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A petition to CCP Greyscale on Sentry Mechanics (Please Read)

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XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#161 - 2012-08-03 19:10:33 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Sure, I'll make a note to have another look at this and get some more player feedback when we start finalizing the designs.


Any possibiliy of making the sentry guns destructible by players? Have them respawn after DT. Not easily destroyed but make it more of a challenge to camp a gate with a reward for successfully destroying all sentries at a gate. I don't mean destroyed by one or two ships but more of a large scale type effort to claim that gate to be able to camp it.
Jim Era
#162 - 2012-08-03 19:12:21 UTC
To everyone who threatens to leave, we dun want you here.
HKO is ----------------------------------->
(and its pretty fun)

Wat™
Ms Kat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2012-08-03 19:16:42 UTC
I for one am for the changes, anything to open up the game to more people is GOOD
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-08-03 19:26:19 UTC
Plus 100. This is a kick in the balls that low sec doesn't need. Fu** the vocal minority. If anything remove gate guns completely they're just an annoyance.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#165 - 2012-08-03 20:08:26 UTC
What I still don't get is what is the point/ intention? Is it to lock criminals (-10) out of hi-sec? is it to encourge low-sec pvp, or discourage? Trying to fix low-sec? If your trying to fix low-sec, low-sec is dead because there is no reason to be there. Simples.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Holy8th
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#166 - 2012-08-03 20:38:43 UTC
/signed.

This is by far one of the most terrible ideas to hit lowsec. This removes any chance of a good small gang vs small gang on a lowsec gate and only turns them into ganking devices. Seriously, the level of stupid in this idea is mind boggling.
Malatha
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#167 - 2012-08-03 20:51:39 UTC
/signed

If changes similar to this are implemented, I will be dropping all three of my accounts. If anything low sec should be MORE deadly.

Greyscale, you are an idiot.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#168 - 2012-08-03 20:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Gogela wrote:
As a lowsec pirate, I'd like to say that I think the guy above is pretty much right. Anything they change is lowsec is better than nothing because right now lowsec is a wasteland of a few pirates, big alliances staging for this or that, and that's about all. lowsec is so screwed up right now that you couldn't do anything to make is more sparsely populated. Some kind of larger view and strategy plan would be nice, but if small changes are all CCP is capable of than I say anything beats nothing.


I disagree completely. Vying for ANY change instead of positive change is detrimental. The underlying issue is there is NO content to drive people to go to low sec compared to Null. Aside from pure small gang combat, give me reasons for mission runners, industrialists, miners, explorers, etc to come to low sec.

I'll give you a hint there is none. Aside from blitzing level 5's there is only a trickle of traffic that comes through low sec on a daily basis. So these people who cry that gates are camped 24/7 are simply talking out of their ass.

This would (in my eyes and in the eyes of many people here) be THE last nail in the coffin for Low Sec period. You limit the type of combat to be had? You take away the one shining example as to what used to make Low Sec glorious in the past then you effectively kill it off.

The fights is what keep me and others still around. We don't want to be in a lag fest of three to four hundred pilots in a giant bubble sitting and shooting in some of the most mundane and boring combat to be had.

Small gang fights are vibrant. There is such a dynamic to be had with how fights can evolve which is what makes it fun. YOUR role in the fight is that much more important. Knowing how to adapt and change tactics on the fly is one of the staples of what Low Sec pvp has always been.

It creates better fights and some of the best pilots to ever roam New Eden period. It's not about gate camps and personally I find them boring. Yet sadly let me ask you what else?

If there is no traffic or no population in Low Sec what's the point? CCP again needs to look at the underlying issue to Low Sec which has always been zero unique content outside of combat.
Augustine Kuvora
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-08-03 20:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Augustine Kuvora
/signed
Zed Jackelope
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#170 - 2012-08-03 21:34:18 UTC
Awesome moderator Zymurgist gets fired..... Greyscale is still employed.

CCP hates Brutors CryCryCry


Here's a lowsec sentry gun change... stop shooting drones, its ******** that your sentry guns can completely negate the gallente/amarr drone boats. Or better yet, stop shooting combat drones... shoot everything else, especially ECM and fighters.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#171 - 2012-08-03 21:42:07 UTC
Tara Read wrote:

1. A cookie cutter fitting vomited out via alliance mail for a certain setup that even the most mundane player could grasp.

2. Bookmarks leading to a Titan for transport. How do we do DAT!? One may ask. Just right click and JUMP!

3. Said "skillful" pilot put's his mettle to the test (and his internet connection) as lag ensues creating an exciting experience only to be witnessed in glorious combat with 300 of his closest comrades at his back. How's that for individual performance eh?

4. Said pilot is now breathing hard as his finger twitches over his keyboard waiting for the FC to give that one glorious command. That one order to then unleash his fury and might against opponents that have not seen such finesse!

5. His bruised and beaten F1 key is suddenly pressed as his full potential is unleashed in a torrent of hellish destruction only seen in Null Sec!

6. As the dust clears and all said lemmings (cough) i mean pilots converge upon one another grinning with smeared Frito's on their fingers they reap the spoils and return glorious for no other pilots could match the SKILL and FURY of Null sec.


1- what's the point you're trying to make here? -personal bad idea of what really is null sec or players living there

2-again you have no clue about null sec

3-you put a smile in my face with this statement, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And those hundreds/thousands players with solo/small gang kills in null sec (you can find with a little research) are laughing at this statement.

4-why do you keep arguing something you clearly don't have a clue about? -because someone told you or you saw a couple videos, maybe read a couple threads on GD about big wars? -again something you have no clue about)

5-yep because no one in low sec hits F1 at the first thing he can target, of course your F1 needs a middle finger skill very special, a low one Lol

6- because this point is just another 4 and 5 bis

Then you ask something unique only low sec should have, lets see:

Excellent and rich ore/ice belts: they're empty, how did you do that, with skill? or just because it's easier to have an alt in NPC high sec corp doing it at some belt?

Anoms: some of the unique and most expensive B/C type mods, BPC's, industry items are easily found in low sec, but very few adventure over there, why?
-what are you doing to make people love your low sec so much that actually you can ransom them?

Industry slots: manufacturing, invention, research slots very often with low to no delay to use, why there aren't more people going there?

You answer: *carebears don't like risk, they're risk averse* so actually you're saying it's their own fault if they don't take those risks for better rewards but what solutions are you proposing?
The fact you shouldn't be able to sit your Drake and perma tank gate, sit a gang of battleships and smartbomb everything passing through while being rep by logistics doesn't even gets your attention about the fact you actually take NO RISK

Flash news: Low sec is still empire and there's no logical reason you should be able to sit there and poo over Empire facilities because they're dumb/weak enough to get you out of there. You should not be able to permatank sentry dmg with or without logistics, point blank.

Now the problem is about real roaming gangs and the fact they could no longer have fights at those gates. This is the only real problem that needs to find a decent solution.

brb
Reiss Jovian
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#172 - 2012-08-03 21:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Reiss Jovian
Any actual nerfing of lowsec, no matter the severity of the nerf, well result in me dropping all accounts. C'mon CCP, seriously? You should be doing the opposite.
LET'S AVOID THE DEATH OF LOWSEC!!

./Signed
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#173 - 2012-08-03 21:58:06 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

1. A cookie cutter fitting vomited out via alliance mail for a certain setup that even the most mundane player could grasp.

2. Bookmarks leading to a Titan for transport. How do we do DAT!? One may ask. Just right click and JUMP!

3. Said "skillful" pilot put's his mettle to the test (and his internet connection) as lag ensues creating an exciting experience only to be witnessed in glorious combat with 300 of his closest comrades at his back. How's that for individual performance eh?

4. Said pilot is now breathing hard as his finger twitches over his keyboard waiting for the FC to give that one glorious command. That one order to then unleash his fury and might against opponents that have not seen such finesse!

5. His bruised and beaten F1 key is suddenly pressed as his full potential is unleashed in a torrent of hellish destruction only seen in Null Sec!

6. As the dust clears and all said lemmings (cough) i mean pilots converge upon one another grinning with smeared Frito's on their fingers they reap the spoils and return glorious for no other pilots could match the SKILL and FURY of Null sec.


1- what's the point you're trying to make here? -personal bad idea of what really is null sec or players living there

2-again you have no clue about null sec

3-you put a smile in my face with this statement, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And those hundreds/thousands players with solo/small gang kills in null sec (you can find with a little research) are laughing at this statement.

4-why do you keep arguing something you clearly don't have a clue about? -because someone told you or you saw a couple videos, maybe read a couple threads on GD about big wars? -again something you have no clue about)

5-yep because no one in low sec hits F1 at the first thing he can target, of course your F1 needs a middle finger skill very special, a low one Lol

6- because this point is just another 4 and 5 bis

Then you ask something unique only low sec should have, lets see:

Excellent and rich ore/ice belts: they're empty, how did you do that, with skill? or just because it's easier to have an alt in NPC high sec corp doing it at some belt?

Anoms: some of the unique and most expensive B/C type mods, BPC's, industry items are easily found in low sec, but very few adventure over there, why?
-what are you doing to make people love your low sec so much that actually you can ransom them?

Industry slots: manufacturing, invention, research slots very often with low to no delay to use, why there aren't more people going there?

You answer: *carebears don't like risk, they're risk averse* so actually you're saying it's their own fault if they don't take those risks for better rewards but what solutions are you proposing?
The fact you shouldn't be able to sit your Drake and perma tank gate, sit a gang of battleships and smartbomb everything passing through while being rep by logistics doesn't even gets your attention about the fact you actually take NO RISK

Flash news: Low sec is still empire and there's no logical reason you should be able to sit there and poo over Empire facilities because they're dumb/weak enough to get you out of there. You should not be able to permatank sentry dmg with or without logistics, point blank.

Now the problem is about real roaming gangs and the fact they could no longer have fights at those gates. This is the only real problem that needs to find a decent solution.


1. I'm an ******* and lived in Null. I've witnessed first hand the pants on head mentality that Null sec breeds.

2. Clearly I don't. Please enlighten us about what Null sec is "all" about.

3. Uhuh. Then why is any fight of any mention huge engagements? I'm not saying small gang pvp does not take place I am saying it quickly evolves into a war of attrition more than anything else.

4. Again please. Enlighten us all on the "positives" of Null sec combat. I'm listening. Or is your lack of response due to the lag?

5. I actually click. Well it's rather a hybrid of keybinds on my mouse and individual clicking. And I don't hit F1. But thanks for assuming!

6. You DO realize your response is just making me smile because you are clearly upset about someone taking a dump on your "glorious" null sec pvp's.

First I never stated anything about Ice or ore specifics. I stated Low Sec should have a REASON to drive said persons to the region. THAT is the issue. There's no profit to be had! The risk vs reward factor is clearly unbalanced which is why Low Sec is in the state it is in.

As far as Anoms, Industry, etc again I am waiting for CCP to give players a reason to return to Low Sec....

Now moving on to your bullshit excuse about "risk" and what was that? Drakes? First of all Low Sec is "low security" meaning CONCORD will not hold your hand nor will some big alliance pat your bottom and say it's okay to jump. If half the people who jumped in used their heads it wouldn't result in a loss.

This sounds to me again like some pissy kid who lost their Iteron to a gate. BTW the fact that we take Sentry fire is in fact RISK. Get your facts straight.

So now you want logistics to be mandatory on gates? You DO realize now that the dynamic of fights has now changed. You are now saying that players who wish to engage are already at a dismal disadvantage and MUST tank guns PLUS incoming targets be they hostile or not.

Just. Stop. Now.

P.S. You gave NO valid answers to any solution and instead bitched about how I'm "ignorant" of your godly null sec pvp and still provided ridiculous "solutions" or ideas to sentry mechanics.




Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#174 - 2012-08-03 22:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
Cyprus Black wrote:
Finally!
Trade can finally come to lowsec.
Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates.
EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped.
Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec.
Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk.
The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance.
PI can really take off now.
Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials.
There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.

Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.


You're an idiot, plan and simple. You don't know how to fly. PERIOD. Trade happens all the time. I fly an impel through lowsec and have never, ever lost it. What? You think the folks I shoot at wouldn't love to pop it? I live off of PI. That fact that ccp is favoring the likes of you is disgusting and repulsive. Learn to scout, learn to bookmark, learn to use the directional scanner. The reason why 90% of you losers die in lowsec is because you don't even try to understand pvp. You go out there and hope for the best. Nor, you take responsibility for your short comings on the subject. You don't even give this game the respect wow raiders give warcraft. At least they go and look up how to do something rather than going in blind. Your an embarrassment to all of us and you dont even know it. Once upon a time this game was all about being CHALLENGED. Not having it handed to you. Thus, everything meant more. Hell, there was a time when there were no tutorials at all. You had to figure it out. YOU never would have made it out of the station.

CCP your job is not to protect anyone! SANDBOX hello!! Throw them in the fire and let god sort them. Thats the roots of EVE online. Now all the spoiled little brats are taking over including this CCP clown. Its lowsec, its lawless, THAT is the point. You want security go to null and make it yourself or stay your butt in highsec. You wanna fight, come to my hood.

...and you ..you sniveling little. keep you dirty little, short sighted, numb-skull 'ideas' off my game. Keep messing with it and you will loose money. I got years in this. And if you ban me or anyone eles for giving it to you straight then this game deserves to fail.


....oh and /signed!
Zarian Uphius
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#175 - 2012-08-03 22:05:46 UTC
How is this change at all good for lowsec?

What happens when I undock as a pirate?

Why are you going to limit my targets in lowsec to only be faction warfare targets...since engaging anything that gives you GCC will result in death.

If this change is going to happen can you just add concord to lowsec so I can move my freighter through space faster? Although with how these changes sound a freighter will be safe from most things but the largest of gate camps.


Why do you want to make lowsec HARDER to pvp in?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#176 - 2012-08-03 22:11:48 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
same old bottle of *I don't want risk*


Nothing you argue from the beginning shows low sec will be worst, you keep complaining and talking about null and your glorious null sec experience yadayada, it's ok, so lets move on and try to stick to the real problem you're making: low sec will die !

Why? -because you rage quit with the few actually thinking like you just like the guy above?

Bah, let's admit for a second because of this change at least 15% of high sec population (many already lived in null/low/wh's) finds thins change finally the one that actually gives them the little plus for a try and actually accept the risk to go there for better rewards. It's far more players getting in to low sec than whatever number leaves because they can't tank gates more than a few seconds.

Serious pirates and good low sec players already stated this change will not change their way of low sec living, just change some tactics.
The real problem will be something else: the roaming gangs and *gudfights* at gates (notice the difference) and the aggression system making so they can't loot the field and so make profits out of their activity.

What are you proposing?
I have one of proposal but not sure you're going to like it, take gate guns away and let bombs+bubbles be used in low sec.

Is your problem solved now?


brb
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-08-03 22:19:18 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
Cyprus Black wrote:
Finally!
Trade can finally come to lowsec.
Players can enter in ship sizes larger than frigates.
EVERY lowsec access point will no longer be permacamped.
Corporations now have a legitimate reason to live in lowsec.
Miners and explorers now have an acceptable margin of risk.
The most unbalanced risk/reward area of space is finally seeing balance.
PI can really take off now.
Corporations are more inclined to moon mine lesser materials.
There will be a massive influx of players for pirates to shoot at.

Finally! The most neglected aspect of this game is finally starting to receive love. You bitter vets who hate change of any kind, you're welcome to cancel all five million of your accounts. The game will be changing and your inability/unwillingness to adapt is your own fault. Good riddance.


Your an idiot, plan and simple. You don't know how to fly. PERIOD. Trade happens all the time. I fly an impel through lowsec and have never, ever lost it. What? You think the folks I shoot at wouldn't love to pop it? I live off of PI. That fact that ccp is favoring the likes of you is disgusting and repulsive. Learn to scout, learn to bookmark, learn to use the directional scanner. The reason why 90% of you losers die in lowsec is because you don't even try. You don't even give this game the respect wow raiders give warcraft. At least they go and look up how to do something rather than going in blind. Your an embarrassment to all of us and you dont even know it. Once upon a time this game was all about being CHALLENGED. Not having it handed to you. Thus, everything meant more. Hell, there was a time when there were no tutorials at all. You had to figure it out. YOU never would have made it out of the station.

CCP your job is not to protect anyone! SANDBOX hello!! Throw them in the fire and let god sort them. Thats the roots of EVE online. Now all the spoiled little brats are taking over including this CCP clown. Its lowsec, its lawless, THAT is the point. You want security go to null and make it yourself or stay your butt in highsec. You wanna fight, come to my hood.

...and you ..you sniveling little. keep you dirty little, short sighted, numb-skull 'ideas' off my game. Keep messing with it and you will loose money. I got years in this. And if you ban me or anyone eles for giving it to you straight then this game deserves to fail.


....oh and /signed!



Well, there's one small piece of the problem right there and then in all it's glorious text form.
Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#178 - 2012-08-03 22:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
same old bottle of *I don't want risk*


Nothing you argue from the beginning shows low sec will be worst, you keep complaining and talking about null and your glorious null sec experience yadayada, it's ok, so lets move on and try to stick to the real problem you're making: low sec will die !

Why? -because you rage quit with the few actually thinking like you just like the guy above?

Bah, let's admit for a second because of this change at least 15% of high sec population (many already lived in null/low/wh's) finds thins change finally the one that actually gives them the little plus for a try and actually accept the risk to go there for better rewards. It's far more players getting in to low sec than whatever number leaves because they can't tank gates more than a few seconds.

Serious pirates and good low sec players already stated this change will not change their way of low sec living, just change some tactics.
The real problem will be something else: the roaming gangs and *gudfights* at gates (notice the difference) and the aggression system making so they can't loot the field and so make profits out of their activity.

What are you proposing?
I have one of proposal but not sure you're going to like it, take gate guns away and let bombs+bubbles be used in low sec.

Is your problem solved now?




no professor....scroll up. its not about just looting the fights. Its the fact that all of you are too lazy to figure it out. It is not that hard to survive and succeed in lowsec. People are lazy. This favors that laziness, which shouldn't be a core value of a 'sandbox'. YOU don't want to die....how sad for you. Most of the pirates you are so afraid of started as noobs to pvp and THEY figured it out. And what do we get for our hard work, nerfed into nothing. The reason there aren't a lot of fights off gate is people know better, not mechanics. There is nothing wrong with lowsec as it is. You kids slip through all the time...some of you don't. As it should be.

This change takes away our freedom as players and forces us to pvp in an arena like enviroment. The folks that compare this to a 'wow' like change are right on. leave the guns alone and learn to scout. Use Dotlan, use the ingame map and most of all understand there are risks. If you want to 'Improve' lowsec make the guns track like every other gun and increase the rewards from anoms and sites.

As far as flagging....make the timers reflect who your flagged by, what for and give them seperate timers that don't overlay. They also should reset properly which they don't always do.
Zarian Uphius
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#179 - 2012-08-03 22:30:56 UTC
Next on the list of changes will be gate guns in nullsec that fire on pirates
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#180 - 2012-08-03 22:41:45 UTC
Zarian Uphius wrote:
Next on the list of changes will be gate guns in nullsec that fire on pirates




Those are players but actually no one cares you're -10, +5 or 1000 = Not Blue Shoot It Lol

brb