These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lunaleil Fournier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#561 - 2012-06-15 22:24:46 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Hope that clears some confusion.


Yes, that post was epic, thank you!


Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#562 - 2012-06-15 22:41:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Battlecruisers are not broken, except for the Myrmidon, which could really use at least one extra (hi-)slot and a drone-bandwidth buff.
He's referring to the tier-1 BCs, which are all broken since they are all completely outclassed by their higher-tiered brethren.


Well, yeah, that's true, though he didn't explicitly say so.

The Brutix is an arguable exception, but what is even it really good for, except as a pure gank-ship (which the Talos now does better)?

Tier 2 for general PvP combat/mid-range PvE*...

Should stay more or less as they are, especially given that in the latter case, these are often the first ship that a new player starts to make "real" money with, and these ships have both great versatility and can grow with that new player for a long time, in a variety of uses.

But Ti-1....Maybe these ships need a whole new role, not necessarily pure combat-biased?

* ATT'N: Idiots who mindlessly bleat about the Drake being O/P:

For PvE:

Try running a DED 5/10 complex, or any of the unrated 'plexes in losec--exception, "(Faction) Minor Annex," in my experience--and you'll see this ship's limits right bloody quick Ugh.

Example: Angel's Red Light District (DED 5/10. It eats the 4/10 alive though), around an hour to do, with at least 1-2 warp-outs required. This is not what you want in risky space!

No, it won't handle the "(Faction) Annex," though trying it will hurt a lotOops...

For PvP:

Learn how signature radius works vis-a-vis both guns and missiles, and you'll see why the Drakes capital-ship size signature means it needs that beastly tank. That cannot be nerfed without a corresponding reduction in sig and/or buff in speed/agility, or you will just be left with another useless ship.

In the Drake's case this would be utterly criminal, especially given how useful it is now to younger/newer players to start making "real" money--to fund PvP, natch!--with its forgiving nature, relatively low cost, and easy barrier of entry skills-wise.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Sarmatiko
#563 - 2012-06-15 23:49:52 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • ARE WE RECEIVING NEW MODELS FOR THE REVAMPED SHIP ROLES, LIKE THE BANTAM? Nope, not at the moment. It could be worse though, you could be flying a Moa Twisted.

    • Moa is unique and well-designed ship. Unlike Bantam Twisted
    Lili Lu
    #564 - 2012-06-16 00:11:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Tippia wrote:
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Battlecruisers are not broken, except for the Myrmidon, which could really use at least one extra (hi-)slot and a drone-bandwidth buff.
    He's referring to the tier-1 BCs, which are all broken since they are all completely outclassed by their higher-tiered brethren.


    Well, yeah, that's true, though he didn't explicitly say so.

    The Brutix is an arguable exception, but what is even it really good for, except as a pure gank-ship (which the Talos now does better)?

    Tier 2 for general PvP combat/mid-range PvE*...

    Should stay more or less as they are, especially given that in the latter case, these are often the first ship that a new player starts to make "real" money with, and these ships have both great versatility and can grow with that new player for a long time, in a variety of uses.

    But Ti-1....Maybe these ships need a whole new role, not necessarily pure combat-biased?

    * ATT'N: Idiots who mindlessly bleat about the Drake being O/P:

    For PvE:

    Try running a DED 5/10 complex, or any of the unrated 'plexes in losec--exception, "(Faction) Minor Annex," in my experience--and you'll see this ship's limits right bloody quick Ugh.

    Example: Angel's Red Light District (DED 5/10. It eats the 4/10 alive though), around an hour to do, with at least 1-2 warp-outs required. This is not what you want in risky space!

    No, it won't handle the "(Faction) Annex," though trying it will hurt a lotOops...

    For PvP:

    Learn how signature radius works vis-a-vis both guns and missiles, and you'll see why the Drakes capital-ship size signature means it needs that beastly tank. That cannot be nerfed without a corresponding reduction in sig and/or buff in speed/agility, or you will just be left with another useless ship.

    In the Drake's case this would be utterly criminal, especially given how useful it is now to younger/newer players to start making "real" money--to fund PvP, natch!--with its forgiving nature, relatively low cost, and easy barrier of entry skills-wise.

    The only mindless idiots are people like you who mindlessly hit F1 from a stationary position as they PVE . . in their brick tank Drake. Too bad that CCP realizes the numbers can no nlonger be ignored and will be nerfing your oversized tank and lack of tradeoffs in fitting decisions. It's coming . . but let me do the crying . . because it's coming in 2014 or later. What?

    So rest easy easy-mode gaming addict. Your mindless boat will continue to be head and shoulders above others in its class and competing with tech II ships for tanking ability for years to come still. However, I'll still be around in this horribly balanced and glacially changing game to bathe in your tears when the end comes to the reign of the Drake.Twisted

    edit- I used to be reasonable and hope that the nerf was fair. No longer. I hope they nerf it into last place uselessness. I hope all your HML IIs and LSE IIs rot in your hanger for years thereafter along with the ship.
    Gevlin
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #565 - 2012-06-16 00:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlin
    CCP Ytterbium

    weird your accent actually comes through your typing. I could hear you saying the works as I was reading them.. weird.

    I am so going to enjoy flying all the frigates.

    Light Missiles... I think are great especially for ratting. In a frigate. I get the range of a sniper ships and DPS of a close range ship. I just forgo flight time.

    Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
    Gevlin
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #566 - 2012-06-16 00:43:14 UTC
    I really like the changes to barges for tech 1

    Though the Nerf a while back to prevent Super Carriers from using Drones smaller than Fighters really put a dent in the play style of "Look How Much Isk I a have I have a Mining Super Carrier." And everyone and their neighbor would come to try and kill that ships.

    Developing an Ore Super Carrier would give some miners with a max out mining toon a goal to train for, equip and get shot down in.

    Please Please at least put it on the : I'll Think about it when I need a laugh list.

    Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
    Lili Lu
    #567 - 2012-06-16 00:44:20 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    . . WHY WORKING ON FRIGATES FIRST WHEN SO MANY OTHER SHIPS CLASSES ARE BROKEN? (battlecruisers in particular): that’s mainly because we are not just fixing ships, but overhauling EVE balancing as a whole by removing tiers. This is an extremely tricky move, which is why we want to start to get experience with frigates first before we move to the more problematic hulls.

    Also, frigates suffer the most from current tiers issues, and as the first vessels provided to new players, not reflecting a good image of the game if they are being told to skip them entirely to train for battlecruisers. Finally, it's virtually impossible to hit everyone wishes at once with one set of changes, as we have hundreds of ship to go through and there is unfortunately no guarantee we can directly fix the ship you are interested in. We know it's hard to ask such a thing after years of neglect, but please be patient, we will get to them eventually Blink

  • HAVE YOU CONSIDERED MOVING SOME FRIGATE HULLS INTO DESTROYERS? Yes, we have in the past, but that idea was dropped it would create inconsistencies between the different model sizes. Besides, we preferred introducing new toys for you to play with, because all that new glittering usually is much more excit… ooooh, shiny!

  • DRONES USUALLY DON'T MIX WELL WITH LONG RANGE COMBAT DUE TO TRAVEL TIME; HOW DO YOU PLAN TO TACKLE THIS? Again, this is quite a bit early to tell, but an option is to have drone frigates provide a bonus to drone speed and tracking instead of just raw damage. Not only it avoids making them too much overpowering next to other frigates, but also provides an appealing purpose next to the larger drone hulls.

  • WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO MAKE SUCH CHANGES? WHY ARE YOU TAKING SO MUCH TIME REBALANCING THINGS WHEN YOU STATED PERFECT BALANCE WAS NOT POSSIBLE? That’s tied to the first point of this reply: we are totally revamping EVE balancing philosophy, and that unfortunately takes time. Even if perfect balance cannot be achieved, we still wish to take proper time in our balancing process to weight options, consider player feedback for iterations instead of just rushing to get everything done as fast as possible.

  • ARE WE RECEIVING NEW MODELS FOR THE REVAMPED SHIP ROLES, LIKE THE BANTAM? Nope, not at the moment. It could be worse though, you could be flying a Moa Twisted.

  • HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TACKLE CAPACITOR ISSUES WITH TECH 1 ATTACK FRIGATES? First, by increasing their capacitor quite a bit, then by possibly having a fixed role bonus, even if we are not too fond of that on tech 1 ships. A most likely option would be to have a capacitor reduction to warp scrambler and disruptors on them just like on Interceptors.

  • ARE YOU PLANNING ON REVAMPING TECH2 SHIPS THAT MAY BECOME OBSOLETE WITH SUCH CHANGES, LIKE THE ELECTRONIC ATTACK FRIGATES? Well it’s not like EAS are not obsolete already, but hell yes we do want to improve them. However we first want to finish all tech 1 hulls before we move into more complex matters to have a frame of reference we can base ourselves upon.

    • Of course it's Tricky to engage in a comprehensive overhaul. But that does not mean you couldn't take easy interim fixes and put them on tranquility. Would it be so hard to tgive eac tier II BC the hp stats of their tier I counterpart? No shifting of slots or hardpoints or bonuses. Just knocking them down a peg because they (well one and maybe two of them) are the largest ship problem you've got.Idea This is not rushing,As for considering player feedback, where was that concern when you nerfed damps and the myrm and webs and provided no re-buffs for the dedicated ships. Would a 10% per level bonus on damps and painters be as game breaking as your increase to 30% on ecm boats?

    How is shifing a frig to a destroyer not a new shiney also? You would have to design a new hull either way. Your answer makes no sense. I suppose what you could have answered was "but where will all those bpos go?" They'd be fine in silicon heaven.[;)
    At least the drone bonus idea is new and decent.

    EAF really should concentrate on the primary ewar. There already are dedicated tackling ships. A Keres will probably never be as good a tackler as a Ceptor or AF, but it could be a great damp boat, ditto the others (Kitsune is already strong enough being that it uses ecm, but of course whatever added hp and cap you give the whole class could be given to it as well).

    Seriously, take some people off the nex stor clothing project. Take them off any new inventory plans (but keep enough to fix what it broke). Prioritize this project. You've already been sying it's in the works for over a year, and here we are with another couple or more years to go before you get anywhere near fixing what it trully overrepresented (drakes and tengus) and underrepresented (EAF, HACs). I like that finally someone is in charge that can for the most part see what is wrong, but ffs scream for this project to be prioritized within the company.
    Sizeof Void
    Ninja Suicide Squadron
    #568 - 2012-06-16 01:19:17 UTC
    Mining is a peculiar profession, and the folks who spend hours, days, weeks and months doing this non-stop really don't have much in common with mission runners and PVPers.

    So, while the proposed changes to mining barges sound good on paper, I hope that CCP Ytterbium and the rest of the rebalancing team are planning to spend a few weeks or so doing some actual heavy-duty mining in-game, and not just on Sisi, *before* they actually finalize any changes. I'd suggest rolling up a few disposable toons and joining some of the existing mining corps, to get the inside perspective. Try mining in a fleet, and solo. Mine ice, rocks and gas - in high, low, and null sec.

    Also, I'd suggest trying your hand doing some mining in one of Weaselior and Co.'s happy hi-sec hunting grounds. You'll get a far better idea of the true effectiveness of ganking miners by being at the receiving end of their DPS. Maybe you can get Helicity and The Mittani to sponsor a mini-Hulkageddon, just for your benefit.

    After all, there isn't much point in wasting hours/days designing a theoretically tankier mining barge if it is only going to take Weaselior about 5 minutes to build something cheaper to beat it. You'll just get to listen to another 5 years of complaining from the miners.
    Tarryn Nightstorm
    Hellstar Towing and Recovery
    #569 - 2012-06-16 01:23:40 UTC
    Lili Lu wrote:


    [Snip: The usual Lili Lu sanctimonious nullsec whine-bear garbage]


    Try reading and understanding what I ******* wrote, troll.

    I'm pretty sure that you, in your Ivory Tower of 1337-ness will think that you've "got" me in this, and that I am feeling a need to justify myself--to the likes of you? Fat ******* chance, babe!--but rest assured, you couldn't be more wrong.

    Let me educate you:

    DED 5/10, and unrated equivalents (those are actually tougher, most of them. The Angels' Annex is said to be the "unofficial Angels DED 6/10," until CCP explicitly fills in that blank.).

    In losec.

    Much tougher than a level 3/4 in hisec, and much more risky.

    My fit is not brick-tanked, nor should it ever be, first off because:

    A) It was originally rigged/specced as a PvP ship (HAM/Medium-neut brawler, thank you very much), so it's not optimal for PvE right there, and is re-fit for that if/when pew-pew might be in the offing. I don't go looking for trouble, but EVE being EVE...

    B) I have and need a CPU-mod in a low slot so I can fit an Improved cloak in the free high slot to get around aforementioned losec kinda safely. The other three lows are BCU IIs. No SPRs because that would compromise capacitor too much--not the strongest suit of Caldari ships in general to begin with--with the MWD, and compromise its already kinda weak DPS way too much.

    C) MicroWarpdrive in a mid--this thing lives and dies by range/maintaining same in this situation, and the DPS is already weak enough that its tank (2 LSE II, Invuln II, 2x Explosive resist amp II--no CPU left for active hardeners) will be tested, even then--try applying a MWD/2 LSE Drake's signature radius (it's roughly 2.25 kilometres IIRC) into the turret tracking formula, even with maximum realistic transversal.

    You don't "sit and mindlessly press F1" in that situation, else you will die quite quickly to the NPCs, and that's not even considering the risks from other players (Hello? Ever occur to you to get off the warp-in point for that room? MWD helps a lot there, too. You actually fly the ship to do both that, and maintain the aforementioned transversal and range to the enemies.).

    You fly the damned ship, constantly watching and maximising both range and transevrsal, occasionally overheating tank- and weapon-mods, so micromanaging that (T II HMLs don't have the best heat-tolerances), and constantly watching local and/or d-scan.

    If the 'plex is in a system you haven't been in before, then you also first have to get there in one piece, and also "prepare the ground" by making safe- and bounce-spots, and maybe a gate on-grid or three.

    TL/DR: About as different from your lame, lemming-like idea of Drake-based PvE in hisec as it's possible to get.

    It's why I like exploration in losec--actual challenge and risk, needing actual piloting skill, something your history of sanctimonious follow-the-herd forum-bleating tells me you know rather less of than I do.

    The only thing "easy-mode" I'd really love is suicide-ganking your stupid ass and your pod. Sec-status isn't that important as long as you keep it above -2.00, anyway.

    I suspect you'd never see it coming.

    (Oh, apropos: Feel free to insert your predictable-as-death-and-taxes "Real PvPEE IN NULL!!!111!!oneone!" **** here, by the way.)

    Oh, if it matters, I don't usually use key-binds--all/almost all mouse, all the time, aside from the cloak/MWD manoeuvre, though this may change once I get fully (skills-wise) into my Ishtar and learn to use drones as my primary weapons-system.

    ******* 1337-tard carebears, man, how the Hell do they work? RollUgh

    Oh, and feel free to keep condescendingly shitting all over new/new-ish players and their opportunities to get into higher-end PvE--and start making real money for PvP--just because you don't like the tools they choose to use to do so, or that they have one more or less ready-made to do so. They'll find its--considerable--limits right quick, if they're smart, and progress more or less normally.

    ******* 1337-tard nullsec blob-bear piece of *****, do the community a favour and biomass ASAP.

    * See? I can make completely unfounded and offensive generalisations about the playstyle/methods of a person I don't even know, too. I suspect, however, that unlike you, I am right here. Please un-install the client now, and find another community to try and ruin with your elitist entitlement-whinging crap.




    Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
    Lili Lu
    #570 - 2012-06-16 01:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Spergelord Lol

    Ooh, hit a nerve there. Are you conjoined to your drake? see this is what I'm talking about the wonderful tears that will flow when it gets nerfed. Thanks.

    As a serious response, you should look at the drake statistics. Guess what is multiple times over the second place module for activations in the game, HML. What tops eve-kill month after month by two or three times the second place ship for pvp, the Drake. It's not unfortunately for your argument a leet v newb issue, its surprise, a balance issue. Congrats you found an op ship like so many other folks and you use it. But hey you started the name calling with calling all drake critics mindless idiots. It sounds like you can't take a few names back. You have more problems than your favorite toy slated for a change, have to say.

    Anyway, why u mad, you have a few good years left with the love of your life.P

    edit 2- I'm sorry you rate me at a 3, I will endeavor to find what pleases you.
    Tarryn Nightstorm
    Hellstar Towing and Recovery
    #571 - 2012-06-16 01:56:14 UTC
    Lili Lu wrote:
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Spergelord Lol

    Ooh, hit a nerve there. Are you conjoined to your drake? see this is what I'm talking about the wonderful tears that will flow when it gets nerfed. Thanks.


    Advice:

    Take a lesson or three from Lady Skank Spank. S/he does the forum-hater/troll thing much better than you do.

    3/10 as you got me to respond--twice--but no style, and even less originality.

    Keep practising!


    Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
    Joseph O'Neil
    Sanctum Within
    #572 - 2012-06-16 02:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph O'Neil
    Quote:
    WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE HULK AFTER THE CHANGE? Exact modifications are still vague, but the plan is to quite reduce its cargo hold and add an ore bay of the same size than the removed cargo hold. That means cargo expanders and rigs won’t affect the ore bay at all, requiring players to unload ore more frequently. This is by design, as we want the Hulk to be moved into a fleet purpose that has to rely on others to make proper use of its best mining output. That also means we will not be introducing items that affect the ore bay size.


    THIS IS A BAD IDEA. I know the whole point is to group up and play with others, and I often do for missions and such. However, when it comes to mining, more often then not (95% of the time), I find myself mining on my alt alone in her Hulk. No Orca support (cause my Hulk pilot is the Orca pilot), and therefor I fit cargo expanders to minimize the amount of times I need to return to the station to empty.

    Is this change really necessary? I mean, unless the Mackinaw is improved, it will never be as effective for mining Ore solo as the Hulk is now, due to the additional striper and the following bonus:
    Exhumers Skill Bonus:
    3% better yield for Strip Miners per level

    So I ask, CCP, what do plan to do to address this issue that some of us might have with this change. If we've grown accustomed to mining solo with the hulk, are you saying that you don't want us mining alone anymore? Or is it that you just want us to be less efficient and less productive from an isk/hour perspective?
    Geksz
    The Fountain
    #573 - 2012-06-16 02:13:10 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:

    Anyone that has done any decent roaming combat fleet, can tell you that it takes more than 2 hours and everyone has to take a "bio break" now and then. These breaks involve halting or slowing the whole fleet for a few minutes, which may lead to missing, or even losing fights -- terrible consequences for something as natural as going to the bathroom. These guys don't make any income, and can sometimes go a whole night without finding a single target. They need some way to be able to not pay attention half the time and yet not lose effectiveness of the fleet.

    Is it that big of a request?


    +1 for this idea!:)
    Vrykolakasis
    Sparrowhawks Corp
    #574 - 2012-06-16 02:15:11 UTC
    Awesome changes. At this rate I can expect a Marauder buff by the mid 22nd century.
    Geksz
    The Fountain
    #575 - 2012-06-16 02:15:31 UTC
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:
    Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
    Petrus Blackshell wrote:

    Ed: also, *you, *you're, *your. This isn't a phone text message.


    Roll

    Before we all become grammar *****, let's keep in mind that EVE is a multinational game played by many people for whom English isn't a first language, and so mistakes don't necessarily indicate laziness or lack of education.

    My bad. Sometimes I get ahead of myself and can be prejudiced at some forumgoers because of others' tendency to not put enough effort into their posts then expect to be taken seriously.


    Sorry, my bad. I was being lazy, becouse i find *you* *you're* and *your* long words to type, at least for me they are much longer to type than handwrite, so to speed up my post writing i shorten them.

    Sorry if i offended your grammar sense. I'll try to practice more.

    Thanks for showing me the way!Blink
    Tarryn Nightstorm
    Hellstar Towing and Recovery
    #576 - 2012-06-16 02:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
    Lili Lu wrote:
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Spergelord Lol

    Ooh, hit a nerve there. Are you conjoined to your drake? see this is what I'm talking about the wonderful tears that will flow when it gets nerfed. Thanks.

    As a serious response, you should look at the drake statistics. Guess what is multiple times over the second place module for activations in the game, HML. What tops eve-kill month after month by two or three times the second place ship for pvp, the Drake. It's not unfortunately for your argument a leet v newb issue, its surprise, a balance issue. Congrats you found an op ship like so many other folks and you use it. But hey you started the name calling with calling all drake critics mindless idiots. It sounds like you can't take a few names back. You have more problems than your favorite toy slated for a change, have to say.

    Anyway, why u mad, you have a few good years left with the love of your life.P

    edit 2- I'm sorry you rate me at a 3, I will endeavor to find what pleases you.


    Popular =/= overpowered, nor yet unbalanced. Gee, the fact that a ship is forgiving to fly and easy to get into, easier to fit for a newbie than many others, that couldn't possibly have a thing to do with popularity, now could it. Roll

    The vast majority of the Drake-critics are idiots, and your lame, generic, done-to-death defense of its' being "O/P" is just more of the same.

    The intelligent ones usually stop being Drake-critics because they quickly learn just how limited it is outside of its niche:

    Ranged tank + at-best-moderate ranged DPS, or lower-end-of-average brawl-range DPS.

    Of all these, tank is the only thing it really does well.

    If you want it to do other things better, then it needs a considerable signature-radius reduction, increased fitting-capacity, and a speed/agility buff. How much "less O/P" do you suppose a chassis with that much raw EHP and recharge-rate would then be?

    So nerf those, and kill the only real entry-into-decent money from PvE option for most newer players, possibly costing CCP who knows how many subs?

    So let's buff gank-n-speed with missiles, then. How much "Less O/P" thenRoll

    Think, fool!

    And I mean beyond your usual maggot's-eye-view perspective of "I don't like this, so others shouldn't have it," OK?

    Now STFU and GTFO, kid.

    (I find that as I age, I have less and less energy to play nice with these tw*ts, sorry 'bout thatBear)

    E: Fail typing is fail.

    E2:

    Tengu, Caracal, plus umpty-dozen ships that use/can use HMs as a secondary weapon-system, that clearly has nothing to do with that weapon-system's popularity. It's all the fault of the "ZOMFG OP DRAEK!!!111!!oneone!!"

    E3:

    You shall please me mightily if you just stop posting.

    Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
    Tyberius Franklin
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #577 - 2012-06-16 03:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
    Joseph O'Neil wrote:
    Quote:
    WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE HULK AFTER THE CHANGE? Exact modifications are still vague, but the plan is to quite reduce its cargo hold and add an ore bay of the same size than the removed cargo hold. That means cargo expanders and rigs won’t affect the ore bay at all, requiring players to unload ore more frequently. This is by design, as we want the Hulk to be moved into a fleet purpose that has to rely on others to make proper use of its best mining output. That also means we will not be introducing items that affect the ore bay size.


    THIS IS A BAD IDEA. I know the whole point is to group up and play with others, and I often do for missions and such. However, when it comes to mining, more often then not (95% of the time), I find myself mining on my alt alone in her Hulk. No Orca support (cause my Hulk pilot is the Orca pilot), and therefor I fit cargo expanders to minimize the amount of times I need to return to the station to empty.

    Is this change really necessary? I mean, unless the Mackinaw is improved, it will never be as effective for mining Ore solo as the Hulk is now, due to the additional striper and the following bonus:
    Exhumers Skill Bonus:
    3% better yield for Strip Miners per level

    So I ask, CCP, what do plan to do to address this issue that some of us might have with this change. If we've grown accustomed to mining solo with the hulk, are you saying that you don't want us mining alone anymore? Or is it that you just want us to be less efficient and less productive from an isk/hour perspective?

    The idea is that you trade a part of that yield for being more self sufficient. If you are not using a hulk while mining solo it means they did it right. That said the true measure of success will be how much the Machinaw/Retriever/Skiff/Procurer are buffed, but even then for pure yield the hulk should be better.

    Time to adapt and change tactics. The more people that switch ships, the better the job CCP probably did.
    None ofthe Above
    #578 - 2012-06-16 05:18:21 UTC
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Lili Lu wrote:
    Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
    Spergelord Lol

    I will endeavor to find what pleases you.


    Popular =/= overpowered, nor yet unbalanced. Gee, the fact that a ship is forgiving to fly and easy to get into, easier to fit for a newbie than many others, that couldn't possibly have a thing to do with popularity, now could it. Roll


    Would you two just get a room? The kinky hate-sex games are getting a bit tiresome.

    Honestly largely agree with Tarryn here, but wish he hadn't started out calling people fools, that's a sure way to have a less than productive conversation.

    Its a valid point that common heavily used things do not mean overpowered.

    Are clothes over powered since everyone uses them? Doorknobs?

    Drake is an example of a ship that works, much like the Rifter is. It should be largely left alone in the rebalance, IMHO.



    The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
    Mars Theran
    Foreign Interloper
    #579 - 2012-06-16 07:05:30 UTC
    Love it. What? Everything. Keep up the good work. Bear
    zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
    Varg Krugar
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #580 - 2012-06-16 10:42:44 UTC
    with the upcoming barge changes, please look at the ore transport capacity of a rorqual/orca stuffed with mining barges. if the barge sizes stay the same and you can put the same amount of currently smaller barges with the then bigger ore bays into the rorqual, the amount of ore transported will go up, possibly beyond what was intended.

    sorry if this has already been adressed in this thread.