Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Edited: link to the original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597

So trolls just killed the old WiS thread... time to summarize a bit.

From the old thread, we could see how were raised thee stances on the implementation of WiS:

Stance one, by CCP: there's a long way to Tipperary and we ain't laced our shoes yet.

Essentially, what CCP is doing is to prototype gameplay (which, as i pointed out, could actually be used for their other games too, and not necessarily for EVE). This is a part-time job for Team Avatar, which, although recently raised the head count to 7 developers, effectively lacks workforce to achieve anything that could be implemented in game this year. All the recent and in progress developments by Team Avatar are leftovers of Incarna which probably would have been released in winter 2011/summer 2012. As for the prototyping job, it's currenlty non-shareable and pretty much looks like dungeon raiding, a kind of PvE gameplay uncommon in EVE. The stated goal is to develop gameplay first, then develop WiS itself.

This is done, presumedly, on the assumption that WiS would fail for lacking gameplay content, despite the fact that many players took at face value the "social gameplay" implied for Incarna, plus the promise of further gameplay later.

The prospects for getting any WiS content down this path are uncertain as, it all depends on CCP actually asigning resources to WiS, which is not clear from the "EVE circle of life" presented in Fanfest 2012. The "circle of life" could imply only FiS and no WiS at all...

Stance two, by some players: the fast and dirty road

The "fast and dirty" road to WiS would be to implement social content on the existing WiS infrastructure -namely adding limited multiplayer to the current CQs, then add further multiplayer areas along with social interaction tools (/emotes) and additonal customization options, The advantages of this approach are scalability of resources, that it is fast, and it actually is what WiS players had "bought" from Incarna.

Of course, social WiS would be esentialy a glorified chat and most of the actual content would be emerging content; the gameplay woud be whatever people would do with the tools provided. This, ironically, is what EVE is all about, more than actually "ride like" PvE content. Also, social gameplay would require beefed up customization, which in turn could open a door to some actual vanity MT.

The prospects of convincing CCP to take this road are slim, but nonetheless it's the clearest hope of getting actual WiS in 2013 and not on a way longer schedule.

Stance three: not in my EVE

This stance is represented by our beloved trolls, from the dumber ones to the cunning ones suggesting that WiS becomes a separate project, and preferably one without any actual influence on EVE.

The few people with a legitimate concern abut WiS, do so misled by the impression that the Incarna disaster was caused by WiS, a point that has been disproven many times. Also, nobody defending WiS asks that it is prioritized upon pending FiS content, which is pretty sensible but also generous as, all in all, WiSers are the last guys in game to get a broken feature nobody is gonna look at for years. Actually WiS is the first featureless feature in the history of EVE, an accomplishment hard to beat.

Puns aside, it is obvious that most people who oppose WiS do so for the same reason as this forums are so busy: they aim to spoil somebody else's fun and tell them how to play the game.


So, these are the three stances on WiS. With any luck, this thread may last long and allow to discuss the virtues and faults of each stance, and to keep showing that we still want to open the door.

Option 2 would be great
At least then CQ could be used for more than just a new and interesting way to watch porn

I think they left the W out of WiS. My toon walks like a model on the slowest runway in the world, and the overall movement is nowhere near fluid or responsive. It's torturous to try to get from the ship to the captain's quarters due to the speed.

The movement experience is so detached from the well-polished room the character is in. I don't understand how this feature even got released in its current state. What were we supposed to do with it?? Gawk at the lighted screens... for how long?

I'm not against WiS in a general concept as an added feature for the casuals, but this should have been left in the can until you had something we could actually use. I'm sure that's been said a million times but I've never commented on it so here ya go :p

Frankly, i was too discouraged after listening to the art panel video and didn't cared about what was being said elsewhere. So i didn't listen to the "circle of life" stuff. And don't really care, as EVE is ex-sex to me. Been there, done that, glad we ended it. Nothing new, nothing left.

And my intuition is that CCP is neither serious nor honest about WiS.

Initially I was kind of puzzled on WTH were doing 5 top notch developers in such a small team with such unclear goals. As evidence has surfaced, ti turns they're not working on it full time, and what they're doing is finish leftover stuff and prototyping avatar gameplay. Litherally avatar gameplay... for avatar-based games. Not starship-based games.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. My intuition has proved to be quite more reliable than CCP.

As far as I know I'm the only one who has pushed for that, because I want to see something happen. I do not believe that CCP will deliver us the type of WiS content we expect if it is left to a small team. We'll see small things, but nothing spectacular.

I still maintain - if we want decisive action and real results - we need a full development team with proper funding and a focus on delivering something.

I have explained how the game can be both separate and part of FiS with character re-use in a seamless environment. I have explained the motivations behind it.

I will ask you to please read that and try to understand it. I am definitely not pushing for it to have no actual influence on EVE; it has to be in EVE universe and I've proposed gameplay and elements that would put WiS / Avatar gameplay as the core for social and industry in the EVE universe.

In any event, read this thread. (Or even just the first post - although the rest expands on gameplay) It explains my position very well. Maybe that will help you to not misrepresent/troll it in future.

Picture the industrial heart of a science fiction universe, from corrupt planetary governors through to the seedy bars and smuggling houses. Imagine people gathering to meet with their corporation friends, contacts and factors from distant empires over a drink, a game of chance. Imagine the view out over a cityscape of starscrapers with craft gliding between them. Imagine the time spent coordinating a strike with the mercenaries you hired from Dust 514, going over the battle plan or just relaxing afterwards.

There is a lot that can be done. Throw some ideas at me here, please

The thing is, EvE doesn't have to be like that. Try and picture a scene like this taking place in a bar somewhere in Metropolis:

You walk into the bar, and the first person you see is your contact -- he's hunched over the table in the rear, his face obscured by the shadows cast in the wake of the overhead lamp.

You've come a long way to meet this man. The 'item' you want cost a small fortune, and it took three weeks for him to find it, but find it he did. Rumor has it that he paid off a few pirates to make sure it got back in one piece...

You don't know his name. Just his face, from the brief, cryptic conversations you had over the Summit link in the early hours of the morning.

You approach the table...

And as you move to sit down, three more figures step from the corner, and your so-far-profitable day goes straight to hell.

Now, imagine that your contact is a real person. Not some AI or an NPC, but a real living being, who one day decided that you just weren't paying him enough and decided to shop around for an employer who would be more 'accomodating'.

There's just one hitch: his new patron is willing to pay a lot more for the very goods that you expected to recieve tonight.

What happens next? Negotiate, fight, or flee? Or do you backstab him in revenge?

EvE is about the 'sandbox'. How you play -- and how you deal with the unexpected -- is up to you.

Bitterness and Displeasure? Tearing up? No tears here, just resignation and acceptance. I'm done with wasting time discussing something that isn't going to happen. Dev's have been prototyping this concept since 2006.



Overwhelming rage? Tantrums? Bittervetting? Ranting? Ultimatum? I'll just say this - "Physician, heal thyself." Normally I would view your replies as a personal attack trolling for a flame war but quite frankly, I'm tired of this crap and I'm not going to play the 'insult and report' game anymore. I just wanted to clarify a few things.

By the way - Factional Warfare and every other game content, broken or unfinished, has had from the very beginning an interactive aspect of it which allowed players some semblance of game play. WiS Incarna has no game play associated with it. Why? Because development resources were spent on the NEX Store which is the main problem. The Captains Quarters were quickly created specifically to facilitate implementation of the NEX Store. Hell, if the CQ's had allowed players the option to create custom interiors along with the ability for other players to view it (Video Phone, Conference Calling?)..I'd consider that as the start for game play content giving the NEX Store a viable reason for existence.



I'm sure you've placed a lot of time and thought into your proposal and it more than likely has a lot of good aspects. It might even be close to CCP's ideas and actual plans. Right now I just can't get behind the idea of having another different game interacting with Eve Online which would also undoubtedly require paying for another subscription. That's the one thing I dislike about DUST514.

CCP has stated from the very beginning that Eve Online is meant to be a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. I always thought they were just talking about EVE itself. It never dawned on me that it would be a few games with different environments doing limited interaction between each other. But it does make sense. Probably easier to implement and definitely creates more revenue for CCP. I can see the marketing ads now, 3 games, 1 universe, Eve Online. Eve = Space combat. DUST514 = Planet combat. Avatar Intel = Station combat.

lol. I've always been the type of player who only pay's and plays one game at a time so the way I look at it, this game will never truly be a Virtual Reality Universe for me. Anyway, I'm tired of dealing with and thinking about this whole thing.



Very nicely stated and almost sums up my view point pertaining to this whole situation.



Short, sweet and to the point.
I like it and as far as I'm concerned, you've basically hit the nail on the head.


Well, that's it for me. Time to put this situation to bed and let it rest. I'm done dealing with this issue and I wish lot's of luck to those continuing to fight the good fight. I would love to see WiS Ambulation fully implemented into the game but I don't see it happening for quite a while.

also to the op, what are those "dungeon" gameplay you speak of, please linky.

Yeah, I can see how that could work. If you define some low-sec region of a station and some valuable contraband that can only be traded there, this type of gameplay could emerge.

You do have to be careful about the balance though. Once you allow PVP combat in an area, there is a good chance it will cease to function as a seedy bar and simply become an arena. So you need to add some consequences for fighting which are strong enough to discourage it most of the time. Not impossible either, but would require a bit of subtle balancing to get the "seedy" atmosphere right.

(Plus, the incarna engine would need to support combat, and that may push this type of gameplay to the very distant future indeed.)

This is the kind of game design that we haven't yet seen. WiS has been promoted for years by videos showing cool people doing cool things in space stations. But they're far detached from feet-on-the-ground reality, because there are no suggestions of how the game will work to encourage those types of scenarios. They could be fun, but will they really work in practice? You'd hope that CCP thought the mechanics through somewhat before making a promo video - but then we get the candid (and appreciated) admission last autumn that the gameplay they'd designed for WiS wasn't actually that much fun.

Anyhow, often the scenarios people present to sell the WiS game, particularly things like "drinking beers with your corp-mates in a bar surrounded by exotic dancers", just seem like novelties which don't have any substance behind them or lasting value. And when all of the promotion is at such a superficial level it's hard to know what we're actually getting, so my enthusiasm is pretty muted.

Sorry, OP, if that puts me in your anti-WiS troll category.