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New [scratch] Tiericide the T1 Battlecruisers.

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2011-10-07 07:14:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Tyme Xandr wrote:

#3) Tier 1 BC's are all broken. Prophecy is a tank with little other ability, Cyclone is a PVE ship that cant fit itself correctly. Ferox is a joke, Brutix is a glass cannon.


Seeing http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2428 and constantly getting this:

bongpacks wrote:
Neuts in C2 space are almost non-existant for the regular anomalies save for a couple frigates here and there and one neuting BS in data sanctuaries. The mag and radar sites have a bit more neuts. Passive drake can do this without a prop mod, do a hair more DPS and not die even if it manages to get capped out.


I think that it is clear. Drakes are over powered.

Scan the system? -> 5 M
Salvaging and hacking? -> 100 M
Living in the system? -> 1 500 M
For everything else -> there is a Drake.


Proposed changes

Low Slots - 3

Med Slots - 6

High slots - 8
Launchers - 6
Turrets - 4

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles per level
Medium Hybrid Blaster specialisation: 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to shield resistance per level.

Alternatives

Cyclone

Low slot 5 OR Med slot 6 (either a little boost in damage or a better tank.

Brutix

Additional med slot for propulsion, tracking computer or more cap.

- - -

Zagdul wrote:
I think Drakes are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game and that the other races need to have looking at.

The hurricane is probably the closest in terms of equally balanced however the other two races are in dire need of looking at.

Gallente need blasters to work properly and the Harbi could use a larger CPU grid.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#2 - 2011-10-07 07:28:32 UTC
Wrong forum section dude, Developer blue bars only monitor Features and Ideas discussion thread. The blue bars here are only trollers lol.

And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side..

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#3 - 2011-10-07 07:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Renan Ruivo wrote:
And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side..


Lol

Actually, you can discuss something for general opinion before you take it to the serious forum. Blink

Quote:
There is three ships and they neut, so the OP wants the whole ship nerfed


No. It is the clearest indicator that brought this to my attention.
What is the best battle cruiser by far than any other?
Most damage? Some hurricanes, some harbingers, all good drakes because they only use one or two weapons of a set size.
Biggest tank? Drakes.

So they are top for damage, top for tank and can pull off a really good passive tank.

That extra mid slot is exponentially better.

(Tangent note: You can fit Large and X-large shield boosters to battle cruisers but have you ever tried to fit a Large armour repair to one?
Duel rep? Oops there goes another low slot that the shield tanks don't have to pay!)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-07 07:47:26 UTC
Dear OP.

Wormholes.. C2....

Wormholes go up to C6.

Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get......

Let me give you a hint - you'll be in a pod before you can scream "oh ****"


It may be that you've spent all you're eve-time in a C2 wormhole. There is alot, ALOT more in the eve universe, and the Drakes and other pretty ships in game arnt overpowered because you take a Ferrari to a go-cart race. A C2 is meant to be incredibly easy, as like the C1 - its designed to introduce you to wormholes and the mechanics of them. IE - new players that can only fly a frig or cruiser = the difficulty of a C1/C2 is PERFECT for them.

If you need a challenge, move to a C3.


Also, Blasters/Hybrids are Gallente. Drake is Caldari.


And, you're mastercard/drake skit failed miserably, it makes no sense and is not teh funnies. Please try again.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#5 - 2011-10-07 07:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Also the Ferox and Rokh are Gallente ships.
They just look like they are Caldari.
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#6 - 2011-10-07 08:00:19 UTC
Even in a C3 you really need to know what you are doing to solo some of the sleeper sites.

Never forget you have other people that get connected to the hole you could be running sites in, wait for the opportune moment (such as when you finish killing the last sleeper) and come in and blast you.

Yes Drakes have an amazing tank and I enjoy flying mine, but that doesn't mean they are indestructible or over powered.
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2011-10-07 08:12:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Wrong forum section dude, Developer blue bars only monitor Features and Ideas discussion thread. The blue bars here are only trollers lol.

And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side..


I'll pretend I didn't see it. P

Still, this thread is more suitable for this forum section rather than EVE General Discussion.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Jenshae Chiroptera
#8 - 2011-10-07 08:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Cypermethren wrote:

Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get......
.

Wrong

Corp mate's ship

- 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (I don't know why he isn't using Meta)
- 1x Drone Link Augmentor
- 2x Large Shield Extender II
- 3x Shield Recharger
- 1x Invulnerability Field II
- 4x Shield Power Relay II
- 3x Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
- 5x Hobgoblin II

As you can see a pretty horrible fit. He does Druze solo. I have just tried to help him in the C3 and had to keep warping in and out. I agree it should take a battle ship or a T3. He stayed in, didn't break a sweat and did way more damage than I did.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Gempei
Marvinovi pratele
#9 - 2011-10-07 08:20:53 UTC
Do you fly a Drake? I guess no. Drake is not overpowered and passive tank has high price (using all rig slots, low slots and mid slots for tank, crap dps, high need for skills).
Jenshae Chiroptera
#10 - 2011-10-07 09:24:20 UTC
1444 volley is nothing to be sniffed at.

Here:

Drake 1 & Drake 2

[Drake, Kill them all]
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Medium Shield Booster II
Target Painter II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5

...................

[Drake, Passive standard]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5


Cyclone

[Cyclone, Alternative for: Cyclone C1/C2 WH]
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hammerhead II x4

Drake 1

296 / 352 (vamp means it won't run dry)
443 DPS / 1355 volley (EFT)

Drake 2

799 / 799 constant defence
225 DPS / 1444 volley (EFT)

Cyclone

119 / 590 (tank sacrifice and has to pulse it, so can't sustain)
389 DPS / 579 Volley
__________________________

So ... the first Drake does way more damage and the second drake has way more tank. The first Drake will probably have more tank over time than the Cyclone.

















P.S. Did you notice it was a Dread Guristas tank?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
cornholio508
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-10-07 11:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: cornholio508
Gempei wrote:
Do you fly a Drake? I guess no. Drake is not overpowered and passive tank has high price (using all rig slots, low slots and mid slots for tank, crap dps, high need for skills).


Sorry but yes DRAKES ARE OVERPOWERED . Every other races bc's are extremely weak when it come to comparing them with drakes . A drake can do just as much dps as other races battleships and can also if fitted properly have way more ehp than them as well .

A friend in my alliance has a drake that does 1000dps per volley and a passive tank that gives him 113,000 ehp . My faction fitted navy apoc with a omni tank of 85% resists and 1000 dps per volley and a 90,000 ehp on the other hand still doesnt come close to the drake . Since amarr ships only have 2 damage types that is reduced depending on races we fight in missions . It takes less time to be efficient in a drake and a drake can solo lvl4 missions . However other races usually have to go t3 ships or go for battle ships since their battle cruisers are only useful in close quarters and pvp , and have serious capacitor issues along with bad tanks .

To make things worse you dont even need to target anything . Get some fov ammo and away you go if you get jammed . The drake itself has an unfair advantage over every other races battle cruisers and is overpowered when compared to them .
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-07 12:05:50 UTC
I think Drakes are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game and that the other races need to have looking at.

The hurricane is probably the closest in terms of equally balanced however the other two races are in dire need of looking at.

Gallente need blasters to work properly and the Harbi could use a larger CPU grid.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-07 12:52:26 UTC
cornholio508 wrote:
A drake can do just as much dps as other races battleships and can also if fitted properly have way more ehp than them as well .


Uh, no.

Quote:
A friend in my alliance has a drake that does 1000dps per volley and a passive tank that gives him 113,000 ehp . My faction fitted navy apoc with a omni tank of 85% resists and 1000 dps per volley and a 90,000 ehp on the other hand still doesnt come close to the drake.


Because we know your Apoc doesn't shoot faster than a Drake, right?

tl;dr you are bad at this. Stop.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#14 - 2011-10-07 12:53:00 UTC
[Drake, Drake direct compare]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I

Hobgoblin II x5



Dread Gurista Drake, as close to the Cyclone as possible.

427 DPS / 485 OH
91 / 859 DPS defence
60 000 eHP
EM - 80%
Kn - 81%
Th - 82%
Ex - 84%

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#15 - 2011-10-07 13:08:50 UTC
If there is going to be anything done involving a "New Drake" I suggest a T2 Drake (which for you smart enough to catch on, would also mean T2 Hurricane, Myrmidon and Harbinger).

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#16 - 2011-10-07 13:18:54 UTC
great drake fits

which can be permatanked with flycatcher
good job

keep it going dont lose the track there, you're definetly getting into it
Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2011-10-07 13:30:40 UTC
Laechyd Eldgorn wrote:
great drake fits
Twisted

Pity I won't use any of them.

Last one in case someone wants to try it for me

[Drake, Shield tank T2]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Domination Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Domination Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I

Hobgoblin II x5


Even with the Invulnerability and the Dread Booster, I figure that it is a heck of a lot cheaper than a Tengu and not so far from the bottom to mid level ones.

Stable at 98%
Lasts 2 min on the booster
485 DPS OH
56 950 eHP
86 / 761 DPS defence with 960 OH

79 - 82% resists

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#18 - 2011-10-07 13:50:16 UTC
Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Quark Valhala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-07 15:05:44 UTC
Get back on track.
Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank
A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range.

In a Drake load kinetick missels and win.

+1 for nerf of drake (dont make this game Drake online)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#20 - 2011-10-07 15:22:10 UTC
So just to be clear, you want to balance the Drake (a Caldari ship) around PvE?

Priorities man. Priorities.
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