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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#341 - 2012-06-14 18:37:29 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes
…you mean, aside from them removing the tiers from mining barges and exhumers, and giving them distinct roles rather than just be +1 to the previous model (which is exactly the point of tiercide).

Quote:
This is ship rebalancing […] CCP is defining roles for ships.
Exactly: tiercide.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#342 - 2012-06-14 18:38:31 UTC
OMG!!!! T2 Mining Frig: Covert Ops Ninja Miner?
Nate Gordo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#343 - 2012-06-14 18:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nate Gordo
IS there anything in the pipeline to improve the Hel Supercarrier, as it doesnt really serve a function with its current bonuses, could it be worked that its a rate of fire bonus for drones, just so it can be brought on par with the other supercarriers, which either tank better or do more dps. At the momemtn it can't stay in the fight for as long or do as much damage, so whats is the point of the Hel as a supercarrier.

The Nidhoggur could do with some work too, as its supposedly the best support carrier in terms of bonus but is nearly matched by the Archon which can tank better.

The Hel and Nidhoggur are not well balanced, and they should be.

On another note good work on the mining frig looks awesome.
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#344 - 2012-06-14 18:45:30 UTC
Very exciting changes coming here. I see a lot of arguing about what the changes will do to the various barges/exhumers, yet, unless someone has inside info, is a lot of conjecture not based on facts.

What we know besides what was written in the blog is that CCP is looking to get away from t1,t2,t3 ships and instead re-purpose ship hulls. Before we start hitting panic buttons left, right and center, lets try to wait and see what details emerge. I can already see that this will make nice new challenges for ganking. I believe the gankers won't be crying, they will be excited at the new challenges to accomplish what they want.

Miners will have to balance between solo-mining with lower yield, huge ore hold ships and higher yield, lower capacity ships. Or join a fleet. Eve has always been and will always be, about choices and trade-offs. One size should NOT fit all. I would like to stare at a different ship every now and then when mining. Although, I sure don't know if I could take the extra excitement.

I would like to see modules for giving mining bonuses instead of role bonuses. I could see that as being something interesting for use. It would give miners additional choices/trade-offs.

Change is good, this whole blog was full of good. Keep up the good work CCP.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#345 - 2012-06-14 18:47:30 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Did you read the same thread I did?

I haven't seen tons of baseless, idiotic claims or tears (except for a few who really want the hulk to have the BS tank).

The last couple of pages are pretty bad, especially all the crap about the Hulk's tank and cargo expanders and such. v0v

Swearte Widfarend wrote:
This discussion is much more reasonable than the Sisi Wardec thread...

Can't argue with you on that point. ******* tinfoil...


It's all of 1 guy. TO THE INTERNETS!

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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#346 - 2012-06-14 18:49:54 UTC
As a miner the changes in the mining ships is the best news I've heard for us rock hounds since the Orrca!

I agree it would nice is not only is the small barge a tough little guy but slippery as well. Give it the ability to quickly warp away and suddenly ninja mining in dangerous areas becomes attractive!

When I saw the dev blog prior to release I couldn't wait for it to go out so I could talk about it. Now all I can say is thanks CCP for showing us miners some overdue love!

These mining ship changes are going to be awesome!

Issler
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
#347 - 2012-06-14 18:51:21 UTC
Rrama Ratamnim wrote:
Zorok wrote:
Hi,
I'm happy to hear that you are willing to give *some* of the mining barges a bit of a buff against attackers. The ore hold bonus to the retriever/mackinaw is nice but I don't think that 1 jettison can worth of ore + a bit tougher defense is going to get people to switch to using these ships. The best setup for a lone miner is to use a hulk to mine and then use an Orca to pick up the jet cans.
I believe that if you want to make the ore hold really worth while on the mackinaw/retriever, you should look at the minimum of 4 jet cans in space if you're expecting pilots to give up using a Hulk/Orca combo.

In Eve, time is money and vice versa- unless you can make the mackinaw/retriever mine more efficiently w/o Orca or other hauler support (basically make it mine more or equivalent to a Hulk mining and then the time it would take to fly back to station and grab an orca to haul jet cans etc), the Mackinaw/Retriever will be used by only a small percentage of players.

To the point: CCP, make the Mackinaw/Retriever worth my time as a lone miner and I will use this over the Hulk.


a bit of an ehp buff? are you serious?

BATTLE SHIP TANK = 100k EHP

You seriously dont seem to be calculating in the whole loss of 1 hulk = -300m ISK thats a lot of mining every time you loose one, which during certain times mainly in highsec happens quite often.


It doesn't really matter what kind of buff they give it. If you get scrambled, you are most likely going to die. When mining, agility and speed is everything. You should be gone by the time hostiles show up at your mining spot.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#348 - 2012-06-14 18:52:49 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them. Blink


Seemed rather clear you got either the Battlrship like EHP, or the jetcan sized ore-hold, not both.But yes, Pirate/Goon tears incoming. Also, with huge cargohold, now one can truly "AFK" mine, as opposed to haveing to swap the crap into a can every 3 minutes.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2012-06-14 18:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan
Good news, however, I could not help notice the part of where we need to wait another 6 months for balancing. Why not sooner? This is exactly what I was afraid of.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#350 - 2012-06-14 18:53:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
Tiericide has nothing to do with the Mining Barge changes
…you mean, aside from them removing the tiers from mining barges and exhumers, and giving them distinct roles rather than just be +1 to the previous model (which is exactly the point of tiercide).

Quote:
This is ship rebalancing […] CCP is defining roles for ships.
Exactly: tiercide.


How do you have sooo much patience in the face of willful obliviousness?? I'm in awe!!!


Overall, I think the changes sound good... It will be interesting to see the outcome. I like the role changes to the mining barges, and sincerely hope they maintain the tradeoff between haul, yield, and tank. It sounds like CCP is planning to (i.e. no major tank buff to hulk), but I'm weary of the announced BS-quality-tank exhumer with a "closer yield" to the hulk...

I really like the idea of the hulk gaining a cruiser-quality agility, and having a decent agility - orehold tradeoff to the various mining vessels!
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#351 - 2012-06-14 18:57:47 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
I wonder how many people are gonna complain about barges with battleship sized EHP, especially with large ore holds? I am sure there is going to be a tear or two over them. Blink


Seemed rather clear you got either the Battlrship like EHP, or the jetcan sized ore-hold, not both.But yes, Pirate/Goon tears incoming. Also, with huge cargohold, now one can truly "AFK" mine, as opposed to haveing to swap the crap into a can every 3 minutes.

one might suppose if those "tears" were actually coming they'd be in the thread by now

soz m8 not everyone cries as delightfully as miners

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rek Esket
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2012-06-14 19:03:25 UTC
The primary problem with the non-Hulk iterations of Exhumers is their limited CPU, if you brought them up to the same baseline level as Hulks they'd be far more competitive.
Unforgiven Rage
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#353 - 2012-06-14 19:12:42 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe: strengthening current roles as support frigates. Which mainly means scanning and possibly mini-profession operations, like hacking and codebreaking as well.


Suggestion:

Please give these frigs also 1 bonus for cyno activities and a cargo hold that can store at least 3 cycles of cyno fuel for a pilot with level 2/3 to open cynos.

Thanks
Unforgiven Rage
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#354 - 2012-06-14 19:20:04 UTC
Question:

When the frigs tiers are gone and these changes are in tranquility will the materials of constrution defined in the Bpos/Bpcs be ajusted to reflect this new reality of no tiers and the new ships funtionality in game? If yes when should we expect these changes?
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#355 - 2012-06-14 19:20:33 UTC
Peter Powers wrote:
this looks pretty cool,
and new destroyers are a good idea (love the idea of drone destroyers)

but one thing bothers me
all ships and ship changes lately have been mostly positive for new players,
even when t3 cruisers got introduced, their skill sets where set so they can be trained quite fast.
so when are you going to give us vets a few new toys?

also what happend to t3 in other ship classes?

I'm curious about this as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to have Strategic Frigates and Battleships to pilot. I'm fully onboard with redoing all of T1 to make them all useful ships, as that's been something we've needed for a while, but I hope its not coming at the cost of innovation.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#356 - 2012-06-14 19:25:03 UTC
Quote:
Mining output: first and most visible balancing factor, plan is to increase all barge mining output to be within an acceptable margin of the Hulk, not miles behind as it is currently.
Autonomy: mining barges should have proper cargo holds so they not always have to rely on jet cans (without turning them into industrials however). That means giving them large, specialized ore bays where all the ore will automatically go into when mining.
Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them.
As a result we thus get:

New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience.
Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.
Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.
Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.




My constructive feedback is that I ******* love you. Whoever is responsible, please show yourself so that I can kiss you.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#357 - 2012-06-14 19:25:18 UTC
Quote:
New ORE frig: we want this ship to replace current mining frigates as low barrier of entry vessel, but also fulfill high-end gameplay expectations by providing a very mobile platform for mining in hostile space. Lowest mining output, decent ore bay, little to no resilience.
Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.
Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.
Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.


Looks interesting, but begs to wonder what will be the exact stats and what they call a "battleship EHP" in Reykjavik.

The difference between "ore bay" and "cargo hold" just was a strike of good sense waiting to happen.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#358 - 2012-06-14 19:27:15 UTC
The new mining frigate looks awesome, and I don't even mine! Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#359 - 2012-06-14 19:33:08 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Johan March wrote:
The destroyer changes sound good too, but the old Navy man in me says "destroyer not [strike]shore[/strike] planet bombardment ship". Now special forces team insertion. That's what destroyers do.

That's what happened in the trailer at FanFest, come to think of it. A Coercer dropped a team of DUST mercs onto a planet.


I hate to tell an old Navy guy he is wrong, but the US Navy has often used destroyers for shore and other in-land target bombardment.

I like the way the change are heading. New models would be nice, espeicall if they were based off the stylings of the new Yellow 'Vincent' mining frigate (looks like something from 'The Black Hole meets WALLY') and the Noctis.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
In ViTrIoL
Sons of Ivaldi
#360 - 2012-06-14 19:38:57 UTC
What about a gas harvesting barge!!!