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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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L1m9n1663r
Doomheim
#441 - 2011-10-10 20:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: L1m9n1663r
- When a ship can not be sensor boosted or tracking disrupted, it should not be possible to remote sensor boost or tracking link.
It makes no sense at all.

If you make cap size rigs, that should solve the issue with EHP without touching the numbers.
Make shield extender rigs and Armor extender rigs take 200 rig-power-thingies, so you then lose 1 rig slot if buffer tanking.
Make cap rigs only T1, that means tanked damage type HP * 1,15^2 instead of HP * 1,2^3. This will help for the HP's.

(Give the Hel some love first)

Destroy all T1 rigs in titans / supercaps (LOL-T1 rigs)
Make all T2 rigs the T1 cap size.
Any rigs that exeed the rig-power, eject rig in slot 3 to cargo bay.
--

Make a rig that takes 150 rig power that will allow you to field 250 m3 of HEAVY drones. That is, sentries, heavy armor/shield bots, heavy EW drones. This will again cost you 15% of your 'tanked' HP buffer. That means your SC will have 70% less shield if you want to field 20 regular drones.

--
Throw the Super pilots a bone...
Make Supercaps and Titans dockable at stations with a SUPER CAP UPGRADE mod. This mod should cost 100 billion isk, and it should be impossible to board a super-cap if the station fitting services are offline. Undocking super caps should do so with 0 CAP and all high slots offline. Gives people a reason to own some space.

--

Remove 1 gun / turret from each Titan.
Remove DD.

Make a titan sitting at a CUSTOM OFFICE, tapping into its coordinate flux power generator able to start a 5 min 2 way bridge to another titan within 3-5 AU, at another CUSTOM OFFICE. (able to run freighters through)

Give Amarr titans a 50km radius energy neutralizing field that triggers every 30 seconds while in 'enforcer mode' (as in, stuck there for 75 seconds) neuting like a medium neut, not stackable with other amarr titans.

Give Minmatar titans a 50km web-field. (not stackable with other minmatar titans) while in 'enforcer mode'.

Give Caldari titans a 25 km cloaking field, that will cloak any ship moving slower than 30 m/s and not targetting anyone. while in 'enforcer mode'.

Give Gallente titans a 40 km radius warp disruption field (same as large T2 bubble) with a scramble strength of 1. while in 'enforcer mode'.


Make Gallente and Minmatar able to trade eachothers Enforcement mods by use of a 200 power rig. (and Amarr / Caldari)
Malzra
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#442 - 2011-10-10 20:24:55 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
ScheenK wrote:
removing the focused dd would change alot, no longer will caps get insta'd in the beginning of the fight, and dreads will play the role they are intended for

bring back AOE dd, with shorter range, remain on field for 10mins and have an hourly cycle

ehp removal was not needed, you buffed the ehp on captials because it was needed now your taking it away when its needed most




So how will 18 titans on field, all using AoE DD one after the other affect the battle?


Make capitals immune to area DD and you get dead titans.
ToXicPaIN
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#443 - 2011-10-10 20:25:22 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
ToXicPaIN wrote:
ScheenK wrote:

ehp removal was not needed, you buffed the ehp on captials because it was needed now your taking it away when its needed most




it is only 10month ago were CCP give the Moms the EHP boost .. and now you take it away ??
why ??

! CCP answer !


Cause they did it wrong... Roll. Or you think the ship is actually balanced ? 100MShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked EHP



today you can take down a SC with about 50Hurricans in less then 10minutes ...
with the patch you only need 5minutes
Adunh Slavy
#444 - 2011-10-10 20:25:25 UTC
Mostly look pretty good to me except dreads loosing their drones. 100m3 at least IMO.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#445 - 2011-10-10 20:25:26 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
ToXicPaIN wrote:
ScheenK wrote:

ehp removal was not needed, you buffed the ehp on captials because it was needed now your taking it away when its needed most




it is only 10month ago were CCP give the Moms the EHP boost .. and now you take it away ??
why ??

! CCP answer !


Cause they did it wrong... Roll. Or you think the ship is actually balanced ? 100MShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked EHP



It'll also be ~2 years since the super buff in Dominion when these changes come into effect.
L1m9n1663r
Doomheim
#446 - 2011-10-10 20:26:29 UTC
ToXicPaIN wrote:

today you can take down a SC with about 50Hurricans in less then 10minutes ...
with the patch you only need 5minutes


No you don't.
Spartan dax
0utbreak
#447 - 2011-10-10 20:27:22 UTC
Anile8er wrote:
Daedalus II wrote:
If we look at fighters from the perspective of fighters instead of carriers, we could ask ourselves; what use will they have now?

* For ships that can use FBs they are worse in every way (can't hit smaller ships, makes less damage than FBs against larger ships), so they aren't going to be used there.
* For ships that can't use FBs (i.e. carriers) they are also useless because they can't hit the smaller targets that the carrier itself might survive, and they don't make a dent in larger targets, which the carrier will die against anyway.

So what are they supposed to be used for? Ratting carriers with dual TPs?


This wouldn't be the first time a Dev from CCP, who clearly doesnt play EVE, has supported the use of target painters as a main stay fit on capital ships.


Well, I just think we've found a proper bonus for the Hel. Job done.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#448 - 2011-10-10 20:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Callic Veratar wrote:
A base of 27% vs battleships sounds about right to me. Have a Hyena or Rapier fly with you and and it should be back up near full damage.
Fun fact: the best result in such a situation would not be to TP the battleship, but to web the fighters… Big smile
Anile8er wrote:
This wouldn't be the first time a Dev from CCP, who clearly doesnt play EVE, has supported the use of target painters as a main stay fit on capital ships.
…the difference being that last time, it was supposed to be used against ships that couldn't be painted — in this case, they can. So no, it's not quite the same thing.
Camar
Zappy Bois
#449 - 2011-10-10 20:29:46 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Camar wrote:
David Carel wrote:
0.008 with 4x Serpentis Tracking Link, 0.009 with 2x Serpentis TC, both with Tracking Speed.

But you can't always cynoout (cap <70%), and you have reduced neut resistance. Hell yeah.

lol faction TC


Your alliance's pilots use them all the time, at least the guys with dead titans did.

Our pilots used them all the time. With meta guns out and more people trained to fly blap titans I would wager most of our titan pilots have more isk in midslots than most people have in their supercarrier+fit combined. .009 is half of what I get in blap fit. And as far as cap fit goes, I don't plan on jumping in to just jump right back out unless I'm travel fit.
ToXicPaIN
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#450 - 2011-10-10 20:29:46 UTC
L1m9n1663r wrote:
ToXicPaIN wrote:

today you can take down a SC with about 50Hurricans in less then 10minutes ...
with the patch you only need 5minutes


No you don't.


oh sorry it was a titan not a SC

and it takes 12minutes with 44Hurricans and cyclones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q97pyRfzztQ

check this
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#451 - 2011-10-10 20:30:57 UTC
I love you, CCP.

Too bad I don't have the ability to have your babies >.>

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Haseo Smith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#452 - 2011-10-10 20:31:40 UTC
Kuhn Arashi wrote:
Question:

Now that Dreads and Titans do not have drone bays, will the need for Capital drone bay parts be needed in their construction?
If not, you just made capital ships a little cheaper, by how much I don't feel like calculating.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Concern: Fighter resolution.

Understandable that you want to limit Supercarrier effectiveness against subcaps. However In the same blog you said we should bring carriers to deal with subcaps.

I know that carriers can still use smaller drones, but those are easily taken out with smartbomb blobs from the supers the subcaps are supporting, and easily taken out with a bomber run.

Carriers main weapons should still be fighters, and fighters deployed from carriers should be able to fight battleships at the very least. If this does not occur when these changes are put out, carriers will be resigned to supporting supercaps as rep fleet instead of supporting subcap and dread fleets.





Aside from the Fighter nerf affecting carriers that everyone else has brought up
His first point is pretty valid.

Are we gonna need the capital drone bay parts/PBO's anymore for those hulls?

and if not will they be replaced with more parts of another category to keep the costs roughly the same?

or are gonna have cheaper dreads and titans?
Nye Jaran
Doomheim
#453 - 2011-10-10 20:32:02 UTC
Why do you hate my Thanny CCP? As other's have suggested, make the fighter tracking a role penalty for Supers, not a change to fighters in general.
Callic Veratar
#454 - 2011-10-10 20:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
Tippia wrote:
Fun fact: the best result in such a situation would not be to TP the battleship, but to web the fighters...


True, but you'd need 20 webs vs 1 painter.
Zarian Uphius
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#455 - 2011-10-10 20:32:27 UTC
Why nerf fighters and destroy normal carriers all at the same time?

-You already limited Supers to having to chose between FighterBombers and Fighters. So if they jump in to kill caps they will not be effective vs SubCaps and vice-versa. So if you go in with 20 FBs and 5 Fighters sub caps really have nothing to be afriad of.

The changes are not bad but nerfing fighters just seems to screw ALL carriers over. Sicne when can fighters not shoot little stuff?

Maybe we should rename fighters to FighterBombers and the current FBs to TorpedoBombers.


-Also, way to completly miss why dreads were not used in combat, nice timer change but it ends there for dreads.

-Titans tracking is still entirly to high when boosted.


All in all to fix your fix...return fighters to their original stats and give dreads better tracking while reducing the titans ability to get ******** tracking.


Titans = Awesome at everything
SC = Sov/cap shooting only
Dread = Sov shooting only
Carrier = pointless since it will still die within 1 min of entering triage
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#456 - 2011-10-10 20:32:51 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Akara Ito wrote:

If only Jumpf Freighters could jump as far as Supercaps and carry a lot of FBs in their cargohold to restock them between engagements.

Evelopedia wrote:
Jump Freighters have a base jump range of 5 Light Years.
Motherships have a base jump range of 4 Light Years.
Titans have a base jump range of 3.5 Light Years.


While I can understand that you honor the traditions of WIdot badposting please go back and read the post I have replied to in order to understand what I tried to point out
Thanks in advance.
Aerious
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#457 - 2011-10-10 20:33:21 UTC
Thank you CCP, you have saved me 50b isk in 2 super caps + fit, i am so glad i didn't train up for a titan, i would so p1553d off with the upcoming nerf.

Any suggestions what i can do with my glorified wheelbarrow's? A chimera + thanatos!

WTS: 1x WYVERN + 1x NYX BPC packs.

"They worried we would eventually offer not just vanity items, but ones that would give the Haves an unfair advantage over the Have-Nots."
Daedalus II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2011-10-10 20:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus II
Tippia wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
A base of 27% vs battleships sounds about right to me. Have a Hyena or Rapier fly with you and and it should be back up near full damage.
Fun fact: the best result in such a situation would not be to TP the battleship, but to web the fighters… Big smile

I don't know what is most ridiculous; the fighter nerf or our ways to undo it :p

In all honesty I think this fighter nerf feels like the typical CCP misstake of trying to nerf something without looking at it from all sides and then end up to nerf something completely different 20 times more. This is stuff that would have been shoot down on the forums within seconds, had a normal player suggested it, but somehow it goes through several, if not all levels of CCP checks.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#459 - 2011-10-10 20:33:37 UTC
My hat is off to you, CCP Tallest, and thank you VERY much for all these changes. They have been sorely needed for years and while I don't agree with all of them, I certainly think that many of the changes are great!

A couple of the concerns have already been mentioned, particularly how the change in Sig resolution will affect standard Carriers and if all E-war will be unable to affect supercaps.. including beneficial ones like Tracking links. I also am very glad to see that this is just the beginning and that you are willing to make necessary adjustments while in testing. I can't ask for any more than that.

Kudos to you sir, and don't let the pilots who whine like little spoiled girls bring you down. Don't let the illogical and non-sensical arguments of those who think that supercarriers should be solo ships make you fret. Most have forgotten that the original intent of Supercarriers was meant that an entire alliance would have maybe 2 or 3 total. Think of those people merely as little fat boys and girls, who for years stuffed their cheeks with everyone else's candy and have become so obese from AFK'ing all the time that even a little actual interaction is too much for their poor, frail fingers.

They have long forgotten what it is like to live in Eve. I'm glad you have had the guts now to remind them.... painfully and with much fear.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#460 - 2011-10-10 20:33:42 UTC
dreads need more tracking, not shorter siege cycles.