Missions & Complexes

That's actually an amazing idea. +1

DJ You and the other FCs deserve it. Personally I have no desire to FC but I appreciate and respect all the FC's that are willing to put the work, and patience into it and it only seems fitting that the longer a fleet runs the more the FC should be rewarded for the effort. And I dont think this should just apply to Incursions but any pve fleet.

As for the Logistics pilots... I agree as they are a crucial part of the fleets they should get the same rewards even something minor like standings.

But back on topic. I think removing either the Mara's or the Niarja's from the OTA's could bring them back in balance from a dificulty/time perspective. I'm not really sure what might need to be changed for the NCO/NMC's. We seemed to be doing relatively good against those.

Possibly moving the hacking arrays to within 70k-ish of the fleet warp in. Currently, the hacker is limited by the speed of the fleet if he wants to stay in rep range. Yes you can move logis between the arrays and the fleet but that's suddenly neglecting all of those remote reps and transfers your BSes are carrying. This is being discussed here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=102984&find=unread (although not constructively).

I can understand the desire to randomize spawns a little bit and the need to kill the whole spawn was an effect of random spawns (otherwise you could end up with completely random triggers). Spawns, and probably unit types, need to be tweaked to deliver the same amount of DPS without adding an additional 5-7 targets to kill. So up the number of battleships or tweak cruiser dps. Take Mara's off the trigger requirements..

Another option is to remove the "kill the wave" mechanic and randomize the supporting units. So for example in an NMC, keep the Tama's waves a constant (and still the trigger), but randomize Niarja, Mara and Auga spawns. Keep us on our toes a little bit. Ignoring 4 or 5 Maras might become a tactical mistake.

That is a logic facility. Incursions generate nothing of real value, as isk have not much value in itself and concord LP are not much used.
Miners generate ore, ore which can be used to refine to minerals, which can be used to build ships. At each of those steps value is generated. Buying those ships does not generate anything. Blowing those ships up generate demand, which is good because without demand the production chain would fail.
All activities that just generate isk are mainly inflations factors, as isk has limited use besides trade. Only npc items can be "created" via isk > LP Store Items and Skillbooks mainly.
Ask yourself. If everyone would just farm sanctums, incursions and missions, would there still be any ships left to buy with all the isk generated?

Still, incursions should be balanced in relation to other isk generating activities, like missions and anomalies, and as well at least partly balanced compared to production related activities like mining, t3 production, etc

Currently incursions seem to be unbalanced at least to missions, which could be fixed with either increasing incursion isk or decreasing mission isk. I would prefer the later, a general bounty nerf sounds good to me.

Well, not everyone that does incursions lives in K-space all the time. As I've said over and over, my alliance live in wormholes. We don't quite have your alliances infrastructure to make anywhere near as much profit from W-Space yet.

I substitute my income with incursions, I don't sit in a VG blitz fleet for hours at a time grinding. I do Assault and Headquarter, because I feel they are more challenging and enjoyable in general. I just wish there was more reward for our effort.

And no, we aren't all multi-boxing, most if not all fleet commanders I know have a strict policy against people duel boxing. (with exception of out of grid boosters for fleet bonuses)

W-Space isn't that dangerous if you prepare and are careful... we had an incident the other night where a K162 opened up into a C5. The people inside came in and chased down our Sleeper site running fleet. We managed to evade the large fleet they had with no loses. Keeping scouts on WH's and checking D-scan regularly isn't hard to do. If we had enough people online we would have fought them... but our numbers were about 1/3 theirs.

I dont know what kind of sleeper running fleet you have, but probably a few drake

anyway, if you can do that in wspace, it also means incursion is even safer since there's no bubble in HS

Still patiently awaiting a dev response that properly addresses our concerns.

Just an update, I am reading through all this feedback and we will be making a more detailed post next week about our own findings. I have also had some really valuable feedback, both while the changes were on SISI and now they are on TQ, from the owner and co-owner of BTL pub and other long-term Incursion runners. I have even run Incursions on SISI with them to see how they felt about the changes live.

I don't have anything concrete to tell you right now, but I just wanted to make an update post to let you all know I am still reading this and we do care!

I fully understand that a lot of you are angry but if we could all try and aim for constructive feedback from now on, it will help quicken this process a lot.
''I HATE IT ALL!! YOU SUCK'' <-- an example of a post that isn't going to help.

To dispel any myths - The changes on SISI and TQ were exactly the same, this isn't even up for debate as it's just a fact and it's just how our development process works.

Can you possibly explain to me, maybe it's something I've just not understood or missed.

But why are Incursions the only instance in eve, where the harder, longer more effort involved actions (headquarter sites) are the lowest income per hour, when compared to the lesser sites. Such as Assaults and Vanguards?

If this same strange structure was ported over to mission runners, no one would ever go above lvl 2 missions..

I can understand that incursions weren't meant to be farmed at Vanguard levels to the point of almost exploitation. it's my opinion that they were supposed to build up to bigger fleets and bring more people together... A lot of small Vanguard fleets, leaves a combative feeling and resentment within communities. But building up to Assaults and Headquarters brings more groups of people together. But the incentive to make bigger fleets isn't there People are more likely to leave incursions back to mission than build up to Assaults. When there is no real financial benefit to make more effort and take bigger risks.

Please stick to your guns on this one.

Everyone who was NOT an incursion farmer (including CCP) could see the problem with the initial system. People should not have been able to make anywhere near that kind of money in "safe" space, that is supposed to be the inherent purpose of eve's sec status system.

I live in null sec and make my isk mostly by shooting npcs in anomalies in an upgraded system (dual boxing a mach and a tengu usually, it's NPC slaughter I tell you)). ONE GUY with a cloaky ship coming into system and staying there can shut me down, but im not complaining about that, that's actualy something to balances the fact that I can make so much an hour shooting rats that respawn. Either I have to stop, or (more liekly) i alert my allaince to a possible hotdrop and refit as cyno/bait (and a good time is had by all :) ).

Then I went and took a nightmare into a few shiny incursion fleets with a buddy of mine who is in one of the more well known incursion corps. OMFG, I made the same kind of isk with one ship in high sec in an incursion fleet that it takes me 2 ships to make in null. sure, in the incursions there were 10 other folks (one of grid boosting), but there was NEVEr any shortage of incursion pick up fleets looking for shiny ships even if I hadn't already hooked up with my buddies corp.

Of course I liked the isk and LP (bought some +6 implants when i had enough), but it just kind of bordered on obsecene to me, it was obvioulsy broken. i thought level 4 missions in high sec was bad (I still think that), but this is worse.

So please, stick to your guns, you shouldn't be able to do what people were doing before, not in high sec where there is less risk.