EVE Information Portal

Except it makes nobodys life easier. I, or my corp mates, would buy someone a hulk just to get them to STFU about this RR idea... its not worth the pain of finding someone to be RR guy and splitting the profits with them just to counter the occasional gank.

You seem mad, bro.

The problem is that people aren't doing number 1 properly. They mine as normal then get mad and shit up the forums when they lose a ship. That's not accepting the losses. That's the opposite of accepting the losses.

This scares me a little. There's this great Role-By-Stats with the T1 barges, but then it gets messed around with for the T2 variants (I don't know what 'mentioned above' thing for the skiff is) with the exception of the hulk, which will still act as a direct upgrade from a covetor. That means that the 'direct upgrade' path for solo miners who found themselves using the Retriever because of its ore bay will find themselves in a hulk doing group ops as often as they can or in a Mackinaw mining ice. At least that's what I see people doing after the changes have been around for a while.

What I'm trying to get to is: We're looking at the Mackinaw and the retriever as solo mining ships. Is this implying that newer miners will have a mineral mining ship and older, T2 miners will have an ice mining ship for solo mining?

[Edit] It appears that my concerns have been noted earlier, about the fact that people mining particular kinds of materials will have their ships changed slightly, but the usage won't be changed. Nobody will ice mine n a Skiff because it doesn't have the bonuses, no merx mining in a mack and no ice mining in a hulk, which means that ice mining would be pushed towards solo play, ore mining towards group play and merx mining towards something in some direction I can't predict. Probably solo.

I personally support the ability for Exhumers to specialize while leaving them the option to not (allowing every exhumer hull to be an ice miner, deep core miner, or strip miner with differing base stats like hold tank and yield). A module, rig or 'subsystem' would be optimal, so the three base hulls could maintain their basic maxim of minmax or 'even distribution' while not pidgeonholing ice miners into the less-tanky-than-the-skiff-yet-less-yield-than-the-hulk ship and heavily penalizing anyone on the T2 end for wanting to have a different base hull and therefore different base stats.

I was hoping this update would hold hope for scaling role changes. I hoped it would bring a decent solo ship that would keep me from jetcanning without sacrificing all my tank and yield while having an anti-gank ship or full-yield friends abound ship on the T2 spectrum, but it looks like you're going to have this wonderful T1 lineup of barges that has this wonderfully diverse set of roles then that's all going to get thrown out of the window as roles get slapped arbitrarily onto ships that already have 'roles'.
To me, it's boring to have "This is the ice mining ship; it should be familiar because it's got medium tank, medium yield (How?? It's ice! How do you quantify that between ore? Apples, oranges!)" then to have "This is the Mercoxit mining ship, it should be familiar because it has a gynormous tank but very little yield (again, almost apples and oranges) and an average cargobay." then additionally to have "This is the only ship that maintains its link to its T1 variant. It's the Hulk, it mines lots of ore! It also has a small tank and small cargobay but makes up for it with its big yield! Just like an improved version of its T1 counterpart! (Might I add this is the only one that is a Direct Upgrade from its T1 variant?)"

TL;DR? I ramble, but I'm concerned that Barge -> Exhumer lacks direction and is arbitrary in the fact that it leaves the 'traditional' tier-based 'Specialization' on ships whose T1 hulls have been changed dramatically. Above is my thought process.
This also all revolves around the fact that CCP are grouping together Skiff/Procurer Mackinaw/Retriever Hulk/Covetor (when they describe tank/yield/cargo) as though they will operate to some similar extent, rather than them being two different classes of ships whose 'yields' are difficult to quantify against one another due to Mercoxit being different than the rest of the 12 other ores and ice being wholly different as a harvested resource.

EvE destroyers are more like the RL predecessor of Destroyers, the Torpedo boat. Small, cheap, hit's above their weight class, no tank.

Destroyers are pretty much ganky enough. (Plus, they're designed to be an anti-frigate ship, and Medium guns would be... less than beneficial for that role)

ships with über-gank always seem cool. but those medium weapon destroyerswould make the mining ship revamp obsolete.

but i like the idea of a supporting dessi which is somehow able to conter cloaky ships, or provides rr for frigate roams and or is for point defence and makes the defender missiles a thing worthwhile.
should be a dessi with low or none weapons though.

Just because they have terms in common doesn't mean they're alike. I think stealth bombers and other Covops cloakies make a decent analogy for Subs.

RL Torpedo boats weren't all that small. I'm talking the late 19th, early 20th Century ones, not the WW2 Patrol Torpedo boat (which are more like frigates).

EvE destroyers do really have 2 roles. Their anti-frigate role and their gank role. Their ganking role is a lot like Torpedo boats (lots of offense, little to no defense), while their anti-frig role is kind of like the role of a modern destroyer (which is kind of to shoot the little things that the bigger ships have inadequate defenses against).

Yeah, when you said Torpedo Boat I was thinking of the PT boats.....like the one that got shot out from under JFK.


If my idea were to be seriously considered and CCP did make an anti-stealth destroyer, it would be one of the new ones they were talking about.....likely a tech 2. Considering that all dedicated stealth ships are T2, it only makes sense they a ship designed to track them is also T2. Such a ship would need several bonuses, making it need to be T2 anyway.

As a result, the normal destroyers would stay roughly as they are, and as you described.

Last module could be the one giving you 1 2 3 or maybe 4 stripmininglasers depending on the module with drawbacks/advantages. Or ability to add an highsot to use with a mindlink or something.

I was thinking about the T2 bonuses to merc, ice and bulk mining, and how it's not clear how these bonuses will overlap with the re-envisaged ship types.

Why not make role bonus rigs?

So you want to modify your hulk for ice mining with a larger fleet, fit some ice mining rigs.

You want your small, well tanked Ret / Mac for merc mining in an 0.0 grav site? Fit a rig that grants the current Skiff role bonus.

That way, ships can retain their basic role, as re-envisage, but you can tailor your ship to the minieral types you mine most often.

Just saying.
/JTK

Stealth edit - You'll realise I don't read everything in long threads, and if this has been suggested, I'm just echoing my support.