Missions & Complexes

This is wrong, the 0.0 has always been encouraged for isk.
The high is no good for isk.
Many player no live 0.0, Because, he have no time to play long time and there is quite a constraint.
Only the low sec is very very bad for the isk and very discouraged.
It is a great mistake to discourage all the isk low sec because it can be an interesting pvp.
Need more real isk in blet in low sec. (npc faction, loot meta4, officier, ore)
also, the really profitable incution into low sec, because it is much more dangerous than low sec, he isn't dangerous intro 0.0 in the ally.

The truth here is that some fleets could make 160 mil/hr but that is only during peak optimal conditions. We're talking shiny blitz fleet catered to do OTA's, running nothing but OTA's in that hour. having no competition, not having to wait for sites to spawn, and not having to swap anyone out in fleet. How often does that happen? Rarely. Now that is for shield fleets. Legion fleets could make that and more doing NCO's, but again we are talking optimal conditions here.

The reality is that most decently run fleets were making about half that. Pug fleets were making even less. Then when you factor in taking breaks, keeping fleet comp together, site competition, waiting for site spawns, etc etc. All those things drop the isk/hr substantially and it only gets worse during peak times or when there are fewer incursions availble. Then you add in the fact that more and more people were running incursions and this again was already reducing the isk/hr due to more frequent over crowding. So again the reality here is that most incursion runners were only making on average 60-100 mil isk/hour. That is really nothing go all QQing about. There are many other places you can make that kind of isk and more.

I think most people agree that the blitzing fleets making 160/mil an hour needed to stop. Granted again that is only during peak optimal conditions but still, that isk/hour potential is far greater than many other isk earning opportunities in the game. However CCP has gone WAY to far with this nerf.

First off lets talk potential isk/hour. As it stands today, If you were to optimize your fleet to run only NCO's you can do them in about 5min. So in total peak optimal conditions you might be able to make 120 mil isk/hour. The problem with that is your fleet is going to be totally screwed in other sites where nmc's might take you 10min and OTA's will take you much longer than that. So that isk/hour number is rarely going to happen. So even with optimal conditions (shiny fleet, no competition, no breaks/waiting) your maximum isk potential is about 70mil isk/hour. The reality is that you will have breaks etc, so you fleets will only be making about 50-60 mil isk/hour. Now those numbers are for nice shiny/experienced fleets. Pug fleets are going to make half that. The end result here is where are talking about a earnings potential reduction upwards of 50%. Sure, many who run incursions love the community aspect and this is a big part of it. However the fact is that we all need to make isk and these drastic cuts in earning potential is forcing people to make the decision to go elsewhere.

So what has this done.....

- Many of the incursion groups/channels have gone quiet. Experienced incursion runners, as well as a number of fc's, have seen their isk/hour drop so dramatically that they have decided to go do other things in eve because they can make more isk/hour.

- Those who are still interested in running incursions are spending hours trying to find fleets and this includes those with nice shiny ships.

- Those fleets that are running have got wait lists so long that most people end up dropping off before they even get into a fleet, and those people will likely end up just giving up on incursions all together becuase it just takes too long to get in to a fleet.

- PUG fleets are non existant. Again, the isk/hour has dropped so low for these groups that they just can't be bothered with them anymore. Plus, with the added focus fire of npc's, as well as time it takes to remove dps off the field, vanguards have become much more risky for these groups and the risk/reward is far too great for them to be worth doing.

- Without PUG fleets, new pilots/incursion runners no longer have an avenue to get into running incursions. The end result is that the talent pool for pilots will VERY quickly dry up.

The end result of all of this is that CCP has effectively destroyed incursions and the incursion community. You will have a scattering of shiny fleets that might still run vg's as well as some that might move to assaults. For many though, the risk vs reward just isn't worth it to make the move. You'll have the usual suspects that currently run as/hq's that will continue to do so. But, eventually the talent pool will dry up and even those with large and experienced communities will start finding it hard to maintain their fleets with the resulting impact on isk/hour causing many to just give up on incursions all together.

CCP, you stated that incursions were one of the best things to come to eve and that community aspect was something you wanted to maintain. Then you turn around and destroy it. GREAT JOB CCP!

While I agree, you have to admit the a decent rewards helps to make good content better. Not that incursions are that good content, but they are better content than L4s and should give better isk than l4 imo. Which they not seem to give anymore, which leads me to my call for a mission nerf.

Perhaps they pulled head from ass and realized Incursions were actually one of the worst thing they had ever added to EVE. Also as evidenced by all the whines it was mostly about the risk free fountain of ISK not any community BS.




So there's lots of players waiting to get in an exiting fleet rather than taking the initiative and forming their own with all these others waiting?

well i am going to make it my goal to crack the code of incurtions . Drop the time down to 6 minutes per site. Put it up on youtube. And give all you haters the middle finger :D chao bello

I like incution, but I do not do without an income / risk appropriate
It was already difficult to get a fleet before, so now it's really unrealistic.
I like the isk for my asset, i no need, i have isk for buy 2000 year accout
And win 300/ 500 day with other account without having too look, if I do not incursion i win 1,5/3B day (with Exaggerating)

And I will applaud your tenacity and creativity. If you can put together a group that will put in the time to learn how to optimize the new system, you'll deserve every bit of isk you make.

High Sec Incursions do not have to deal with potential player threats like those in Null and Low, so no they're not the same. Likewise your question regarding C5s, there's substantial risk in operating in Wormholes, there's barely any in High Sec Incursions. But yes there was no need to nerf Null and Low Sec Incursions.

Suicide ganking logi's and logi griefing are not risks... Oh thank the stars I never realised how easy we had it.

Fact is in the null and low sec incursions you are set up primarily for PVP and any threat you face you form up a fleet to fight. With your countless scouts that cover all the systems leading into the incursion areas.

Us in hi-sec need to form pug fleets now and again... and even in our established and trusted community some people can turn around and grief people just for the lols or to make a quick bit of pocket change.

So I'd say yes we do take risks... because we're not all part of the same alliance... Also I've done low-sec incursions a couple of times. I know they are a lot more secure than people make out... if they weren't so profitable why are they doing them is the obvious point to make.

As for the C5's i already essplained in another post... They have their system in lockdown before they start farming, camps on every wormhole leading in with bubbles up and most likely the hole sitting on critical. So the chances of them actually being attacked by a force that could do damage to them is highly unlikely. Also to the fact of if someone wanted to attack them they'd have to go through several other wormholes before finding a connection to the C5. Several holes deep. So the chances of a random roaming fleet finding you that far into the rabbit hole it's almost non existent risk.

If someone wants to grief a high-sec incursion fleet, they only have to open up their journal and set destination to the nearest one.

Just stealing a quote from a different thread:

"Despite the numerous claims that Incursions were all about the social aspect and fleeting up and having fun, nobody wants to run them now that they don't pay as well and people might actually lose ships."