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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#161 - 2012-06-14 14:33:49 UTC
Holy **** snacks. I can't really even wrap my brain around all of that at once, but i know I love every piece of it.

  • Drone frigates, oh my. That could be a wacky good time.
  • It will be great not to have to can mine in a Retriever.
  • The new ORE hull looks spectacular.
  • ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT DESTROYERS. Wow. That is just all of the awesome.
  • We can always use more hulls, and it's about time the destroyer line got some friends. Might I suggest a Minmatar hull that takes cues from the Hurricane and Tornado, just as the Thrasher takes cues from the Cyclone. And pursuant to the orbital bombardment role: guns on the belly or racks on the sides like the Mael. I want to be able to zoom in on the artillery as it volleys Twisted

Eager to hear and see more, way to go devs.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-06-14 14:35:51 UTC
I can't really see small destroyers doing orbital bombardments from orbit. Now, letting them fly into the top part of the atmosphere and doing some strikes would be the bees knees. Or even closer Shocked
Amy Elteam
No Bull Ships
#163 - 2012-06-14 14:36:00 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
If I am not wrong, there is one mining Cruiser for each race.
If you are making mining Frigates non-mining,
will you do the same with mining Cruisers?????
And, will we get mining ORE Cruiser too????? Big smile


What size do you think Barges and Exhumers correspond to?


Packaged mining barges are 3750m^3 - making them smaller than destroyers.
Lili Lu
#164 - 2012-06-14 14:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Moonaura wrote:
All welcome changes from what I can see from this outline.

As a Caldari focused corp, yes, the Cormorant sort of sucks for us compared to a thrasher. Right now we're better off in Merlins.

The Kestrel will need a lot more DPS, smaller signature or more speed to justify using it with Rockets. Right now it's best used as a missile kiter rather than a Merlin rocket equivalent (For which the Navy Hookbill is used instead as it works in that role).

Can I make the suggestion that instead of:

Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe: strengthening current roles as support frigates. Which mainly means scanning and possibly mini-profession operations, like hacking and codebreaking as well.

That they become drone frigates for each race? At least in addition to any side skills. Otherwise they still won't be popular. Be nice to see some of these hulls make it to regular use.

For the fast frigates:

Executioner, Condor, Atron, Slasher: role dedicated to fast interception with weapon systems that support it – in order, energy turrets, missiles, hybrid turrets, projectile turrets.

They need to have at least some of the bonus that an interceptor gets (reduced MWD signature) to really be more useful. The Caldari Condor and it's T2 variants both need some speed increase, as they are by far the slowest of any race. That would be 'Fine' if they kept the Caldari ability to be agile and fast aligning... but they are no better than any other race, which would at least allow them to orbit faster, despite the reduced speed. Both the T1 and T2 Caldari fast frigates have significant issues with capacitor and fitting when using Hybrids, a Raptor for example is hard to make both fast, and cap stable with a warp disruptor and rails and comes in 2000 m/s slower than the Amarr Malediction and has identical align time with a speed fit. The Condor should act as a base for an eventual overhaul of their agility or speed.

But anyway, keep up the good work I look forward to the changes and using these ships more in Faction Warfare Big smile

. . . and your signature - Caldari focused fleet PvP - Join us for 100% Caldari fleets in Faction Warfare and small fleet PvP

Says it all. There is not a point in your post where you don't take off your Caladari cetric glasses. Sure let's give all the Caldari ships more speed and dps. Also let's give them a drone boat, so they lack for nothing and the old racial preferences for weapons means nothing. Yes all ships in this race should keep the most range and best tanks but also have the most speed and agility with which to maintain that range and tanking advantage. Oh and buff ecm . . again. It should be 40% per ship level bonusesRoll

You make me sick :barf:

edit- No other race has cap or fitting or whatever issues, only mine. Buff my ships moar CCP kthnxbyeRoll
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#165 - 2012-06-14 14:38:32 UTC
A clarification about the time line.

This blog is an update on what we are doing this summer (therefore the title 'Ship balancing summer update') to be released this winter and later.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#166 - 2012-06-14 14:41:45 UTC
thanks god you move away from the steam punk mining vessel design. (Nothing against steam punk but it does not fit to eve IMO)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2012-06-14 14:41:48 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Our all beloved spaceships (they make wonderful explosions) are an important part of the New Eden and therefore our developers also apply special love to them. A while ago we announced a grand plan to balance the existing ships.

Now that we had enough time to collected good feedback (thank you for all the constructive discussions) and to think about it, we can present you an update of our plans.

Please welcome CCP Ytterbium and his new dev blog "Ship balancing summer upgrade" where he explains our updated plans and introduces the road ahead in regards to ship balancing. The blog can be read here.

Your constructive feedback is most welcome.


So um.. is there a petition out to give this nice new mining frigate a name.. perhaps.. the "Chribba"?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-06-14 14:49:46 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
I know Eve is all about the pick one: speed, gank, or tank; but mining yield is not gank. Gank is DPS and mining lasers deal 0 dps.

With your groupings do the following:
Procurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense: Extra tank.
Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Extra speed, give these guys a GOOD time to warp, around 6s or less, maybe a built-in warp stab.
Covetor/hulk. Extra GANK! Give these ships the ability to SHOOT. Let them use weapon systems. (without removing strip miners.)


Good luck!



I've been thinking about this a little more:
Procurer/Skiff are playing bait. Give them a bonus to warp scramblers.
Retriever/Mackinaws are raiders. Bonus to warp stab. Frigate-like time-to-warp. Still needs a good Ore hold or there is no point.
Covetor/Hulk are bullies. 7 or 8 high slots, limit 3 strip miners. 4/5 turret and 4/5 launcher hard points (so the pilot doesn't have to choose a second weapon system to specialize). Heavy missiles or med guns.
The idea that a squad or two of hulks going to mine a level 4 mission before it has been fought intrigues me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#169 - 2012-06-14 14:49:47 UTC
Oh, and another thing:

Presumably, the ore bays on these ships will not drop the ore as loot when the ship is destroyed, right?
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-06-14 14:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Orakus wrote:
So um.. is there a petition out to give this nice new mining frigate a name.. perhaps.. the "Chribba"?


There can be only one Chribba- but how about some anagram like Brachbi ?

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Pirmasis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster
#171 - 2012-06-14 14:52:19 UTC
Good news! I like it!

One aditional ship to rebalanse - Primae - best ship for planetary stuff. Make it happen CCP, as DUST514 is comming
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#172 - 2012-06-14 14:52:33 UTC
May I have more suh!


Love It!

Can you consider a burst remodel to go with he changes! Squashed bug as I like to call it.

Love the new mining barge ideas, might make me fly one :)

Where I am.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2012-06-14 14:52:35 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
This is great stuff! Hulkageddon just got a LOT more challenging, and as it should be.

My vote is make the burst a sniper - something about the name just makes sense!


If it was a real Minmatar ship it would have 2 turret hardpoints that can fit MEDIUM turrets. :P

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#174 - 2012-06-14 14:52:42 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
A clarification about the time line.

This blog is an update on what we are doing this summer (therefore the title 'Ship balancing summer update') to be released this winter and later.


Let me clarify your statement. The changes outlined in the dev blog will be worked on over the Summer. The target release data is starting at the winter expansions? Is that correct? If so can we see the frigate changes before then? If I recall the last batch didn't take that long to get out.
None ofthe Above
#175 - 2012-06-14 14:54:06 UTC
Amy Elteam wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
Severian Carnifex wrote:
If I am not wrong, there is one mining Cruiser for each race.
If you are making mining Frigates non-mining,
will you do the same with mining Cruisers?????
And, will we get mining ORE Cruiser too????? Big smile


What size do you think Barges and Exhumers correspond to?


Packaged mining barges are 3750m^3 - making them smaller than destroyers.


Packaged? We don't need no steenkin' packaged! (joke)

I think that's because they are mostly cargo hold, which would be collapsed while packaged.

A covetor or hulk is 200000 m3 assembled. That's pretty squarely cruiser.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2012-06-14 14:55:03 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
A clarification about the time line.

This blog is an update on what we are doing this summer (therefore the title 'Ship balancing summer update') to be released this winter and later.


oh? then what kind of eta to SiSi testing? 2 weeks or so?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#177 - 2012-06-14 14:55:16 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
A clarification about the time line.

This blog is an update on what we are doing this summer (therefore the title 'Ship balancing summer update') to be released this winter and later.


Let me clarify your statement. The changes outlined in the dev blog will be worked on over the Summer. The target release data is starting at the winter expansions? Is that correct? If so can we see the frigate changes before then? If I recall the last batch didn't take that long to get out.



Target for release is autumn/winter, with these changes going into 2-3 different releases.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#178 - 2012-06-14 14:57:30 UTC
I'm sure I'm not the first to bring this up, but I haven't heard it addressed...

If the goal is to remove the tiered structure of the usability of ships within a given class, is any thought being also given to flattening out the manufacturing costs among them? If a Slasher is supposed to be just as useful for its role as a Rifter is for its, should the latter not cost 10x more to manufacture than the former?
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#179 - 2012-06-14 14:57:49 UTC
Victor Twenty wrote:
Great changes CCP, but why do you need to wait so long.... Maybe you should bump up your time table so we can see Cruiser and Battlecruiser changes before end of year!!!!

Keep up the good work.

Vic20



no offense here BUT lets give them all the time they need to get it right
we don't want a half finished or rushed product ,we have seen enough of that

Personally it all looks good

except i am confused as to why you are looking to nerf the EHP on the HULK ?
if anything it should be buffed a bit Hulks are the staple of deep space mining in 0.0
they are designed to tank big rats while cutting away at precious ore, They cost more because they are worth it
Not to mention all T2 barges especially the hulk and mackinaw ,have become cannon fodder in certain activities as of late ,Due to the technetium used to make em ( but hey that's the sandbox right Big smile )

One thing i did have was the comment on making mimnatar use missiles more and i ask that you balance that against the fact that the majority of us mimnatar currently use GUNS and we like GUNS , and we probably didn't train much in missiles
because they were not our mainstay of a weapon system ( so please be gentle Smile )


Aside from these concerns i like where thing are headed and ,yes your new mining frigate looks awesome can't wait to see it in action Big smile
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#180 - 2012-06-14 14:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ban Bindy
Changes sound promising. Despite all the gankers declaring that miners will fly hulks anyway. We will see.

The mackinaw needs more help, in my opinion, but maybe the final product will be better than it sounds. Ice mining is the easiest to gank since there are many times fewer ice systems in Eve.

Still, there's a chance that the golden age of ganking will end. Of course, Goons will find another way to whore for attention.