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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

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pussnheels
Viziam
#741 - 2012-06-19 20:59:41 UTC
xhile the changes look good for the poor miner and especially good for the newer players i have some doubts about the higher EHP and ore bays for barges
Will it not encourage more botting , bots are already pretty hard to detect somehow i feel it will encourage them to use barges instead of expensive exhumers

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#742 - 2012-06-19 21:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Ribikoka wrote:
[Snip, saying the same vacuous thing over and over and over again]

I've already proven everything that needs to be proven-----Edit-----and so have others in this thread, and other threads about this.

So:

Here we have a fleet brick--pretty fail-fit, too, I might add; Why would a passive shield buffer need CCC and CPR? Those aren't going to do much when it gets alpha'ed by 50-100-----Edit-----, and yes, it will die almost as quickly as any other ship under that--that has no tackle but is fit for a lot of shields/resist/regen, and so has a lot of shields/resists/regen. (I assume, can't be arsed to check at the moment.)

So what?

That's its role: To be a tank. That's really all it does well, and exceeding the limits of its tank will usually end badly, given the "not fully controllable" nature of passive/buffer shield-tanking. If the tank breaks, then there is little you can do to shore it back up except warp.-----Edit-----

It's also painfully slow and unwieldy, has the signature-radius of a capital ship under MWD--which is the only way toi get the damned thing to move out of its own way, let alone anything else's--and does-----Edit-----DPS, and what DPS it does takes forever to arrive on-target.

You've proven absolutely nothing, you're just gratingly repeating the same damned thing over, and over, and OVER again, that popularity and forgiving design = OP, with absolutely nothing tangible to back that statement up except fervent dogma that borders on religious.

In fact, you're not even explicitly saying that anymore, you're just-----Edit----- with a few random insults, along with the aforementioned dogma.

You have no argument.

Your attempt at one has been thoroughly defeated. Bow out gracefully, please, I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunities for you to fight this utterly useless fight another time.

Stop-----Edit----- this thread up with ::words:: that mean nothing, that's all they are.

In any case, your-----Edit-----posts are now blocked, I don't have time for you anymore--you bore me, Lili-alt.

Next!

Post edited.
No personal attacks, please.

ISD Tyrozan
Ensign
Community Communications Liaison
Interstellar Services Department

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#743 - 2012-06-19 22:37:11 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Cure for Mining Whining


Good blog, good blog. Would read againBlink

(And I'm so totally going to probe out Gravi sites and go rip some 'roids once the ORE frigate goes live, and this from a guy who can count on one hand the number of times he's mined in 3.5 years. It's just so incredibly cool-looking, it would be in poor taste not to!)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
SamuelCZ90
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#744 - 2012-06-20 01:13:12 UTC
Hello

Please make some gas cloud harveting barge :D It would be nice have minning ship for everything. And i thing for gas harvesting is last missing piece :D
Jarod Leercap
On Three 125
#745 - 2012-06-20 03:30:49 UTC
I can see the justification for the mining barge changes, but my sense of things is that the proposed changes will still have miners going to the ships with the most yield and then griping when they get ganked.

I'm also concerned about making the high-yield barge gank bait. As things are, a gang in high sec, even when it includes combat ships, is not much defense against suicide ganks. Unless your gang includes someone who can quickly loot and salvage your wreck, there's still (potentially) money to be made through suicide ganking if one brings a buddy to loot and salvage.

With that in mind, I would recommend giving all three T1 barges the same base stats and differentiating them only by bonuses. I would put tank bonuses on the Procurer and cargo bonuses on the Retriever. For the hard part, I would give the Covetor a gang bonus benefit bonus. I'd actually have two factors built into the bonus: the skill of the player (the bonus goes up with player skill) and the number of players in the immediate gang. I would the bonus start to kick in with the third gang member and hit the cap at six gang members.

The big plus about this approach is that there are benefits to flying the high yield boat (asterisk) in a gang, but none for doing so solo. I think this approach is the one that would do the most to resolve the miner vulnerability complaints.

I'm less certain about what to do with the Exhumers. I'd be satisfied seeing the defenses on the smaller two buffed, but I think the Hulk needs a more limited specialty like the ones on the other Exhumers. The bottom line is that I don't want to see the Hulk remain the yield king for all ore but Mercoxit.
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#746 - 2012-06-20 06:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
Jarod Leercap wrote:
I can see the justification for the mining barge changes, but my sense of things is that the proposed changes will still have miners going to the ships with the most yield and then griping when they get ganked.
Well then at least it'll be their fault when they explode. Right now the only way to mine in peace is to load a Rokh with mining lasers CPU upgrades and shield mods. But if they made a mining barge with Battleship EHP then there is no good reason not to use it.

Also I remember them mentioning that there won't be as much as a yield disparity between the mining barges. At least not like now where a covetor is worth 3 procurers and 1.5 retrievers.

Jarod Leercap wrote:
I'm also concerned about making the high-yield barge gank bait.
Well then it's not a ship to be flown in crowded highsec. Find an out of the way system to set up shop. Or just watch local, stay off the belt warp in point, and GTFO when dudes show up.

Hell, we were thinking of taking one of our dead end out of the way lowsec systems and setting up some "lowsec renters". Basically for the low low price of whatever the hell I feel like charging that day we'll set you blue and use you as bait.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#747 - 2012-06-20 07:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jarod Leercap wrote:
I can see the justification for the mining barge changes, but my sense of things is that the proposed changes will still have miners going to the ships with the most yield and then griping when they get ganked.

I'm also concerned about making the high-yield barge gank bait. As things are, a gang in high sec, even when it includes combat ships, is not much defense against suicide ganks. Unless your gang includes someone who can quickly loot and salvage your wreck, there's still (potentially) money to be made through suicide ganking if one brings a buddy to loot and salvage.


SEBOed Alpha (or AC) Nado will kill enough of a Destroyer gank long before they kill the target. A blackbird or a Rook will also make them have a very bad day.

Unless you piñata fit your Hulk, alpha ganks are badly unprofitable.

Quote:

With that in mind, I would recommend giving all three T1 barges the same base stats and differentiating them only by bonuses. I would put tank bonuses on the Procurer and cargo bonuses on the Retriever. For the hard part, I would give the Covetor a gang bonus benefit bonus. I'd actually have two factors built into the bonus: the skill of the player (the bonus goes up with player skill) and the number of players in the immediate gang. I would the bonus start to kick in with the third gang member and hit the cap at six gang members.

The big plus about this approach is that there are benefits to flying the high yield boat (asterisk) in a gang, but none for doing so solo. I think this approach is the one that would do the most to resolve the miner vulnerability complaints.

I'm less certain about what to do with the Exhumers. I'd be satisfied seeing the defenses on the smaller two buffed, but I think the Hulk needs a more limited specialty like the ones on the other Exhumers. The bottom line is that I don't want to see the Hulk remain the yield king for all ore but Mercoxit.


You get a bonus for flying in a gang. You get to use the hulk effectively instead of afk in a Mackinaw or safely in a Skiff. Your gang provides hauling and protection. If they can't provide one of these, you don't get to use the Hulk, you use the appropriate other Exhumer.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#748 - 2012-06-20 07:52:04 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
balbala and personal attacks


This is your arguments. Empty phrases and personal attack when someone wrote the truth and datas from drakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DC5P9xkyKs

This is 90% percents of 0.0 fights already and 8 months ago. Drake blobs and missile spamming nothing else.
Lili Lu
#749 - 2012-06-20 12:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Ribikoka wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
balbala and personal attacks


This is your arguments. Empty phrases and personal attack when someone wrote the truth and datas from drakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DC5P9xkyKs

This is 90% percents of 0.0 fights already and 8 months ago. Drake blobs and missile spamming nothing else.

Ribikoka, stop responding to him. Block his posts, they are not worth reading. He is certifiable. Let him sperge out to no avail. Eventually he will collapse or get some help, irl.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#750 - 2012-06-20 13:04:15 UTC
I think the Drake should have a new role bonus: for every new page of any given thread on the Eve Online forums, the probability of the Drake being mentioned approaches 1.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#751 - 2012-06-20 19:23:45 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.

  • DRONES USUALLY DON'T MIX WELL WITH LONG RANGE COMBAT DUE TO TRAVEL TIME; HOW DO YOU PLAN TO TACKLE THIS? Again, this is quite a bit early to tell, but an option is to have drone frigates provide a bonus to drone speed and tracking instead of just raw damage. Not only it avoids making them too much overpowering next to other frigates, but also provides an appealing purpose next to the larger drone hulls.


If this is going to happen you might consider just reducing the drone bays of frigs to 0-5 m3 and adding a 1m3 drone class that can only be used with frigates. Seems more eve-like to me then just giving all frigs some odd drone bonus globally... might avoid some balance problems along the way (assigned drones?)

Signatures should be used responsibly...
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#752 - 2012-06-20 19:52:32 UTC
Nice.
AlexOrl
Manten en Kalle
#753 - 2012-06-20 20:21:28 UTC
So wich of those ships will have bonuses for fitting gas harvesters?
Or wich ship would have the gas harvesting role?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#754 - 2012-06-20 21:00:58 UTC
Jarod Leercap wrote:
I can see the justification for the mining barge changes, but my sense of things is that the proposed changes will still have miners going to the ships with the most yield and then griping when they get ganked


Afk mining = low yield "battleship EHP"

If said miner picks the highest yeld one and get blown up, he can always SFTU and move on, smarter next time.

Anyway expect *insert whatever mining barge name with heavy EHP* = bot = *whawhawhawhawha brrrr CCP bot, me can kill not* nerf this NAO.

brb
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#755 - 2012-06-20 21:25:24 UTC
I expect to be using the high tank mining barge to mine in crowded high-sec systems, just to yank people's chains :)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#756 - 2012-06-20 21:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Ribikoka wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
balbala and personal attacks


This is your arguments. Empty phrases and personal attack when someone wrote the truth and datas from drakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DC5P9xkyKs

This is 90% percents of 0.0 fights already and 8 months ago. Drake blobs and missile spamming nothing else.


And people only fight in zerosec, in large fleets.

That's the only form of PvP in EVE.

And that paradigm is the only one about which PvP should be balanced, such that it effects the whole sandbox.

Whatever.

Get a clue, please.

Blocked for trolling, nothing more to see here.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#757 - 2012-06-20 21:54:25 UTC
Hoarr wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.


  • ARE YOU CONSIDERING CHANGING SOME FRIGATES TO FILL A LOGISTIC ROLE? Not at the moment, as we do not believe frigate hulls would be quite tailored for such a role: they are too frail and lack range to do the job properly. See the answer below for a more details on logistic ship plans.



    • Thanks for clearing all of that up. I'm really excited about the changes. The only thing that I have a question about is that you mention a separate section on another logi ship but then never get into them. What changes are you talking about?

    I'm interested in "the answer below" also. I'm guessing this was just a simple omission, yes?

    Tactical destroyers... I'll take a dozen Gallente, please.
    Jada Maroo
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #758 - 2012-06-20 22:45:20 UTC
    The Bantam badly needs a remodel. It is an embarassment to look at!
    Ribikoka
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #759 - 2012-06-20 22:59:01 UTC
    Lili Lu wrote:
    Ribikoka wrote:
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    balbala and personal attacks


    This is your arguments. Empty phrases and personal attack when someone wrote the truth and datas from drakes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DC5P9xkyKs

    This is 90% percents of 0.0 fights already and 8 months ago. Drake blobs and missile spamming nothing else.

    Ribikoka, stop responding to him. Block his posts, they are not worth reading. He is certifiable. Let him sperge out to no avail. Eventually he will collapse or get some help, irl.


    All right.
    Anyway so tiring to read his stupid troll answers.
    Trollin
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #760 - 2012-06-20 23:36:58 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    ARE WE RECEIVING A DEDICATED GAS MINING SHIP? A point that needs to be taken into consideration – if that is possible we will integrate it into the Skiff, otherwise you may have to wait for a dedicated hull to arrive.


    DOES THAT MEAN SKIFF WILL HAZ 5 HIGHSLOT?

    We are our own worst enemy.