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Is the penalty for suicide-ganking too high?
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Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2012-05-31 18:33:32 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


Yeah, a T1 fitted artillery ship is soooo much ISK to lose as a ganker. Also, why would you have cargo in the hold when that is what you use your neutral alt to collect from the gankees wreck?



A T1 tornado can run upwards of 90M a pop. If you are a billionaire, you can lose 11 of them before you go broke.
jethro tul
Dark Alliance
#122 - 2012-05-31 18:47:08 UTC
too low huh? Yah let's make the sec status hit lower for ganking in high-sec....because we DONT have enough of those people doing that already. Consider it crowd control then.

Now who needs to HTFU. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah this thread reads like the victim of a suicide gank. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-05-31 18:56:09 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?
Yes, easily.

The gank ship is cheap.
Sec status losses can be easily gained back.
15 minute GCC timer is a joke.
No insurance payouts for a cheap ship is negligible.
Friend or corp mate loots and salvages both wrecks.
Ganker and his friends actually profit from said activity.

Yep, penalties are too low.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#124 - 2012-05-31 18:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Shea Valerien
IMHO, suicide ganking generally shouldn't be worthwhile. It should only be worthwhile to take out cargo ships carrying unusually valuable cargoes and very expensively equipped ships. Suicide ganking isn't some difficult pursuit. It just takes enough people willing to gang together and be able to properly fit ships to alpha/2 strike a target. Also IMHO, suicide gankers should get more return on their time from engaging in things like faction PVP, WH and nullsec adventures.

I don't want suicide ganking to be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable.

Right now the penalty is too light for suicide ganking.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-05-31 19:39:44 UTC
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.

The fact that mining is so prevalent suggests that the reward is too high. Continue to fix the loopholes and reduce the yields. At present, mining in highsec is equivalent to sitting at home on a couch and getting free money from the government.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-05-31 19:49:27 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
The fact that mining is so prevalent suggests that the reward is too high. Continue to fix the loopholes and reduce the yields. At present, mining in highsec is equivalent to sitting at home on a couch and getting free money from the government.


Technetium...
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-05-31 19:55:08 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Technetium...

We've been campaigning for tech nerfs for months now. But we'd be stupid to not exploit the money shower while it lasts.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2012-05-31 20:18:49 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
IMHO, suicide ganking generally shouldn't be worthwhile. It should only be worthwhile to take out cargo ships carrying unusually valuable cargoes and very expensively equipped ships. Suicide ganking isn't some difficult pursuit. It just takes enough people willing to gang together and be able to properly fit ships to alpha/2 strike a target. Also IMHO, suicide gankers should get more return on their time from engaging in things like faction PVP, WH and nullsec adventures.

I don't want suicide ganking to be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable.

Right now the penalty is too light for suicide ganking.


If suicide ganking really was as profitable as you're letting on, why would any ganker give a flying **** about a paltry 100mil per 10 killing blows? That's chickenfeed in the face of real moneymaking.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Mcpewy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-05-31 20:45:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:


Actually no i don't know how a ganker does his thing, i don't do it. I know i can right click a orca open ship hanger and hit board ship on one of the ships and the ship pops out and i get in it. So yeah i know how a orca works but i don't know how you guys gank. Did not think about jetting the ship out so i admit was a bad idea. I know mechanics but not how the the gankers do thier thing.


You were confused about the simplest HS aggression mechanics. You don't know about the mechanics of the space you live in.



Actually sorry to burst your bubble but i live in Null sec and am in the CFC currently in 1dh. I also have a account that is in FW now that there is a new Fweddit Corp and a indy alt in high sec. Most of null sec is carebear they just choose not to be guarded by concord. They completely jew out constantly, join fleet when one pops up then right back to making money. Most in null don't know mechanics i see plenty of numbnuts in every crop no matter if your goons, test, Fa whatever.

I would say most null does not know how to pvp i am there i know. Look at home defence fleets lol a bunch of carebears running around dieing trying to defend but they don't know how to pvp. I am working on getting better at pvp so i joined the FW corp. i sure didn't learn it in all the fleets i join and i follow commands and hit f1 when told.

If they finally fix ganking i will be glad. Force all the gankers into low and null sec so we can get more fights out there. Nothing like a good old hour roam with noone to shoot at in null cause everyone wants to just jew and hide in the stations. I choose to live in Null but i don't force it on everyone else. I got a idea how bout this old school UO rules once you go red 3 times your permanent red. You guys whine to much and got it easy in eve being able to repair your sec status quit being carebears about sec status take it like a man and go permanent red no fixing status. Flag accounts if they biomass more then 5 times to be reviewed. No reason to have to delete characters over and over.
Vito Antonio
Doomheim
#130 - 2012-05-31 21:17:05 UTC
Its not about penalty being too low or too high, there is no penalty at all for the following characters:

those who stay at -10

throwaway alts on main and on alt accounts

I see no way to penalise them both without incurring flood of suicide ganker tears.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#131 - 2012-05-31 21:39:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Webs. 3 webs on each hulk webbing each other, aligned out to a SS at 75% max speed (should be abot 7m/s). Be sure to fleetwarp rather than warp individually.


So this is the newest way to get people to do something they shouldn't and then get their Hulks destroyed by Concord?


Ok, since you seem incapable of rubbing more than two braincells together, I'll help you.

To mine in this manner:

1) Install EvE Online, the Massively Multiplayer Online Game
2) Enter the game with your character
3) Join a corp to intereact with other players in this Multiplayer Game in a positive way
4) Fit your hulk
5) Undock
6) Warp to a belt
7) Web your corpmated
8) Aling to a Safe
9) Turn on mining lasers
10) Mine.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#132 - 2012-05-31 21:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Mcpewy wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:


Actually no i don't know how a ganker does his thing, i don't do it. I know i can right click a orca open ship hanger and hit board ship on one of the ships and the ship pops out and i get in it. So yeah i know how a orca works but i don't know how you guys gank. Did not think about jetting the ship out so i admit was a bad idea. I know mechanics but not how the the gankers do thier thing.


You were confused about the simplest HS aggression mechanics. You don't know about the mechanics of the space you live in.



Actually sorry to burst your bubble but i live in Null sec and am in the CFC currently in 1dh. I also have a account that is in FW now that there is a new Fweddit Corp and a indy alt in high sec. Most of null sec is carebear they just choose not to be guarded by concord. They completely jew out constantly, join fleet when one pops up then right back to making money. Most in null don't know mechanics i see plenty of numbnuts in every crop no matter if your goons, test, Fa whatever.

I would say most null does not know how to pvp i am there i know. Look at home defence fleets lol a bunch of carebears running around dieing trying to defend but they don't know how to pvp. I am working on getting better at pvp so i joined the FW corp. i sure didn't learn it in all the fleets i join and i follow commands and hit f1 when told.

If they finally fix ganking i will be glad. Force all the gankers into low and null sec so we can get more fights out there. Nothing like a good old hour roam with noone to shoot at in null cause everyone wants to just jew and hide in the stations. I choose to live in Null but i don't force it on everyone else. I got a idea how bout this old school UO rules once you go red 3 times your permanent red. You guys whine to much and got it easy in eve being able to repair your sec status quit being carebears about sec status take it like a man and go permanent red no fixing status. Flag accounts if they biomass more then 5 times to be reviewed. No reason to have to delete characters over and over.


You live in Lowsec but don't understand the difference between an agression countdown and GCC. You live in Null and didn't know that Logi are free to jump gates/dock at any time while repping.
Those are kind of important mechanics.

Also, Post with your Main.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#133 - 2012-05-31 21:47:30 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
The fact that mining is so prevalent suggests that the reward is too high. Continue to fix the loopholes and reduce the yields. At present, mining in highsec is equivalent to sitting at home on a couch and getting free money from the government.


Technetium...


The CFC has been actively campaigning about a Tech nerf since they started taking Tech. Saying Tech needs a nerf is like saying EvE is a submarine game; it's self evident given about 5s of thinking (which Akita T did when r64s were nerfed in favor of Tech).

Besides that, Moon Mining is significantly more involved than Afk mining in HS. You actually have to Defend the moons from attack. Regardless of the size of the fleet you can field/easily afford to lose, forming a fleet to defend a POS takes a fair bit of effort.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#134 - 2012-05-31 21:49:28 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
IMHO, suicide ganking generally shouldn't be worthwhile. It should only be worthwhile to take out cargo ships carrying unusually valuable cargoes and very expensively equipped ships. Suicide ganking isn't some difficult pursuit. It just takes enough people willing to gang together and be able to properly fit ships to alpha/2 strike a target. Also IMHO, suicide gankers should get more return on their time from engaging in things like faction PVP, WH and nullsec adventures.

I don't want suicide ganking to be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable.

Right now the penalty is too light for suicide ganking.


Then change your fit and make it unprofitable to gank you. If every miner did this, HAG would die fairly quickly.

The income v outlay ratio of a suicide gank depends entirely on the CHOICES the potential victim makes when he fits his ship and undocks.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-05-31 21:58:11 UTC
Prison, perm-death and the removal of SP would be the only real punishment for a capsuleer.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-05-31 22:02:52 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:

I don't want suicide ganking to be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable.
.


If you take loot out of the equation - how is ganking profitable? (other than being employed to gank)

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Little Brat
Provincia Septim Reborn
#137 - 2012-05-31 22:06:48 UTC
x

Our corporate symbol is a blue Egyptian Ankh representing pure eternal life, surrounded by 8 gold stars representing The Eightfold Path on a red background representing sacrifice and committment to the everliving, beloved of Ptah...
Keia Nomesteturj
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2012-05-31 23:07:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.



Not only does my car not get blown up when I ignore a parking ticket, I also dont get paid a higher amount than my car was worth after the fact.
Mcpewy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-05-31 23:16:17 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Mcpewy wrote:


Actually no i don't know how a ganker does his thing, i don't do it. I know i can right click a orca open ship hanger and hit board ship on one of the ships and the ship pops out and i get in it. So yeah i know how a orca works but i don't know how you guys gank. Did not think about jetting the ship out so i admit was a bad idea. I know mechanics but not how the the gankers do thier thing.


You were confused about the simplest HS aggression mechanics. You don't know about the mechanics of the space you live in.



Actually sorry to burst your bubble but i live in Null sec and am in the CFC currently in 1dh. I also have a account that is in FW now that there is a new Fweddit Corp and a indy alt in high sec. Most of null sec is carebear they just choose not to be guarded by concord. They completely jew out constantly, join fleet when one pops up then right back to making money. Most in null don't know mechanics i see plenty of numbnuts in every crop no matter if your goons, test, Fa whatever.

I would say most null does not know how to pvp i am there i know. Look at home defence fleets lol a bunch of carebears running around dieing trying to defend but they don't know how to pvp. I am working on getting better at pvp so i joined the FW corp. i sure didn't learn it in all the fleets i join and i follow commands and hit f1 when told.

If they finally fix ganking i will be glad. Force all the gankers into low and null sec so we can get more fights out there. Nothing like a good old hour roam with noone to shoot at in null cause everyone wants to just jew and hide in the stations. I choose to live in Null but i don't force it on everyone else. I got a idea how bout this old school UO rules once you go red 3 times your permanent red. You guys whine to much and got it easy in eve being able to repair your sec status quit being carebears about sec status take it like a man and go permanent red no fixing status. Flag accounts if they biomass more then 5 times to be reviewed. No reason to have to delete characters over and over.


You live in Lowsec but don't understand the difference between an agression countdown and GCC. You live in Null and didn't know that Logi are free to jump gates/dock at any time while repping.
Those are kind of important mechanics.

Also, Post with your Main.


Actually I think you need to brush up logi can't jump anymore after repping a agressed person.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#140 - 2012-05-31 23:18:55 UTC
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.



Not only does my car not get blown up when I ignore a parking ticket, I also dont get paid a higher amount than my car was worth after the fact.


Welcome to 6 months ago. Insurance doesn't pay out if you get killed by CONCORD.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon