Missions & Complexes

aren't incursion exactly the same???

anyway, if you say as if wh that easy, why are you still in kspace??

Null-sec is not the risk-filled environment as perceived by some. And that's coming from a five-year null bitter vet. Yes, it takes great *effort* to carve out a chunk of null-sec territory, but the day-to-day risk of losing a ship is marginal.

Additionally, null-sec earnings on a per-character basis are no more than those living in high-sec considering some of the expenses associated with null.

Beacause it was injecting too much isk in the economy and because the reward/risk ratio was out of whack compared to other activities.

However they dun goofd up.

^ not sure if serious....




Point of fact, to my knowledge you didn't mention the HQ nerf at all before it hit TQ.

Getting people to go test things on SISI is difficult, though....when I tried we could barely hold 10 people, much less keep enough for an assault fleet up. Perhaps something like this could be treated something like a mass test, next time? You could put the changes on SISI, and announce that, for example, whoever can gather x amount of LP in an incursion would get free skillpoints like in the mast tests.

Contrary to the popular belief, EvE existed before incursions and there were instances when people trusted complete strangers, it would result in scams.

All carebears ay?

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13139972

That is what happens to carebear fleets in WH. I wish high-sec incursion carebears would stop bitching about how they've been slightly nerfed.

There is no risk in running incursions in high-sec, the NPCs are easier than those of a C6 WH and there is no risk in being ganked.

QFT

the point made is that the changes on tq and sisi was not the same, and you had reports saying it was overnerfed at sisi and yet you forged ahead and deliverd a even more crippling change to tq
also everything you did flies in the face of stated goals from the devblog, so the opinion that the changes made from sisi wasnt tested nor documented is quite clearly true

There is some truth to this. Incursions were generation 8 trillion a month through a relatively low percentage of the population. Not quite the 26 trillion from bounties, but enough to compare to WH isk generation.

Dr EyjoG stated during fanfest that incursions were not the problem, but rather a balance issue involving too much isk being made by a select percentage. The possibility of 410 million isk per day seems like a lot, but I know a good many market traders, complex runners and wormholers that make a billion overnight.

Yet, this hardly warranted an immediate, rushed fix. That's exactly what this was. Affinity, your team rushed to push this out before the patch without collecting the proper data or really analyzing the impact this would have. 20 days of Sisi testing was nowhere near enough. Please include the need for urgency in the dev blog also.

Incursion populations were on the rise. Perhaps we were all drawn towards the isk faucet, but I'm willing to bet a good percentage of the population were just glad to have a source of income that didn't involve mechanics that have been around for 9 years (and don't involve living out of a POS).

The real issue facing the eve economy, as Dr EyjoG said, is a lack of isk *sinks*. More isk is coming into our wallets than leaving it. The solution is not to **** off your subscribers by ruining their activities, but to give us more content to spend our hard-earned isk on. Revert these changes and do this right.

Also, the low-risk issues of incursions have been discussed. Safety in incursions was/is an illusion. 2 people can run 10/10 sites.

just to correct the statement....should read lack of isk sinks.

He also stated during the discussion that the total amount of money coming in (faucet) to whole economy was over 50 trillion per month while the money going out (sink) was only about half that. So....

Even if you take incursions out entirely you would still have a large imbalance to the faucets vs sinks. Prior to incursions they absolutely should have know that adding another faucet would only compound this issue. Again, they stated incursion money wasn't the problem and that real issue was lack of balance of faucet vs sink. Also as so many have stated, there are plenty of other ways for people to make as much as or more isk running incursions. So the whole argument about how nerfing incursions was to bring the economy back in balance is BS.

I completely agree with the OP. I agree that vg's needed a nerf and honestly for the past year I've been predicting a large nerf or a removal based on story and plausibility. But as CCP has opted not to remove incursions, I think they have nerfed them a little too hard. One or maybe 2 of the changes would have been sufficient to balance vg payout per time invested.

Since the changes:
Fleet composition has become more specific and exclusive to compensate for the increased difficulty and public/pick up fleets are just gone. (At least I havent seen a single random fleet doing vg's since the patch)

Shiny fleet groups (such as BTL, ISN, SAQD, DTM etc) have been less active as it has been harder to fill all the roles required. For example the group I usually fleet with ran almost around the clock, replacing people/FCs as necessary and splitting into additional fleets when enough people were waiting. Since the patch, it has taken up to 7-8 hrs for the same group to get a single fleet running and the fleet runs for as little as a few hrs.

Prior to the changes, random pick up fleets took 5-6 min per vg (time is from start of one site to start of following site) and organized group fleets (BTL/ISN etc) took about 4 min. Site times are now averaging 7 minutes for organized fleets. Almost double the time for 90% of the previous payout which means ISK/hr is down about 40-60% depending on how smoothly the fleet keeps running.

In summary, I think that while a nerf was needed for balance, the number of changes have caused an imbalance in the other direction. As it is now Vanguards are as profitable as Lvl 4 missions but require the teamwork and coordination of 11 pilots in roughly 2+billion isk ships.

Also I'd like to propose that CCP consider a LP or ISK bonus for Fleet commanders. These guys work hard to tag targets, keep a waiting list, broadcast aligns/destinations, remind you to pull drones or when to start running the ore and a multitude of other things on top of flying and shooting... please show the Incursion FC's some love!