from that mechanic??? Honestly if people like low sec and aren't complaining then wy change it? Furthermore the game isn't about making it easier its about willpower, strength, and determination. The best quote from EVEONLINE I have ever heard is Wow gives you a cookie for each of your accomplishments...EVEONLINE takes your cookie eats it in front of you and laughs at you for brining one in the first place...

I think the main problem is that Lo-sec is a ghost town and people are complaining about it, just not the pirates who live there.
As to the cookie this is stealing part of a pirates cookie and giving it to someone else.

To be honest given the population levels of Lo-sec, you should all be proud. Just about everyone in lo-sec must have come on to these forums by now to complain about this change.

Well at least we have a forum to point to if lo-sec dwellers ever complain that Lo-sec is so dead.

See look what happened last time they thought about changing Lo-sec
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=139926 Big smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Robus Muvila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2012-08-05 10:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Robus Muvila
I just found out that CCP Greyscale was in the year above me at Secondary School. We were both in the computer club. He needs to comply with this thread or I will go and get a camera and get film of his old teachers relating hilarious anectdotes about how adorable he was with his squeaky little voice.

And for confirmation, the first teachers I will talk to will be Mr Fenton & Mr Sandercock (Yes we had a teacher called Sandercock. We used to call him "Gritdick" behind his back).


DUN

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