Ships & Modules

Then you shouldn't make grandiose claims about what CCP has said.

Because those changes had nothing to do with balance and everything to do with market efficiency — specifically to remove unwanted bottlenecks in the entire T2 production line, which were then, inevitably, replaced by new bottlenecks.

So no, cost is not a factor in balance.

No, I remember it just fine. So fine, in fact, that unlike you, I remember that it had nothing to do with balancing ships or items.

Incorrect, of course, but keep piling up those fallacies — they will really help your (complete lack of) argument.

Yes, those changes were made to reduce the costs of T2 ships. There was no other need to remove the bottleneck. Like you say, it is all only a matter of demand and offer.

Sure, but at that point, things like performance, usefulness, and balance become rather trivial matters, do they not? You're after the item itself, not its use. If you're in that mode, then price/performance ratios become rather irrelevant and the price, alone, becomes the thing that has to be “conquered”, so a high price — no matter how awful a thing you get for it — is the draw.

The distinction that he's trying to make, I believe, is this: is the Hulk the goal, or is it the top-of-the-line mining the Hulk enables? Granted, the player might not consciously make the distinction, but isn't it more likely that it's actually the latter that is the goal, and the Hulk is just a means toward that goal?

…which means it had nothing to do with balance, since the ships themselves did not change in any way. So still no, cost is not a factor in balance.

If the argument isn't one you like, you ignore it anyway. This has been pointed out by a number of people over the past. I'm sure you'll ignore that too.

It was one of many changes CCP did to address price balances. It was one of the greater ones I can remember. It is enough to proof that the price of an item is subject to game changes. QED.

The other guy and expecially you, are pretending to legislate how everybody else should play. Like broken records. I have news for you: nobody cares.

I make or buy what I make or buy because I like to. The price tag is no issue since something has not to be expensive to be coveted.
If I want to make money to afford it I have just to play the market or something financially profitable.

Some of the financially profitable things could be a ship, and a ship that does good at its role. It's a plus.
For many, the top ship for what they like IS their goal, because this is the spaceships game. Yes, even a stupid mining ship can be the goal, because not everybody are out to kill each other. I know enough hard core miners who go in ecstasy talking about having bought the mining COSMOS implant or having put some stupidly expensive mod on their Hulk.

It's their game, it's their end game, it's their goal and nobody has the right to disrespect them.

Yes, you did question it. Actually you denied it, but this is not the point. CCP did respond to the players' demand to do something about the prices and they changed it.

Normaly I don't agree with Lady Spank but this time he is right :(

Even in -1.0 systems you can fit a tank on your Hulk which is good enough to tank the belt rats. As you KNOW "neutral = bad" you will never stay in a belt with anythink but blue in local. This isn't posible in high as you couldn't mine at all with all the neutrals there. And most times you have a 5+++ system warning time via intels.

With all the safty of local+intel you can fit realy expensive stuff (pith A-type small booster + hardener) with very low risk to ever lose it. In high sec it will just make you an even brighter target.

In addition you can mine high end ore which improves your ISK/h imens.

You have just one risk: how to haul the ore to Jita which is no problem with jump frighter.

Just thought I'd leave my 2 cents.

I mine in nullsec. I fly 3 max yield hulks, with more than enough tank to take on any rat spawn. You need to spend about 120mil more on fittings (not 300 like someone said). If you can't figure out how, you're either failing at EFT or just haven't trained your support skills up. Either way, for my purpose, it's working decently. For highsec? Not so true as the rats are not the problem.

Tippia, I read most of your posts, and I'd like to present you with a little challenge.

Find me a ship, of any type, that costs 200/300mil, that's fitted for max yield at it's role (if it's combat, it's a basic glass cannon), fitted with as much tank as it can after max yield.

Now name me a single one that can be killed by 2 destroyers that cost less than 10mil with fittings in under 10 seconds! :)


Fittings screwing you over on that challenge? Not a problem. Find a ship that's similar in cost to the hulk, both with no fittings. Find me one that dies faster than a hulk.


While I was reading this thread, I gave this some thought and every single ship of similar cost survives better than a hulk, regardless of role. Damn, even a T2 Hauler survives better than a hulk and it costs half (or a third now!) as much.

In the end, I really don't care if the hulk is buffed in HP or PG or whatever point. Just thought I'd add something to this discussion ;)

End-game null-sec mining ship:

-COVOPS Miner, so you can steal ore right from under the nullbears' noses and transport it to high-sec. Hey, null is supposed to be full of competition right? Maybe this way this statement will have a grain of truth to it.

-High-Sec Miner: 100k EHP, more cargo hold (so you don't have to jetcan), less yield.