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Fair enough. The Hulk doesn't need tweaks. It's now meant to be the most fragile, least user friendly ship in the line. In exchange, it has the best yield.

Before that, it was simply the best, and you don't fix an occupation by buffing the best, you do it by buffing the rest to compete.

Must we go back down this road again? This is a false statement and I demand that it be stricken from the record!

/me puts on his tinfoil hat and returns to talking to goldfish

But isn't that just sticking to the same combat style just with hybrids instead of projectiles? Is there only one way to fight in this game or are people just being closed minded? If there is truly no way that a Grifffin could beat a Rifter then I think that is a broken mechanic.

I mean the Griffin has 2 launchers a turret and a drone. I'd think if you could get a point on a rifter and jam him that unless he has ECCM fitted you should be able to take him down eventually.

What it seems to me CCP is trying to do is turn every ship into a rifter. I think a ship like the merlin should not be even with the rifter in 1 v 1 due to the fact that the resist bonus gives it an unfair advantage in fleet fights with cheap T1 logis around.

Caldari and Amarr resist bonuses multiply the effect of RR where the Minmatar and Gallente rep amount bonus do not. Therefore Gallente and Minmatar should be a little better in solo fights or fights where RR is not present to compensate for that.

I saw a dev blog trying to figure out a way to make it so that all 4 races got the same effect from RR. What I am talking about is encouraging a diversity of play styles instead of homogenizing combat even more than it already is.

Yes facepalm, because you wrote idiotic things.

You want to proof ? Drake Rebalance Topic

Check the datas. Everything was wrote there earlier.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

1 Drake 95646 kills (almost double numbers than any ships)

Most used weapons:

1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 34381

The drakes is OP, need rebalance and nerf. The buff of cruisers not help for this problem.
500+ drake fleets in 0.0. Drake blobs everywhere and the missile spam eat server resources more than any gunboat fleet.

And stop those arguments, how you playing 3.5 years ago. Many players playing with this game more than 9 years ago, just like me too.

Great stuff and amazing feedback. I'm pretty much in favour of allmost all of the plans, except making solo Hulk miner live harder.

1 I do mine in a backwater
2 mining aligned is hardly the life saver it is said to be when your not being a hyper-paranoid meth freak
3 I use local
4 this is highsec, I am too busy using D-Scan in my actual wormhole to give a rats ass about gankers

And I never sit at at the warp in point for belts like a lump as you say... And there is no price on my head.


Are you going to continue to fantasize about my mining routines while calling me stupid, or can we drop all of this nonsense?

The changes to the mining ships as a whole sound good to me, lets see how the actual changes are.

I have a few thoughts on this I wish to share:
Currently the safest area for mining is 0.0 - any not blue appears, you scramble. If you run everytime a new ship enters the system in high sec you will never ever mine a decent amount of ore - its just not doable. Only after the attacker has warped in that you can try to run. If the attacker puts a point on you - for which he has plenty of time, even if you are aligned, you are dead.

Give the miners a fighting chance. Any barge should be able to withstand at least 3 salvos of a good skilled destroyer pilot.
Any mining barge should be able to target a suicide ganker in such a fashion (i.e. short time) that they are able to counter attack with their drones.
You can not attack the SG as it is now. Who would want his 300-500+Mill Hulk be blown up by Concord for a preemptive strike? Only after the SG fire their first shot can one counter attack, which is futile now. Let the suicide gankers at least risk to be blown apart by sufficiently (drone) skilled miners. The SG should not get away with a 2Mill Destroyer against a highly skilled adversary in a Hulk.
If the suicide gankers use Battlecruisers to accomplish their goal and avoid being ripped apart by the drones, they have to spend at least a decent ammount of ISK on the ship that will eventually be blown up by Concord. Suicide ganking should still be possible, but not as easy or as cheap is it is now.

The orehold of Hulk, Skiff and Mackinaw (when icemining) should be large enough to hold two cycles of a perfect miner with a perfect supporter (both with implants and maxed out skills). Anything less is clickageddon. One of the Mackinaws' Iceminers already switches off at the begin of the second cycle although there is space left - not enough to hold the full cycle return, but more than 0m3. Check the space left only at the end of the cycle, not at the beginning.

When you add an orehold the cargohold does not need to be that big, it just needs to hold a decent amount of spare crystals and crystals for different ores. I think about 1000m3 should be sufficient for most circumstances. Mining in a remote location (no station) with 3 different ores plus replacement crystals: 3x6x50 = 900m3. 1.000m3 would leave some space for rat loot or 2 more crystals of choice, while not increasing the cargo capacity in a meaningful manner for a high skilled miner. If you want to prevent an additional block of ice being stored make it 999m3.

To make the Procurer useful it needs to be able to fit 3 stripminers. Which of course would require the retriever to fit 3 as well. Add a multiplicator to assign a bonus/malus as you seem fit. A Procurer will never become popular with just 1 stripminer and most likely not even with 2, no matter what the cargo-/orehold or the tank. If I can fit a battleship with 8 MinerII and it outmines the procurer, guess what I will use? If I can use a Hulk and even though I have to dock frequently I still outmine the Procurer, guess what I will use. In a dangerous area, where the Hulk perishes soon, how much longer will a scrambled Pocurer last? Guess who will mine there?

To make the Mackinaw more useful allow the medium slots to be used. Currently one can only put a couple of civilian shield booster there - which is just enough to fend off rat damage in upper high sec areas...

Make the cargohold expanders/rigs apply to the Orehold, please!!! I know you won't, but I would love this On a (relatively) small cargohold those are nearly useless and therefore a waste of slots.

Don't buff the Hulk beyond recognition, it takes a lot of time to get there, which should still be worthwhile. Adding the ore miner skill should take care of the training time / usefullness rate between T1 and T2 barges.

Mining cruisers - increase ore-/cargohold to make them usefull. Any Destroyer outmines them and they even come with more cargo... Better yet, skip the dedicated mining frigates, they are to small. Make the mining cruisers the entry level for dedicated mining, with a decent bonus and a suitable cargohold. Ofc one should still be able to mine in a frigate, just skip the mining bonus there.

In order:
They all can, as they have more than 3k EHP.
Set drones to agressive
Set ECM drones to agressive, or bring a friend in something with sebos.
A tanked hulk with either a friend in a fast locking Gank BC or RR ship means Alpha is required (in fact, 6 Tornados are required.

So stop fitting and flying your ship bad, and you have everything you want.

Nullsec is safe due to the large amount of effort expended by a large number of people.




2 clicks every ten minutes. Oh, the horror.



Seriously? They said that they'd be buffing the yield of the Procurer/Retriever. Might want to wait to see the numbers before you **** yourself over them

Mining Cruisers are going the way of the Dodo, replaced by an Ore Frig.

If they're a waste of slots, don't use them... *gasp*

Scrambled industrial ships die unless CONCORD responds quickly. In areas without CONCORD, they just die. The trick is to not get scrambled.

Your link leads to a thread of arguments from people who are on both sides of this argument, hardly proof of any conclusion.

As for stats, Hurricane and Drake used to be fairly neck and neck, until a certain large alliance started fielding huge fleets of them. Did the Drake suddenly become OP at that point? Frequency =/= OP. After they are done with the Drake (and once CCP gets it in their head to nerf something they usually go way too far), I presume you would be screaming just as loudly to nerf the Hurricane as it becomes the fleet doctrine whelp-BC?

As for lag and server resources, are you seriously going to say the Drake is OP due to server resource use? That's more a problem for CCP to fix, and to my understanding they have made great strides in that direction.

The drake is a good ship. But there are plenty of other good ships out there. Don't start the fail-cascade of nerfing anything that works for balance's sake, because when that cycle is done all we have left are crap ships and stories from old timers who lament about the good old days when there where ships that where good to fly.

My personal thoughts:

Coercer - meh, everyone bitches about the lack of a midslot but its called a *coercer*. You get your kills exactly like the ship name says, by convincing the enemy they can take you down and WHAM they're dead. I've seen this down (yes, in solo fights) so many countless times I just don't see a real reason why all ships MUST have two mid slots. ....but on the other hand, the universe won't implode if it did.

Drakes - is it the Drake that's the problem, or the blob? Not much you can do about the blob, that's the drawback of EVE combat and not a reason to nerf a ship, though you could certainly make the case that Drakes need some.....adjustment ;)

Malediction - I don't think you understand tackle frigs, TBH. Their job is not to apply DPS to the thing they are tackling, there should be plenty of other ships around for that purpose. *Any* DPS on a pure tackle frig / inty is there for one reason - self defence, usually against drones. In that case, the small caliber turrets and short range rockets the fleet ceptors fit are quite suitable.

Gallente ships - this is exactly what they buffed, on almost every single hull, in Crucible. While there is lots of other things that will help the Gallente out (the new drone damage mod, the proposed sensor damp fix which will force more fighting against gallente ships into short range) I don't know that you're going to convince CCP that speed is still the major issue when they just got finished buffing speed and agility across the board.