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Is the penalty for suicide-ganking too high?
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#141 - 2012-05-31 23:28:46 UTC
Mcpewy wrote:

Actually I think you need to brush up logi can't jump anymore after repping a agressed person.


Just double checked, repping someone with a 60s violence timer does not in fact give you the 60s violence timer. That timer is what prevents docking/jumping. In HS, you get the 15m "someone can shoot you" timer when you rep somebody, but that doesn't stop you from docking/jumping, hence the continued whines about neut RR.

If you're going to call someone out on knowledge of common game mechanics, it really helps to be right.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mcpewy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-05-31 23:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mcpewy
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:

Actually I think you need to brush up logi can't jump anymore after repping a agressed person.


Just double checked, repping someone with a 60s violence timer does not in fact give you the 60s violence timer. That timer is what prevents docking/jumping. In HS, youth get the 15m "someone can shoot you" timer when you rep somebody, but that doesn't stop you from docking/jumping, hence the continued whines about neut RR.

If you're going to call someone out on knowledge of common game mechanics, it really helps to be right.


Well that needs to change. Nuet repair is gay. Maybe I will start playing station games with my carrier. That's always fun pvp there right.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#143 - 2012-06-01 00:15:06 UTC
Mcpewy wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:

Actually I think you need to brush up logi can't jump anymore after repping a agressed person.


Just double checked, repping someone with a 60s violence timer does not in fact give you the 60s violence timer. That timer is what prevents docking/jumping. In HS, youth get the 15m "someone can shoot you" timer when you rep somebody, but that doesn't stop you from docking/jumping, hence the continued whines about neut RR.

If you're going to call someone out on knowledge of common game mechanics, it really helps to be right.


Well that needs to change. Nuet repair is gay. Maybe I will start playing station games with my carrier. That's always fun pvp there right.


You can have fun however you prefer. If station games are fun for you, by all means play them and enjoy them.

Neut RR is easily fixable. Stop playing on stations and gates and neut RR is just like any other RR.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#144 - 2012-06-01 00:46:17 UTC
I bet none of these people that "think, and in their opinion" (awesome arguments btw) suicide ganking punishment is too low, don't even know what the actual penalty or penalties are Lol

It's just "too low" until it simply isn't possible any more.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-06-01 06:34:43 UTC
jethro tul wrote:
too low huh? Yah let's make the sec status hit lower for ganking in high-sec....because we DONT have enough of those people doing that already. Consider it crowd control then.

Now who needs to HTFU. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah this thread reads like the victim of a suicide gank. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah


Someone didn't read the OP before posting. That's the only thing that made me cry.

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pussnheels
Viziam
#146 - 2012-06-01 08:25:13 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Ganking isn't as easy as one may think. Don't forget the victim only sees the epitome of the gank; that final 10 seconds climax of work the ganker had to do. One mistake, and the gank will fail.

A successful gank takes a good amount of preparation, scouting, logistics and tactical positioning. On top of that there are factors which the ganker can never be 100% sure of such as skills trained.

The "art" of ganking relies on figuring out the cheapest setup(s) for the gank.

Ganking actually takes more work than gate camping, unless you plan to overkill. The best gankers do not overkill and are ready to get the occasional failed gank.

True indeed for a older more experienced pilot ,but this generation of newplayers don t like effort
Also i think there is nothing wrong with suicide tactics , only thing wrong is this whole campaign with the goal to ruin the game and eventually force a large group [i even dare to say the large majority) of players out of the game


I would agree with your statement if carebear ideas were aimed at improving the game, not nurturing it. In my opinion, any idea promoting an automatic/NPC response or consequence does not promote an MMO-style of gameplay, quite the contrary. A nerf to suicide ganking has therefore far less gameplay value than buff to fighting back.

But carebears do invest energy in fighting back: they do so on the forums as it involves no risk in assets.

All jokes about "tears-fueled-ships" aside, they do show one thing: the will to fight back is definitely present only it is used the wrong way (out of game instead of in-game).

We could debate this forever in aconstructive way ,bottom line is that the current situation will only damage or worse case destroy this great game

There are plenty of ideas out there to solve it in a balanced way that will satisfy most of both sides

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2012-06-01 09:08:12 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Hortense Sledgemallet wrote:
If you destroy someones material and the police know about it you will be locked up. Thats how a justice system works and thats how it should work in Eve. If you dont then Concord is just a joke.
This should equate to a high sec ganker being locked into low sec when he commits a crime - low sec becomes the prison.

Destroying a ship in high sec that costs less than 50 mill ISK you should be locked out of high sec for 24 hours.
100 mill - 48 hours
200 mill - 72 hours
300+ mill - 96 hours


EvE blows you up instead of Locking you up. Seems more severe to me.

sure. loosing your bullet when you shot someone is severe punishment for sure Cool

Where is that Elf-country you are living in?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-06-01 09:29:28 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.

The fact that mining is so prevalent suggests that the reward is too high. Continue to fix the loopholes and reduce the yields. At present, mining in highsec is equivalent to sitting at home on a couch and getting free money from the government.


Highsec miners are probably doing this aswell.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-06-01 09:38:29 UTC
pussnheels wrote:

We could debate this forever in aconstructive way ,bottom line is that the current situation will only damage or worse case destroy this great game

There are plenty of ideas out there to solve it in a balanced way that will satisfy most of both sides



EVE is great great game because it allows this kind of gameplay. You take away the great gameplay, the game is no longer great.

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Keia Nomesteturj
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-06-01 12:02:37 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.



Not only does my car not get blown up when I ignore a parking ticket, I also dont get paid a higher amount than my car was worth after the fact.


Welcome to 6 months ago. Insurance doesn't pay out if you get killed by CONCORD.


I wasnt talking about concord.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-06-01 15:26:52 UTC
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.



Not only does my car not get blown up when I ignore a parking ticket, I also dont get paid a higher amount than my car was worth after the fact.


Welcome to 6 months ago. Insurance doesn't pay out if you get killed by CONCORD.


I wasnt talking about concord.


Then what were you talking about when you replied to someone that was indirectly reffering to CONCORD? Because you know... That's what they've been referring to, only using real life analogies. Please tell me, I really want to know.

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Par'Gellen
#152 - 2012-06-01 16:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?
Which can be replaced in minutes. Now, if it took nothing less than a 100+ mil isk battleship to gank a barge then yeah your argument would hold water. Gank dessies don't count as a real loss. Hell neither do gank battlecruisers to anyone with a mission alt. Sec status is so easy to get back up it's not even a real consideration. GCC just means some sitting in a safespot or warping around for 15 minutes while watching TV.

Mallak Azaria wrote:
The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
In the case of an exhumer you are talking about a lot of isk that insurance doesn't cover properly anyway. Platinum insurance payout on a Hulk is just under 60 mil. They sell for 250+ mil.

So. Lets to the math.
A relatively new player gankee loses weeks of time (ore doesn't magically appear in your station hangar) and millions of isk even after insurance (calculator is in Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories if you need it).

A smart ganker loses a few mil and has to do a few minutes of warping to shed his GCC and at most a couple of hours or so of grinding to shed his sec hit.

Again that calculator is in Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories. Give it a look.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#153 - 2012-06-01 16:34:41 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?
Which can be replaced in minutes. Now, if it took nothing less than a 100+ mil isk battleship to gank a barge then yeah your argument would hold water. Gank dessies don't count as a real loss. Hell neither do gank battlecruisers to anyone with a mission alt. Sec status is so easy to get back up it's not even a real consideration. GCC just means some sitting in a safespot or warping around for 15 minutes while watching TV.

Mallak Azaria wrote:
The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
In the case of an exhumer you are talking about a lot of isk that insurance doesn't cover properly anyway. Platinum insurance payout on a Hulk is just under 60 mil. They sell for 250+ mil.

So. Lets to the math.
A relatively new player gankee loses weeks of time (ore doesn't magically appear in your station hangar) and millions of isk even after insurance (calculator is in Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories if you need it).

A smart ganker loses a few mil and has to do a few minutes of warping to shed his GCC and at most a couple of hours or so of grinding to shed his sec hit.

Again that calculator is in Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories. Give it a look.


The isk loss comparison is completely irrelevant to the argument being put forth. You consent to potentially losing whatever you're flying when you press undock.

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HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2012-06-01 16:34:59 UTC
a relative new player doesnt have a hulk so that argument is out the window

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Par'Gellen
#155 - 2012-06-01 16:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
HVAC Repairman wrote:
a relative new player doesnt have a hulk so that argument is out the window

Not notice the word "relatively"? You even said it. *facepalm*

I know many relatively new players in hulks.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Par'Gellen
#156 - 2012-06-01 16:37:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The isk loss comparison is completely irrelevant to the argument being put forth. You consent to potentially losing whatever you're flying when you press undock.

You brought up the comparison. I was pointing out its problems.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2012-06-01 16:44:23 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
a relative new player doesnt have a hulk so that argument is out the window

Not notice the word "relatively"? You even said it. *facepalm*
sorry bro, if you've been playing four months you're not anywhere near being a new player. just because someone is not capable of abstract thought and has no understanding of game mechanics doesn't mean you're relatively new, it means you're lazy which unironically is what most non-bot miners are anyways~

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Par'Gellen
#158 - 2012-06-01 16:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
HVAC Repairman wrote:
sorry bro, if you've been playing four months you're not anywhere near being a new player. just because someone is not capable of abstract thought and has no understanding of game mechanics doesn't mean you're relatively new, it means you're lazy which unironically is what most non-bot miners are anyways~

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relatively

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2012-06-01 16:49:44 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
HVAC Repairman wrote:
sorry bro, if you've been playing four months you're not anywhere near being a new player. just because someone is not capable of abstract thought and has no understanding of game mechanics doesn't mean you're relatively new, it means you're lazy which unironically is what most non-bot miners are anyways~

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relatively
heh i knew you'd froth at the mouf before you finished my post dawg~

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Bill Loney
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-06-01 16:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bill Loney
Personally looking at the perspective from both ends, i think the penalties are too low, and some logical answers in this thread but what i think should be the case.....
If a player does something naughty to get himself to -1, i dont think they should be able to jump into 1.0 systems and the same with -2 shouldn't be allowed to jump into 0.9 and so forth, plus nerfing the miners yield in said security systems to balance it out, would make both sides think again about what they are about to do and eve wouldnt have such a large turnover of players which is dreadful from a business point of view imo, as u want to keep the players not lose them, no matter what they decide to do in eve.