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My last rant to CCP

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InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-07-03 08:53:46 UTC
Obmud wrote:

My vocabulary is not extended enough to understand the word pubbies but i agree somewhat with most of what you wrote. My point is, or actually something that's worth discussing is: Should it be possible to mine safely in Highsec, just as it is safe to run Missions ? Or in other words, did CCP intend to make a place where it's perfectly safe to mine ? If not, then you're in most parts right.


Sandbox. "Should' is not important. If someone is making it unsafe, you either find somewhere else to do it, or find a way to deal with the threat.

Quote:

As a sidenote, i'm not a miner, and actually would recommend to remove Concord altogether, just to be clear on this, if you're talking about a REAL sandbox then remove any NPC restrictions. I just like to see the other side of the argument as well thats all, and i'm ready to be convinced by the opposite if i'm wrong. The style of arguments that most people in here use though shows clearly that they rather bang the wardrums and show their e-peen instead of having an interesting discussion.


I wasn't really aiming most of that at you specifically, sorry.

A police force like Concord does actually make sense. I'm not so thrilled with them being invincible, but I spend literally no time in high sec, so I don't really care either way.

As far as my argument, it simply boils down to "There is no "should" in Eve". Doesn't matter if highsec should be safe, it isn't. It isn't because a group of corps, using in game resources, have banded together with the intent of making it unsafe, and they are fully within their rights to do so. It is now on the people who take offense to this to muster their own forces and come make us stop.

I'll advertise it again, VFK-IV. Deklein. That's where we are. Most of the game hates us, so anyone should be able to form a massive alliance to come and take us out. Don't blame the WarDec mechanics, in null, you don't need to wardec anyone, just fly out here and start shooting. Your force should be far bigger than ours. It would be dead simple to drive us out of eve forever.

So come do it. Stop whining and take your game back.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-07-03 08:54:16 UTC
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.


You didn't read the OP I guess. He is complaining about being ganked and not about being unable to mine.

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Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#23 - 2012-07-03 08:54:20 UTC
Musashi IV wrote:
Being able to read my newspaper while peacefully mining is all I want to do.


Try SISI, it's consensual PVP only.
Luis Graca
#24 - 2012-07-03 08:54:25 UTC
Musashi IV wrote:

I dont give a fu.. how you players respond to this thread. In a few days all of you and EVE wont matter. In a few years EVE wont matter to the gaming community. It will be just another mmo that died a slow death.



I get tired of writing this but here goes again

If you don't care why are you posting?
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-07-03 08:55:15 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:
Right, and they should have to play the game within the same parameters we all do. They want to mine, they need to form a mining corp to do it for protection.


Might sound suprising, but not everybody are mindless zerglings nor are nerd enough to play in big enough corps to provide protection.



InternetSpaceship wrote:

Make a mining corp in low or null sec. There, you can preemptively strike without getting concorded. You can set up intel to warn you of threats and a station to dock up in.


Mining in low sec is completely stupid. It's same stuff of hi sec minus hi sec easy logistics (and concord).
Mining in 0.0 requires to join either some crappy old style alliance where they treat you like a piece of inferior meat or to join some external 3rd party community whose attitude is despised by many.

Finally,


InternetSpaceship wrote:
There is NO reason you can't do the same. None at all.


In order to do the same it's required to displace you from your place (soon you'll own all 0.0 so it'll be the only way). I don't see it being done for the foreseeable future.

Or a guy could consider joining you but then you are elitist enough to only allow SA members in. Who wants to torture themselves with that.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-07-03 08:56:19 UTC
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
I have to agree with the op.

He choose to be a miner, that's what eve is to him. If he has a quarter trillion isk he could do pretty much anything. The fact that People are destroying what eve means to him and others is something that ccp should take note of.

Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.


You see, in a sandbox, we do have that right. We are stronger. Yeah, he can play however he wants, but that does not mean we are obligated to let him if we don't want to. If he wants to stop us, he shouldn't whine to ccp, he should try playing the game for once and doing something about it.

Make a mining corp. Mine with others. Get security and intel. PLAY THE GAME.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-07-03 08:58:05 UTC
I just read James (which i highly think or thought of) article about the hatred against miners....

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40762

"They're guilty."

"A highsec miner is fundamentally going to inspire disgust. What they think, the way they feel about things, their attitudes, beliefs, all of it."

"Everyone knows that a highsec miner is motivated by greed. And not just a desire to gain, which could equally be attributed to the conquerors of nullsec"

"Not only is the highsec miner incapable of feeling anything, he's also incapable of valuing anything. "

I didnt expect to read such a low form of bigotry in eve ever. If this is what the majority thinks then good night. I'm really speechless, i took a break from the game for 2 years and now i'm reading all this filth about generalization and one sided arguments to justify pretty much anything.

As soon as i undock once a year to go mine a bit i'm falling into the category of a greedy, lowlife ******* that needs to be wiped out although normally i'm living in nullsec and dont care about mining at all. It seems as there is only 2 sorts of people. "us" and "the miners". Why dont we mark them in their portraits with a mining drill so we can shoot them on sight ?

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-07-03 09:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
Alaya Carrier wrote:


Might sound suprising, but not everybody are mindless zerglings nor are nerd enough to play in big enough corps to provide protection.


Tough ****. That's Eve. Playing solo is inherently more dangerous than playing in a group. Don't want to mine in a way that is going to be much safer? Fine, but don't whine when you get ganked. We are not obligated to allow everyone to play however they want. Don't like it, come get us.

Quote:

Mining in low sec is completely stupid. It's same stuff of hi sec minus hi sec easy logistics (and concord).
Mining in 0.0 requires to join either some crappy old style alliance where they treat you like a piece of inferior meat or to join some external 3rd party community whose attitude is despised by many.


So make your own 0.0 alliance and mine there. The ore in null IS far more valuable. This isn't some theory, lots of corps already do this. You just don't hear from them because they are in game mining and not bitching to CCP on the forums because they want to be invulnerable.

Quote:

In order to do the same it's required to displace you from your place (soon you'll own all 0.0 so it'll be the only way). I don't see it being done for the foreseeable future.
[/quote[

You said it yourself, nearly everyone hates us. An alliance of those people would absolutely dwarf ours. VFK-IV. Deklein. Come get us.

[quote]
Or a guy could consider joining you but then you are elitist enough to only allow SA members in. Who wants to torture themselves with that.


We do allow other people in, but we don't allow in every jackass who rolls up asking. That isn't elitism, that is screening, and like it or not, it is the key to a decent and stable alliance.

Hell, we aren't even that selective, we have TEST and widot, don't we?

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Obmud
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-07-03 09:03:39 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:


I wasn't really aiming most of that at you specifically, sorry.

A police force like Concord does actually make sense. I'm not so thrilled with them being invincible, but I spend literally no time in high sec, so I don't really care either way.

As far as my argument, it simply boils down to "There is no "should" in Eve". Doesn't matter if highsec should be safe, it isn't. It isn't because a group of corps, using in game resources, have banded together with the intent of making it unsafe, and they are fully within their rights to do so. It is now on the people who take offense to this to muster their own forces and come make us stop.

I'll advertise it again, VFK-IV. Deklein. That's where we are. Most of the game hates us, so anyone should be able to form a massive alliance to come and take us out. Don't blame the WarDec mechanics, in null, you don't need to wardec anyone, just fly out here and start shooting. Your force should be far bigger than ours. It would be dead simple to drive us out of eve forever.

So come do it. Stop whining and take your game back.


I took a break for 2 years and was also approached by Goon in a recruitment thread. While i wasnt really on top of things i wasnt aware at that point of the polarized hatred towards Goon in general and Miners (regardless now of highsec ganking). I could have easily joined because the recruiter was quite the nice guy.

Thats why i always become suspicious when people start to label a group of people of being this and that. Ok pirates DO gank lowsec gates, thats why they are pirates, they steal their stuff. Their role is a mere description of what they do, however the (justified or unjustified) hatred towards the Goons is exactly the same thing that the miners are now experiencing. It is therefore a bit ironic to hear from goons (i dont mean you in particular) that they cry for acceptance in their hatespeech against miners but also refuse any criticism towards their attitude when faced with hatespeech that targets them.

I hope you get my point, i really didnt take any side yet on the argument, i'm just saying, hatred is so easily spread in this game, its a very accurate Mirror of our real World in that sense.

Obmud wrote: I just thrive on forum drama. - by Riot Girl - at 2013.11.28 04:46:00

You should sig that, it will look good on you.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-07-03 09:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
Obmud wrote:

I took a break for 2 years and was also approached by Goon in a recruitment thread. While i wasnt really on top of things i wasnt aware at that point of the polarized hatred towards Goon in general and Miners (regardless now of highsec ganking). I could have easily joined because the recruiter was quite the nice guy.

Thats why i always become suspicious when people start to label a group of people of being this and that. Ok pirates DO gank lowsec gates, thats why they are pirates, they steal their stuff. Their role is a mere description of what they do, however the (justified or unjustified) hatred towards the Goons is exactly the same thing that the miners are now experiencing. It is therefore a bit ironic to hear from goons (i dont mean you in particular) that they cry for acceptance in their hatespeech against miners but also refuse any criticism towards their attitude when faced with hatespeech that targets them.

I hope you get my point, i really didnt take any side yet on the argument, i'm just saying, hatred is so easily spread in this game, its a very accurate Mirror of our real World in that sense.


Sorry again, I'm really aiming my answers at all highsec whiners, not you, you just bring up the points that make me think of them.

Also, goons as a whole usually don't care if we are accepted or not by the general Eve population. Anyone not blue is just an NPC to us, and who cares what NPCs think or do? Although sometimes, if you gank enough of their Hulks, they spew some pretty funny flavor text in local and through the mail.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-07-03 09:30:50 UTC
Colonel Xaven wrote:
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.


You didn't read the OP I guess. He is complaining about being ganked and not about being unable to mine.
AMD how can.he mine while being ganked.

Pog mo thoin

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-07-03 09:32:06 UTC
Pipa Porto
#33 - 2012-07-03 09:39:55 UTC
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
Colonel Xaven wrote:
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
Yes it's a sandbox but because it is one it gives him and others the choice to mine were ever and how they want. No one group should have the right to dictate how others play their game.


You didn't read the OP I guess. He is complaining about being ganked and not about being unable to mine.
AMD how can.he mine while being ganked.


Simple. Avoid being ganked and you can mine just fine.

You just can't do it AFK anymore. Sorry. Play the game you pay to play.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-07-03 09:44:32 UTC
Not defending the OP at all, nor the donkeys who cry on the forums but you assume too much about everybody's ability to forfeit their RL responsibilities for a game:


InternetSpaceship wrote:

Tough ****. That's Eve. Playing solo is inherently more dangerous than playing in a group. Don't want to mine in a way that is going to be much safer? Fine, but don't whine when you get ganked. We are not obligated to allow everyone to play however they want. Don't like it, come get us.


Tough ****. That's Real Life. As MMO players gets older so their obligations increase and their time decreases.

See, once upon a time there was a 500K subs game. It was bugged, servers crashed a lot, content was half made and graphics were absolutely behind the times.

Then one day somebody suddenly realized what I typed above and made the game enjoyable even by those who cannot waste half day in CTAs, farming and so on.
These days that game peaked at 14M subs. A business model that EvE should embrace (without the carebear part).
Else EvE will be the forever "could have been the massive universe but never made to more than 50k stable concurrent players" second class game.

Eve is built for 3M players, just look at how choppy and illiquid the markets are. Because too few are playing.


InternetSpaceship wrote:

So make your own 0.0 alliance and mine there. The ore in null IS far more valuable. This isn't some theory, lots of corps already do this. You just don't hear from them because they are in game mining and not bitching to CCP on the forums because they want to be invulnerable.


Not going to happen. People happen to have a life. "Making" a 0.0 alliance is easy, keeping it running is not. It's horrendously time consuming.


InternetSpaceship wrote:

You said it yourself, nearly everyone hates us. An alliance of those people would absolutely dwarf ours. VFK-IV. Deklein. Come get us.


You wrongly assume people care enough to bother. You need a motivated core of dedicated players with a lot of game knowledge to setup an alliance that would EVER have any hope to run against a Technetium fuelled endless empire.

There's neither motivated people any more nor leadership or charisma people able to aggregate many players under a common objective.

You indeed won EvE because of your efforts but also because all the others who cared quit and nobody are left to try.
Frying Doom
#35 - 2012-07-03 09:46:00 UTC
Sorry to loose you.

Yes EvE is a sandbox game but CCP is a business and they seem to operate on allowing the large alliances to get there own way. Much like BoB but now its Goonswarm, next will be???

Most of their subscriptions come from hi-sec and they will loose these slowly due to player dissatisfaction. I'm not saying I give a crap about hi-sec but a lot of people do. A lot more people care about Hi-sec than will ever give a crap about Null, maybe CCP should get management who know how to manage.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#36 - 2012-07-03 09:48:38 UTC
Miles Parabellum wrote:
A few friends and I decided to convert a bit of security standing into fun by trying out this apparently hilarious new trend among the young people of today: Suicide ganking.

So we loaded up some cheap T1-fitted catalysts and had a go at a mack sitting in belt with some friends and an orca.
As it turns out, as soon as we locked, the orca started shield repping and our catalysts died to concord, scoring zero kills.
When we warped our pods out, one of the miners wrote in local, "Lol, noob suiciders" - Or something to that effect.
That stung, badly.

So I guess it's not entirely impossible to defend a mining fleet, although two or three catalysts more might have tipped the scales. But still.
Rather humiliating experience, I must say.

The T1 catalyst is an excellent choice for group ganking. However, you found the classic "do not gank" target.

I would assume the mack had a big buffer tank against blasters, shield links and (as you noted) shield reps. Not a good target. Keep trying, you might find the classic Expanded Cargohold, Cargohold Optimization hulk and kaboom!

Make sure you have someone left to collect your own wrecks as well as loot the hulk and ideally salvage it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
pussnheels
Viziam
#37 - 2012-07-03 09:49:45 UTC
That was axactly the sort of ragequite they want to read well done OP you just inflated the goons already oversized ego

Next time. Mine smart mine sexy,
plenty of other places than a hiigh sec asteroid belt near a busy hub

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2012-07-03 09:52:08 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
That was axactly the sort of ragequite they want to read well done OP you just inflated the goons already oversized ego

Next time. Mine smart mine sexy,
plenty of other places than a hiigh sec asteroid belt near a busy hub

Sadly, I think the point of the post is that there won't be a next time.

I guess, well, that "250 billion" has been essentially removed from the econo-


Wait, you're leaving and you'll double anyone's isk that they send to you, right? I've heard this one.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-07-03 09:53:47 UTC
Please do not call ganking miners PvP, its called ganking miners
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-07-03 10:03:32 UTC
EvEa Deva wrote:
Please do not call ganking miners PvP, its called ganking miners


PvP = Player vs Player

Only exception: ganking botters.

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