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Inferno 1.1 Sisi features

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#41 - 2012-06-11 14:16:10 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I would really like it if someone tried out the new UI control I added in the war lists and would give me feedback on how they like using itSmile

it's a new utility menu where you can change settings (like mark your war open for allies) without having to pop up a window and change the setting there. it also has an option to open the war report since some people felt it got lost because it wasn't in a right click, only on double clicking.

Its good but needs to be mouse over not right clickLol

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2012-06-11 14:18:34 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I would really like it if someone tried out the new UI control I added in the war lists and would give me feedback on how they like using itSmile

it's a new utility menu where you can change settings (like mark your war open for allies) without having to pop up a window and change the setting there. it also has an option to open the war report since some people felt it got lost because it wasn't in a right click, only on double clicking.

Its good but needs to be mouse over not right clickLol


there's no right click on it...

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#43 - 2012-06-11 14:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I would really like it if someone tried out the new UI control I added in the war lists and would give me feedback on how they like using itSmile

it's a new utility menu where you can change settings (like mark your war open for allies) without having to pop up a window and change the setting there. it also has an option to open the war report since some people felt it got lost because it wasn't in a right click, only on double clicking.

Its good but needs to be mouse over not right clickLol


there's no right click on it...

true but when people see that icon they think right click Overview works both ways.
I like the fact is stays inside the window toLol

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#44 - 2012-06-11 14:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Just to quickly cover the changes coming to the Ally system, if the costs are kept fairly low, it shouldnt be much of a problem, even when they scale exponentially. After all, someone who *wants* to fight the aggressor will likely just give the defender the ISK if its less than the cost of a wardec.

Also, as a real-world example, we had something like 30+ allies in a recent war, all offered free assistance, and none of who were involved in any kills/losses - its important to note that this isn't the 'mercenary marketplace' which was mentioned, and that should come later, but for now its a way to provide some repercussions for the aggressor.

All this will do is 'moderate' the numbers a little so the defender needs to be a little more selective.

Free 'mercs' != regular mercs who you hire to do stuff.




So once again.

A 9000 person entity wardecs a 100 person entity and needs to pay 50m a week (or something) They have enough isk (obviously) to maintain the wardec as long as they like.

To respond to this currently the defender has the option of adding an unlimited number of allies which might someday add up to a significant fraction of the aggressor entity.

But with these changes even if the concord fee per 2 week cycle was 1/2/4/8/16/32 etc for a baseline exponential increase it would cost a truly ridiculous sum of isk to add enough allies to reach that significant fraction.

Its just clumsy and poorly thought-out knee jerk change.
There are other solutions to the perceived problems with Inferno Wardec system that do not involve this kind of appalling broad stroke reversion of pretty much everything that was good in the new system.

Have the concord fee only kick in when the defender + allies has more total numbers than the aggressor (for example)

Keep the two week contract time and have the allies able to auto-renew if they like.

That solves all the issues raised without giving a vast advantage to people who really don't need it.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Mata1s
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-06-11 14:34:03 UTC
Fix Core Complexion skins
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#46 - 2012-06-11 14:34:36 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

Trilambda

• Minmatar V3
• Re-designed Caldari Drake


And STILL, no love for the Myrmidon texture bug. Fix it, pretty please?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Kashe Kadeshe
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-06-11 14:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kashe Kadeshe
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kashe Kadeshe wrote:
Spyker Slater wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Decreases the time between modification of resistances.


It will also eat my cap faster, except if you decreased that as well?
Is the incoming damage detection cycle separate from the cap consumption cycle? If so, it sounds like a nice thing, but further clarification would be helpful.


No, this WILL increase the consumption on the whole. The cap need is 42, meaning you will now use 84 every 10 second (assuming skill at level 5).
Cheers mate.

Hmmm, not sure if want, then. Not that it's an especially big deal for me (more interested in shield tanking, currently) - but perhaps there could be a skill that reduces capacitor cost of RAH, but one that needs ARP as a prerequisite? Not necessarily to take it back down to 42 cap per cycle, but enough to take the bite out of it doubling.



If someone could share a picture of the new Drake, that would be tops.
Di Jiensai
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#48 - 2012-06-11 14:55:16 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Just to quickly cover the changes coming to the Ally system, if the costs are kept fairly low, it shouldnt be much of a problem, even when they scale exponentially.


Indeed. Then you probably wont mind giving me 1 grain of rice for the first square on the chessboard and double that for each field. After all, the cost is only one grain of rice and that should not be a problem, even when it scales exponentialy.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#49 - 2012-06-11 14:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Removed a Inventory bug to its proper thread.Twisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Wu Jiaqiu
#50 - 2012-06-11 15:07:05 UTC
THE VAGOND AND TFI NO WINGY BITS . I CRY.

GIVE BACK THE SQUARE WINGY BITS NOOOUUUUUUUU...... Sad
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#51 - 2012-06-11 15:12:14 UTC
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
THE VAGOND AND TFI NO WINGY BITS . I CRY.

GIVE BACK THE SQUARE WINGY BITS NOOOUUUUUUUU...... Sad

Its bug reported

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#52 - 2012-06-11 15:12:54 UTC
War dec changes make sense. You should have to shop and compare allies in the mercenary market place. Not have a free dog pile.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#53 - 2012-06-11 15:13:19 UTC
Di Jiensai wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Just to quickly cover the changes coming to the Ally system, if the costs are kept fairly low, it shouldnt be much of a problem, even when they scale exponentially.


Indeed. Then you probably wont mind giving me 1 grain of rice for the first square on the chessboard and double that for each field. After all, the cost is only one grain of rice and that should not be a problem, even when it scales exponentialy.



Yeah, shouldn't be that bad should it. After all in Star Fraction's defensive war against Goonswarm we currently have 33 allies. Lets assume that CCP kindly allow the exponential cost to begin scaling at 1m isk for one ally.

We'll pay.

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1024
2048
4096
8192
16384

etc

Well it'll probably cost us more ISK than exists in the Eve universe by the time we get half way through our allies list.

Fair to say it'll be considerably more expensive than the 50m per week that Goonswarm have to pay though.






The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-06-11 15:17:50 UTC
Just going to jump in this thread to say that, on average, I receive 20 "Ally has joined a war" notifications on any given day, and none of them are friendly.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#55 - 2012-06-11 15:21:08 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
War dec changes make sense. You should have to shop and compare allies in the mercenary market place. Not have a free dog pile.




They make sense if you are a huge alliance wanting consequence-free wardecs against small alliances sure.
They make absolutely no sense if you actually want meaningful numerical balance by involving significant numbers of allies.

All that will happen in this new system is that things go back the way there were pre Inferno and trade hub raiders join Privateers, Orphange and shares the dec cost vs Goons (or whoever) on one alliance and camps trade hubs.

Anyone decced by anyone bigger simply ignores the dec because there is no way to effectively rebalance the numbers via allies without being charged a massive isk disparity over the cost of the initial wardec.

No consequence for declaring entities anymore because there will be no mutuals and aggressors are always free to :forget: the bill.

The casualty of all this is the lovely rainbow coloured allied counter tactic which will be priced out of the game.

And Inferno becomes Damp Squib.

Nobody is going to be "shopping around" to hire mercs from the mercenary marketplace when it becomes effectively impossible to match numbers of aggressors in a cost effective fashion.

At best people may well charge mercs the cost of the concord fee so they can join a war for 2 weeks.

So rather than being able to advertise "come join this war for free" we'll have to say ...

"rather than paying 500m a week to dec goons" come and ally with SF and it'll cost you 1/2/4/8/16/32/64/128 or whatever for two weeks."






The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-11 15:22:06 UTC
Now, imagine that I am not part of the most powerful group in Eve Online, and that I am not controlling your game. Instead, I am some 20-man "merc" corp that wants to make a reputation. So, my corporation declares war against a mid-sized alliance. The next day, there are 20 "Ally has joined a war" notifications. None of them are friendly.

Goonswarm doesn't really care about getting wardecced by every mom and pop operation out there. If we want to kill people, we will kill them. Wardecs have never stopped us from causing tears of unfathomable sadness. What this change does is keep things from getting out of hand for other, smaller groups that declare war. The way the system works now, you could theoretically have every other corporation in Eve ally against the aggressor at virtually no extra cost. And if there's anything the last 9 years should have taught everybody, it's that if there's a mechanic that can be abused, it will be abused.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-06-11 15:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Tessidar
Although I get the feeling Jade is upset because we singled out the Honda Accord because, and this is according to what I've interpreted from Goonswarm official policy, "Jade Constantine is a huge tool and we hate him." Certainly not the worst reason Goonswarm Federation has ever fought someone.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#58 - 2012-06-11 15:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Now, imagine that I am not part of the most powerful group in Eve Online, and that I am not controlling your game. Instead, I am some 20-man "merc" corp that wants to make a reputation. So, my corporation declares war against a mid-sized alliance. The next day, there are 20 "Ally has joined a war" notifications. None of them are friendly.

Goonswarm doesn't really care about getting wardecced by every mom and pop operation out there. If we want to kill people, we will kill them. Wardecs have never stopped us from causing tears of unfathomable sadness. What this change does is keep things from getting out of hand for other, smaller groups that declare war. The way the system works now, you could theoretically have every other corporation in Eve ally against the aggressor at virtually no extra cost. And if there's anything the last 9 years should have taught everybody, it's that if there's a mechanic that can be abused, it will be abused.


So.

1. Concord fee for allies only kicks in if the Defender + allies headcount is greater than the aggressor headcount.
2. For every defender ally that joins when their headcount is larger than aggressor headcount, the aggressors can add an ally too.
3. Ally contracts come up for renewal each 2 weeks, can be set to autorenewal and these don't cost concord fee unless defender outnumbers aggressor.
4. Mutual system contains as is and does not exclude allies.

Do you have a problem with that?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Twg Memitim
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-06-11 15:28:53 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Di Jiensai wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Just to quickly cover the changes coming to the Ally system, if the costs are kept fairly low, it shouldnt be much of a problem, even when they scale exponentially.


Indeed. Then you probably wont mind giving me 1 grain of rice for the first square on the chessboard and double that for each field. After all, the cost is only one grain of rice and that should not be a problem, even when it scales exponentialy.



Yeah, shouldn't be that bad should it. After all in Star Fraction's defensive war against Goonswarm we currently have 33 allies. Lets assume that CCP kindly allow the exponential cost to begin scaling at 1m isk for one ally.

We'll pay.

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1024
2048
4096
8192
16384

etc

Well it'll probably cost us more ISK than exists in the Eve universe by the time we get half way through our allies list.

Fair to say it'll be considerably more expensive than the 50m per week that Goonswarm have to pay though.




hurr lets throw around random number to try and make myself look right. Alternativley, how about this for an exponential scale:

5mil
5.87mil
7.01mil
8.51mil
10.55mil
13.35mil
etc..

that's not so bad is it?
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-06-11 15:33:11 UTC
I don't think you understand what the word "exponential" means.

Don't be sad. Most people don't.