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Is the penalty for suicide-ganking too high?

Author
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#101 - 2012-05-31 15:35:22 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
Nope. You just showed how little you know. It takes time to accelerate up to be able to warp.

I still call bullshit on your arguments.

Btw, nice killstats you have. Roll


25% to 75% takes about 4 seconds. You see a target appear on the overview from over 250km.

Thanks, I like losing ships on my alt :p


Webs. 3 webs on each hulk webbing each other, aligned out to a SS at 75% max speed (should be abot 7m/s). Be sure to fleetwarp rather than warp individually.

Since you're actually trying, instead of simply whining for a ban on ebil people, I figure I'll give you a suggestion.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#102 - 2012-05-31 15:41:04 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Mangold wrote:
On a serious note. I actually think that ganking should be possible in high sec.

I do think that the security status drop should be much higher or that the time to increase your security status should be longer. It's way to easy to gank someone in high sec or in low sec and rat up the security status. Done it myself more times than I can remember.


except I can still gank people even when -10, just takes a bit more work and synchronization to do so,


true. that does feel weird, tbh.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#103 - 2012-05-31 15:46:03 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?



no it's not too high.. a more appropriate question: is reward for mining and industry in high sec is way too low?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#104 - 2012-05-31 16:00:00 UTC
Mangold wrote:
[

Oh really. Everytime some random muppet tries to say he knows his way around pvp and you check their pathetic kill stats they always post with an alt and have some pvp god main. Amazlingy enough that name is always secret.

Btw, here's a link for you. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sensor_Booster_II

Have fun.



You realize a lot of alliances forbit forum posting? And that forces a lot of peopel to post with their alts? Even if jsut to be sure to not slip and post on CAOD with wrong char that would get him in trouble?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#105 - 2012-05-31 16:15:15 UTC
Seishi Maru wrote:
Mangold wrote:
[

Oh really. Everytime some random muppet tries to say he knows his way around pvp and you check their pathetic kill stats they always post with an alt and have some pvp god main. Amazlingy enough that name is always secret.

Btw, here's a link for you. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sensor_Booster_II

Have fun.



You realize a lot of alliances forbit forum posting? And that forces a lot of peopel to post with their alts? Even if jsut to be sure to not slip and post on CAOD with wrong char that would get him in trouble?


Sounds like terrible alliances full of people compensating for small epeens with big shows of ::stoic:: and ::smug::

Why would you ever join an alliance like that?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-05-31 16:15:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


Malphilos wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sometimes you need a break from HIGH DRAMALAMA pvp...


What creates all that drama you feel the need to take a break from?

Wouldn't be "risk", would it? Blink


Note the "Sometimes." The miners are whining that they want to escape risk at "All Times."

Bit of a difference.


Well, if we're going to parse and equivocate we should note that "some" miners are wanting to escape risk at "All Times".

Bit of a difference.

RubyPorto wrote:

Anyway, no the thing that you need an occasional break from is effort. It takes much less effort to kill miners than it does to force PvP. That's still not no effort, but it's less. It's the new version of gatecamping.


Effort? Go on, pull the other one.

Are you trying to tell me that if I fly into VFK I'll have trouble finding PvP? Lol

It takes less effort to kill miners successfully because there's less risk. And all the drama adherent thereto. That's the only effort required, you can find a fight damn near any time you want to.

In truth what you want a break from is risk.
Visian Yagami Valaris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-05-31 16:32:17 UTC
Juess wrote:
When an entire segment of Eve's population refuses obstinently to take up arms, being flagged for PVP by them in High Sec isn't really that much of a penalty. I mean what are they going to do?

I think we all know the answer to that.


+1 to this poster. It's the players who run EVE; not Concord. Woo! Shoot things! ...

Or you know. Hide in station and cry when your hulk gets blown up... that's cool too....
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#108 - 2012-05-31 16:42:41 UTC
Malphilos wrote:


In truth what you want a break from is risk.


There's a difference between suicide and getting a fun, satisfying fight. The first one is easy, the second one takes time, luck, and yes, effort. More important is the change of pace ganking offers.

Again, I enjoy multiple aspects of the game. I have no epeen that needs the stroking of LeetPvP to remain svelte.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-05-31 16:56:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Malphilos wrote:


In truth what you want a break from is risk.


There's a difference between suicide and getting a fun, satisfying fight.


What would you describe as "a fun, satisfying fight"?

I'm betting it involves a whole bunch of risk mitigation and that's where the effort lies.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#110 - 2012-05-31 17:02:40 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Malphilos wrote:


In truth what you want a break from is risk.


There's a difference between suicide and getting a fun, satisfying fight.


What would you describe as "a fun, satisfying fight"?

I'm betting it involves a whole bunch of risk mitigation and that's where the effort lies.


A fight were we're able to hit above our weight class due to good tactics is a lot of fun, and pretty dang satisfying.

Trying to kill someone who I shouldn't be able to is fun (though it usually gets me killed).

Fights that involve maneuver between the two sides trying to get a tactical advantage are always exciting.

And, of course, catching something that's hard to catch is really satisfying, regardless of what fight it puts up after being caught.


I don't know what risk mitigation means to you, but I lose ships at a pretty steady pace. That doesn't look like well mitigated risks to me.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Fuujin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-05-31 17:10:41 UTC
Buff concord response times: sure.
Buff concord response intensity: Why not?
Take away insurance: fine.
Sec hits: ok.
Being able to be shot at by any killmailwhore in hisec: ugh. alright.
Having to do a perfect, error-free dance to remain in a ship once you go outlaw: sure
GCC prevents warp: ouch, but ok

GCC somehow prevents you from boarding ships floating in space in hisec: wtf?

That last one is really a bridge too far. CCP has bent over backwards to accomodate the dense, slow-thinking WoW demographic whose refusal to fit a tank or acknowledge the player-driven, player-competitive (aka pvp) nature of the game has made suicide ganking exceedingly difficult . I don't think its actually possible to coddle these mentally infirm players any further and still retain SG as a viable game mechanic.
The last round of nerfs was to remove "Boomeranging" as a tactic, and I can understand the rationale: skillfully done the art could get pretty broken. But they should have just stopped at shutting off your ability to warp.


The cries from the "carebear" miners are singularly incomprehensible to me. If you want a competition free game where you sit and mindlessly and tediously harvest resources for hours on end for little to no reward: you've made a terrible mistake, Farmville is that way ---->

This is eve, where every single ship can and will be blown up at some point, for any reason--or even no reason beyond a whim.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-05-31 17:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Mangold wrote:
Oh really. Everytime some random muppet tries to say he knows his way around pvp and you check their pathetic kill stats they always post with an alt and have some pvp god main. Amazlingy enough that name is always secret.

Btw, here's a link for you. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sensor_Booster_II

Have fun.


I seem to have missed the part where I implied that my main is some PvP god. It is a secret though :p (You can probably figure it out with little difficulty though).

SeBo doesn't help when you're still coming out of warp.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-05-31 17:22:26 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

I don't know what risk mitigation means to you, but I lose ships at a pretty steady pace. That doesn't look like well mitigated risks to me.


I don't think you need to be good at it for it to be the focus of your effort, but based on your examples it really is the " difference between suicide and getting a fun, satisfying fight", isn't it? Tactics is all about risk mitigation.

What is "advantage" otherwise?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-05-31 17:23:42 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Mangold wrote:
Nope. You just showed how little you know. It takes time to accelerate up to be able to warp.

I still call bullshit on your arguments.

Btw, nice killstats you have. Roll


25% to 75% takes about 4 seconds. You see a target appear on the overview from over 250km.

Thanks, I like losing ships on my alt :p


Webs. 3 webs on each hulk webbing each other, aligned out to a SS at 75% max speed (should be abot 7m/s). Be sure to fleetwarp rather than warp individually.

Since you're actually trying, instead of simply whining for a ban on ebil people, I figure I'll give you a suggestion.


Why would I want a ban on ebil people? I enjoy ganking the odd exhumer here & there. Solely because I find it funny.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-05-31 17:30:02 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Webs. 3 webs on each hulk webbing each other, aligned out to a SS at 75% max speed (should be abot 7m/s). Be sure to fleetwarp rather than warp individually.


So this is the newest way to get people to do something they shouldn't and then get their Hulks destroyed by Concord?
Fuujin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-05-31 17:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Fuujin
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Webs. 3 webs on each hulk webbing each other, aligned out to a SS at 75% max speed (should be abot 7m/s). Be sure to fleetwarp rather than warp individually.


So this is the newest way to get people to do something they shouldn't and then get their Hulks destroyed by Concord?


Protip: players in the same corp can do anything they want to each other (unless its an npc corp).

Whoops, sorry Mr NPC corp guy. But I guess that's what you get for playing with yourself in an MMO.
Drax Dremal
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-05-31 17:36:44 UTC
For EVE to be fair anytime a ship is attacked in high sec the attacker should not be allowed to play for at least a half day or more.
Price Check Aisle3
#118 - 2012-05-31 17:39:32 UTC
Fuujin wrote:
Protip: players in the same corp can do anything they want to each other (unless its an npc corp).

That sounds like a deficiency in the game
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-05-31 17:39:43 UTC
Drax Dremal wrote:
For EVE to be fair anytime a ship is attacked in high sec the attacker should not be allowed to play for at least a half day or more.


And everytime a miner attacks a rock in highsec, the miner should also not be allowed to play for at least half a day.

WHAT DID THAT POOR ROCK DO TO YOU!?!?!?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-05-31 18:22:23 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


Yeah, a T1 fitted artillery ship is soooo much ISK to lose as a ganker. Also, why would you have cargo in the hold when that is what you use your neutral alt to collect from the gankees wreck?