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New [scratch] Tiericide the T1 Battlecruisers.

First post
Author
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-10-07 15:26:17 UTC
Adapt or die crybabys
Jenshae Chiroptera
#22 - 2011-10-07 15:59:40 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury?


Armour damage. Sleepers only have armour and hull. No shields.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#23 - 2011-10-07 16:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ingvar Angst
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury?


Armour damage. Sleepers only have armour and hull. No shields.


I'd have to see numbers... I thought they were omni-tanked regardless. You're saying it's worth giving up the kinetic bonuses Drakes have?

Ah, here's what I was looking for:

Quote:
Damage Types
Sleepers do omni damage. Missiles do two types and their lasers do the other two types. This means you will need to set up your ship for balanced resists.

Tentative Sleeper resists: Armor is 70/70/70/70 with Structure being 0/0/0/0.



On the surface, I'd say you're better off keeping the bonuses you get for kinetic.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-07 16:34:27 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
If there is going to be anything done involving a "New Drake" I suggest a T2 Drake (which for you smart enough to catch on, would also mean T2 Hurricane, Myrmidon and Harbinger).


Those are called Command ships
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-10-07 16:41:46 UTC
Drakes are very good at pve, they're ok at pvp, if your battleship can't take one though you're doing something wrong
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2011-10-07 17:07:20 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:


Quote:
Damage Types
Sleepers do omni damage. Missiles do two types and their lasers do the other two types. This means you will need to set up your ship for balanced resists.

Tentative Sleeper resists: Armor is 70/70/70/70 with Structure being 0/0/0/0.



On the surface, I'd say you're better off keeping the bonuses you get for kinetic.


I am not going to go into the technical on this with graphs and such. I don't know which is better for a Drake. For a Cyclone, the Havocs are better:

Base Shield Damage - 76.8
Base Armour Damage - 172.8

Scourge
Base shield Damage - 115.2
-(default for people as it is an all round missile but sleepers have no shields)
Base Armour Damage - 144.0

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#27 - 2011-10-07 17:07:50 UTC
Ugh. double post tired.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#28 - 2011-10-07 19:25:09 UTC
Show me the numbers:
Mr Peanut420 wrote:
For September 2011 on evekill

Rank Ships Kills
1 Hurricane 151381
2 Drake 117878
...
Reference: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=121909

I'm sorry, while I know the Drake is the second most flown ship after the Hulk, it is not the iWinButton. Since fewer Hurricanes are flown than Drakes, but the kills are higher, that really shows the power of each ship.

The number of Drakes flown shows one thing: Caldari ships are still popular. Caldari space is the most populated. There are more Caldari than any other race. Changing the Drake will not change any of this.

The Drake is fine. Go fly a Hurricane.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#29 - 2011-10-07 21:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Just a few things for the OP

Yes a Drake can tank like you wouldn't believe, but you sacrifice firepower to do it, btw a shield Mrym can out tank the Drake.

Volley damage is not DPS, standard cycle on a missile launcher is between approx 8 & 10 seconds, divide volley damage by rate of fire for DPS (the clue is in the acronym, Damage Per Second)

The kinetic damage bonus on the Drake generally means that, unless whatever you're shooting at is specifically tanked against kinetic damage, you're better off sticking with scourge or scourge fury missiles. Sleepers are not specifically tanked against kinetic, in fact they don't give a toss what you throw at them because they have 70%+ resists across the board, ergo use the Drakes kinetic bonus to increase the damage output.

A truly passive Drake wouldn't use an invul, if you're capped out and using an invul your resists drop considerably when it stops running, you still get a slight resist boost from an inactive invul but it's not a lot, somewhere in the region of 15% depending on skills.

Hmmm @ Faction/officer fit Drakes, plenty of people love them, the loot is nearly as good as the tears Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#30 - 2011-10-07 21:12:24 UTC
Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.

They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-10-07 21:15:27 UTC
Quark Valhala wrote:
Get back on track.
Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank


If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game.

Quote:
A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range.


Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2011-10-07 21:16:46 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.

They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob.


Here's a better idea.

use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#33 - 2011-10-07 21:36:22 UTC
Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#34 - 2011-10-07 21:53:42 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
[Drake, Drake direct compare]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I

Hobgoblin II x5




Dread Gurista Drake, as close to the Cyclone as possible.

427 DPS / 485 OH
91 / 859 DPS defence
60 000 eHP
EM - 80%
Kn - 81%
Th - 82%
Ex - 84%


What is it with you and posting **** fits for comparison against other **** fits

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2011-10-07 22:02:46 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs


Since you're here, careb to compare the drake to the myrm, cane and harby? Comparing it to a cyclone is meaningless. Tier one and tier two BCs are never going to be equal.
Quark Valhala
Deliverance.
Ocularis Inferno
#36 - 2011-10-07 22:56:53 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Quark Valhala wrote:
Get back on track.
Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank


If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game.

Quote:
A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range.


Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has.


And how big are drakes?
And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range.
Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve.
They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender sø they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets.

Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-10-08 01:01:06 UTC
Quark Valhala wrote:
And how big are drakes?
And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range.
Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve.
They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender sø they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets.


I'm not sure what you mean by "big"...? If you're talking about popularity, Hurricanes are more popular. If you're talking about physical size, it doesn't matter.

Any inty can speed tank HMLs forever if it isn't webbed. A dualprop MSE or SAR frig can generally take a single web + HMLs and drones (assuming he's smart enough to kill them) long enough to let his DPS buddies catch up. If you want to act the dualprop frig's Grim Reaper, you need double webs to do it. Which takes your tank down to about a shield Hurricane's level. And if you want to play the "same damage from 0-70" card, drones do the same.

Also, as far as missile counters go, you can smartbomb them.

Quote:
Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill.


NH does more DPS. NH does need more grid, but that's a NH problem, not a Drake problem.
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-10-08 01:42:55 UTC
bongpacks wrote:
Neuts in C2 space are almost non-existant for the regular anomalies save for a couple frigates here and there and one neuting BS in data sanctuaries. The mag and radar sites have a bit more neuts. Passive drake can do this without a prop mod, do a hair more DPS and not die even if it manages to get capped out.


my active tanking harbinger was doing c2's easy peasy.



Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-10-08 17:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Why would anyone think a drake is OP?

A drake is just multi function. You can either pull out a heavy tank with crappy dps, or good dps with a crappy tank.

If you balance it for tank and dps then the drake is just a typical ship with moderate tank and moderate dps.

A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles.
It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles.

So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?"

Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks.
It's dps suffers from this tank though.

However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank.
This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship.

I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's.

Notice i'm saying better OVERALL data. There can be a t1 with a better tank, or better dps, or better range, but there isn't a t1 that is even removetly equal with all 3 areas.

Basically what I'm stating here is that tech 3 strategic cruisers are much better ships in tank, dps, and range than any battlecruiser, but yet, they're in a smaller class.

The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank.

IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another.

Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time.
Quark Valhala
Deliverance.
Ocularis Inferno
#40 - 2011-10-08 20:42:02 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Why would anyone think a drake is OP?


A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles.
It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles.

So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?"

Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks.
It's dps suffers from this tank though.

However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank.
This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship.

I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's.


The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank.

IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another.

Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time.


At least they Are worth killing tengu= 500-1000mill Drake = 50-70mill.