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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

First post First post First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#481 - 2011-10-10 20:55:18 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Dreadnoughts still look underpowered, while the 5 minute siege mod is good, it basically gives them a higher chance of avoiding a fight, rather than of winning a fight. Their role now seems to be to act as bait to get a hostile supercap force to come out and play so you can counter-drop with a subcap fleet. Random crazy idea - siege mode makes a warp disruptor into a heavy-dictor-style focused infini-point?


A 9k DPS blaster moros seems pretty butch to me. It's essentially a 3 kilometer gank brutix.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

LiMu Bai
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#482 - 2011-10-10 20:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: LiMu Bai
As long as Doomsdays still hit for 3 mio Dmg, Dreads still will be useless (also carriers). Youre doing alot of efford to change Dreads, but as long as they can be zapped in one second, they remain absolutly useless.
Titanblobs of many dozens are quite common. And those numbers will even rise in future. So just think about it:
100 Dreads vs. 50 Titans.....Titans will DD 50 dreads @ cyno-in......10 mins later 2nd wave of DDs will kill the remaining ones....
Is this what you want?

You need to nerf the Dmg amount of DDs down to 1 million or something. To make Capitals viable again....just do it! Also a SC will just be able to tank like 5 DDs.....it will pop in 1 sec. Nerf DDs! If you dont change DDs, it will be a concealed titan buff.

Another thing is the planned fighter nerf...just let them as they are. It would hurt carriers also. Supercarries should be able to carry 1 set of bombers and one set of Fighters....otherwise theyre pretty pointless.

Rest of the changes are ok. Looks good so far. Think about the 3 Mio dmg DDs. You cant nerf HP and everything and let the DDs untouched. They need to go down! Also keep in mind that titans can still butcher subcaps with their guns: Tracking nerf!!
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#483 - 2011-10-10 20:57:20 UTC
I don't think it makes sense to have larger ships be *completely* defenseless against smaller ships. Even the largest, most specialized naval vessels have basic defenses against smaller threats.

At least make XL smart bomb modules or something for dreads and above.
Darkwilly
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#484 - 2011-10-10 20:59:19 UTC
Ok so theres lots of bitching and crying. Some people giving their 5cents. And some really good ideas out there. CCP has said they should be listening to their players so lets see if they do.

Supercarriers


"-Drone bay can only hold fighters and fighter bombers." Ok... How are we add a fighter bay and reduce the drone bay massivly?
Aeon, Revenant and Wyvern: 125000 (25 total Fighters + Fighter Bombers)
Hel and Nyx: 150000 (30 total Fighters + Fighter Bombers)

"-Reduce Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints on all Supercarriers by 20%." I can live with this.

"-Reduce drone capacity. " Ok, heres the smaller drone bays.
Aeon, Revenant and Wyvern: 875m3
Hel and Nyx:: 1000m3

Fighters

"-Increase signature resolution to 400" How about we dont nerf all the carrier pilots, since the problem is that super carriers do "too much damage" So lets make this only effect Fighter Bombers. And while were at it lets change how fighters orbit? maybe give them a little more range? Maybe fighter bombers can shoot towers? just a thought...

Dreadnoughts

"-Remove drone bay from all dreadnoughts." Why? so they can be even more glass cannons who no way to defend themselves? I know most real cap pilots have been in that spot where they are alone with no support available to them. its a crappy place to be in but you know that your drones save lives. So lets change this to -125 drone bandwidth while sieged. thats fair, just like the carriers lose their drones while in triage.

"-Siege Module I: Boost damage bonus from 625% to 700% to compensate for loss of drones." Perfect, this still works out just fine.

"-Siege Module I: Duration time reduced to 5 minutes. Fuel cost -50%." Thank you! we have wanted this for a long time.

"-Moros: Remove drone bonus." and "-Moros: New bonus: 5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret rate of fire per level." Thank you again! I could go into a rant about how my moros will cap out now and be useless, but i wont, I know theres changes comming to hybrid weapons and i trust that CCP wont screw us over. This change brings the moros more into line with the other dreads and i think everyone is happy about it.

Titans

"-Remove drone bay from all titans." i dont think this will have much impact on anything honestly.

"-Reduce Shield, Armor and Hull hitpoints by 20%." I wont go there. I know titans cost a ton of isk, and should be hard to kill. But i agree that the titan blob is a very un-fun way to play a game, for both sides.

"-Superweapon: Cannot shoot sub-capital ships." As much fun as it is to DD a cyno frig. I dont see how this change hurts the game at all.

Logoff timer

"-After a player logs out, there is a check for player aggression every 15 minutes. If you have been aggressed, the timer extends for 15 minutes; if you have not been aggressed, you disappear as before. Note: this is only for player aggression and will not change what happens when you log off during fights against NPCs."


This change has been needed for a long time. One of the first things i was told when i started to play this game was "If you cant afford to lose it, then dont fly it". And i think this should go for everyone. If you get deployed into a no-win fight, sorry but you are pooched, theres no saves in this game. Its not your fault, FCs make bad calls sometimes and you lose ships. But thats part of the game.

I know i'll get flamed and whatever. Dont care. This is my opinion and i am free to express it. Some others have been posting the same things i am saying. I am happy for that, if the devs read what we think and act on it then the system is working how it should. I wont threaten to kill my subs or bomb jita if they dont listen to us, but it think it only fair they have a chance to see what we want from this game.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#485 - 2011-10-10 21:00:02 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
chunorris wrote:
In 6 months, when this game will be ruined and goonswarm trololol CCP with his 150 dread fleet, you will rememer this devblog. Now, any 180 man hurricane fleet will kill a supercarrier fleet. That is not balance.

Quote:
Personally as a carrier owner I'd prefer to see the fighter nerf applied specifically on SCs and not on all carriers


Lol. Personally, i prefer dont touch anything about drones in supers but you know, start crying with 6000 friends and put a csm in your life and ccp will do everyting you want.




Excuse me sir, but the forums have taught me that the CSM is a completely powerless entity and that the Chairmanship is a title without meaning.

Try to keep up!



So you won't be seeking re-election or will you? Can I get a quote here please?

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#486 - 2011-10-10 21:00:28 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with fighters as they are - no matter if they're fielded from a Supercarrier or a Scrubcarrier.

Also Moros changes will take it out of line with other dreads, but then again, I don't really care - as long as I get easily chewed up by virtually any ship class on the field and get speedtanked by SCs, I'll keep my dread docked for another three years...


i was hoping for so much for dreads and this is what happens, my moros is even more worthless than now and dreads willl still get raped almost instantly by scaps.
not to mention carriers getting the shaft with the fighter changes..i mean carriers were so over powered and everyone was moaning about carriers right.
has this ccp tallest dude played eve. i mean the online game not the eve card game??

OMG when can i get a pic here

oprime
S0utherN Comfort
#487 - 2011-10-10 21:01:30 UTC
Don't know if this was mentioned yet. But can carriers get a EHP boost when in triage. Also a Cap boost or reduction in cap usage on reps would be nice. It would make Triage carriers more viable.

ATM when you use a triage carrier in combat it shocks the enemy at first. But then they just laugh at the users and pop it quickly or alpha it with a titan dooms day. The changes made to Triage last time were great but still not enough to make them viable.

Carrier and dread pilots are still too scared to use them in combat. Maybe allowing Dreads to be able to hit a Super doing more then 20m/s and a carrier to not get alpha by a white noise or raiden titan blob. That would be awesome.
Denuo Secus
#488 - 2011-10-10 21:02:37 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I don't think it makes sense to have larger ships be *completely* defenseless against smaller ships. Even the largest, most specialized naval vessels have basic defenses against smaller threats.

At least make XL smart bomb modules or something for dreads and above.


Then all Dreads would need an additional (pure) tool slot to fit it without gimping it's main purpose. Would give dreads some defence ability against smaller stuff (smart bomb or hvy neut) and at least some flexibility. I'd like it.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#489 - 2011-10-10 21:05:15 UTC
How were Dreads fixed exactly? Numbers were just moved around and they had functionality reduced.


Death to all supercaps!

Where I am.

Aurora Egnald
Doomheim
#490 - 2011-10-10 21:06:44 UTC
What we have going on here is the punsihment of the supercapital pilots espically supercarriers because they are too "versatile" and can defend themsleves. So CCP is bowing to the whishes of the isk poor pilots who cant afford a supercarrier themselves , or have been killed by one,so they whined until they got their way. It seems to me that of you spend billions of isk on a supercarrier it should have more capibility than a regular carrier. It should be able to field alot of drones and it shoudl be able to fend for itself. But noooooooo CCP bows to the will of the less fortunate and envious. Instead of buffing up the smaller ships they are going to harm the producers of eve by nerfing supercapitals. This is by far the worst idea in eve. Eve should be moving forward not backards. Dont nerf the supers but buff the regular caps and smaller ships.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#491 - 2011-10-10 21:07:09 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
yup ccp will make fighters useless vs a single bomb. 400 sig radius will mean a single bomb with vaporize them

imagine this 400 sig radius jumps to 2000 when the fighter is mwd'ing about

1 bomb will instapop them


HAHA! omg! =) dude u should just log onto eve account management and cancel ur account! do yourself, your eve fleetmates and your bank account all a favour.
Di Mulle
#492 - 2011-10-10 21:07:39 UTC
Needa3 wrote:


i'm glad some groups never disappoint. glad to see you are just one of those dicks hiding behind the safety of their internet connection but lacking the balls to actually stand up


Not sure what "not lacking the balls to actually stand up" would mean. Is that what you actually do ?
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
kralz
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#493 - 2011-10-10 21:07:45 UTC
xxxak wrote:
Update:

This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Other thoughts:

1) Nerfing fighters makes carriers even more crap. This was unnecessary.
2) Supercarriers should at least be able to carry 20 FB + 20 fighters
3) The removal of the drone bay is a nerf to small alliances who are more likely to use a small number of "ninja" supercarrier tactics. Now those supercarriers can get tackled and killed much more easily by even a small/medium gang of subcaps.
4) Huge alliances that can field huge fleets (super cap gang+proper sub cap fleet) will be even more powerful.
5) Supercarriers are no longer good for anything but shooting POS mods and Sov mods. LOL.

The nerf should have been as follows:
1) Fix logoffski timer
2) DD can only hit caps
3) Small EHP reduction for supercarriers

Those three fixes alone would have been enough to start.

Can some Dev explain the decision to not even let SC carry 20 fighters??

Actually, looking more at the fighter nerf.... what can they hit now? POS mods? LOL. Huge stealth carrier nerf. Care to explain this one as well?


well my super cap is now retired..yay shiny shiney trophy ship i never log in...hurray. why would i EVER drop it any where when i cannot shoot whoever is attacking me...sub caps can kill caps, but caps cannot hurt sub caps...effectively yes super caps online will be dead, but no one is gonna do anything with caps period, not when i can utterly wipe u whole cap fleet out with out fear and with out dropping my own caps....the whole cap field is wasted now.


one more time....attacking alliance drops supers to kill ihub, defending alliance counter attacks with a 50 or 70 abaddons and some hicters...supers all get bubbled. cant log/jump/warp or fight back point of capitals is now??...i guess i always wanted some place that could not get captured or reinforced when i am away from eve to store my expensive ships and bpos...thanks CCP, i always wanted a 28 billion isk garage and storage room.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#494 - 2011-10-10 21:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Aurora Egnald wrote:
What we have going on here is
…balancing. It's a good thing for everyone involved.
kralz wrote:
one more time....attacking alliance drops supers to kill ihub, defending alliance counter attacks with a 50 or 70 abaddons and some hicters...supers all get bubbled. cant log/jump/warp or fight back
Maybe they shouldn't have been such idiots then and brought some backup to kill those Abaddons and HICs.
Daemon Angel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#495 - 2011-10-10 21:09:23 UTC
Some very nice changes.
though i do hope u deside to change titan guns as well, as they are to overpowerd.

But a very nice step in the right direction.

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#496 - 2011-10-10 21:10:40 UTC
SC quote of the day.



"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.'"

-charles dickens


Nothing could have been written better for this moment.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Saki Sintora
Doomheim
#497 - 2011-10-10 21:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Saki Sintora
Too many changes at once. Poor EVE
Some kind of hyper-activism?!
inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
#498 - 2011-10-10 21:11:47 UTC
KayTwoEx wrote:
The problem about the dread is not that it deals too few damage but that the tracking in siege is so crappy that even supercapitals such as SCs and Titans can "speedtank" them. Fix that one please!


Also, tracking/damage ration is too good on titans, since they have no siege module and, therefore, no penalty. One titan can kill a battleship every few minutes during a fleetfight. Bring 20 titans and a meager support fleet and you can butcher a fleet 3 times your size without any problems (provided they don't have the balls to bring their own supers in).
ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
Dead Terrorists
#499 - 2011-10-10 21:11:56 UTC
While your on the road to making all these great changes, please remember to boost the deimosBlink

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#500 - 2011-10-10 21:13:05 UTC
kralz wrote:
xxxak wrote:
Update:

This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Other thoughts:

1) Nerfing fighters makes carriers even more crap. This was unnecessary.
2) Supercarriers should at least be able to carry 20 FB + 20 fighters
3) The removal of the drone bay is a nerf to small alliances who are more likely to use a small number of "ninja" supercarrier tactics. Now those supercarriers can get tackled and killed much more easily by even a small/medium gang of subcaps.
4) Huge alliances that can field huge fleets (super cap gang+proper sub cap fleet) will be even more powerful.
5) Supercarriers are no longer good for anything but shooting POS mods and Sov mods. LOL.

The nerf should have been as follows:
1) Fix logoffski timer
2) DD can only hit caps
3) Small EHP reduction for supercarriers

Those three fixes alone would have been enough to start.

Can some Dev explain the decision to not even let SC carry 20 fighters??

Actually, looking more at the fighter nerf.... what can they hit now? POS mods? LOL. Huge stealth carrier nerf. Care to explain this one as well?


well my super cap is now retired..yay shiny shiney trophy ship i never log in...hurray. why would i EVER drop it any where when i cannot shoot whoever is attacking me...sub caps can kill caps, but caps cannot hurt sub caps...effectively yes super caps online will be dead, but no one is gonna do anything with caps period, not when i can utterly wipe u whole cap fleet out with out fear and with out dropping my own caps....the whole cap field is wasted now.


one more time....attacking alliance drops supers to kill ihub, defending alliance counter attacks with a 50 or 70 abaddons and some hicters...supers all get bubbled. cant log/jump/warp or fight back point of capitals is now??...i guess i always wanted some place that could not get captured or reinforced when i am away from eve to store my expensive ships and bpos...thanks CCP, i always wanted a 28 billion isk garage and storage room.




Worst adventure time episode ever.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne