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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#481 - 2012-04-11 23:50:53 UTC
Oh and just as a side note.

Mineral price is allready and new skys. With Hulkgeddon it will reach new dimansions.
Be prepared to pay 100m for a Drake or Hurrican and 400m for your favorit battleship ;).

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

malcovas Henderson
THoF
#482 - 2012-04-12 00:00:04 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:

So you claim the opposite, that EvE is a game of acquiring gear, that the ultimate goal of EvE is to posses some piece of equipment?

This is certainly not my goal and have never heard CCP promoting and advertising the game that way. Quite the opposite, the game is promoted as a game where what you DO matters, not a game where what you OWN matters.


Everyone playing a game has goals. In EvE to attain those goals you have to acquire gear. (maybe with the exception of market players]


Karim alRashid wrote:
False. I need better quality ship in order to tackle more difficult tasks, not in order to achieve some abstract "advancement".


Is not tackling more difficult tasks, advancement?


Karim alRashid wrote:
Yes, but this in no way supports the argument that the goal of EvE is to acquire gear.


To fly the rifter, you have to acquire the rifter


Karim alRashid wrote:
It may be their intermediate goal, but certainly not their "endgame".


I have already stated that EvE has no end game. V.V. stated that a factor to the Hulk, being a popular ship, is that Miners consider the Hulk to ultimate ship for their proffession



Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#483 - 2012-04-12 00:00:29 UTC
I'm still waiting to see how ridiculously OP you people think the Hulk should be.

I want numbers. Everything else is bleating. Tell me what babies you are if you want the Hulk to be buffed.

Show me how much EHP it should have, how much PG/Cargohold.

Go on. Prove you're not all just big crybabies and give me the numbers.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#484 - 2012-04-12 00:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Darth Gustav wrote:
I'm still waiting to see how ridiculously OP you people think the Hulk should be.

I want numbers. Everything else is bleating. Tell me what babies you are if you want the Hulk to be buffed.

Show me how much EHP it should have, how much PG/Cargohold.

Go on. Prove you're not all just big crybabies and give me the numbers.

Numbers?

Take slot numbers from Command ship, remove weapons, add mining laser.
EHP, defens, aligne time stay the same.

PS: to reach a decent cargo hold I trade 50% high slots. Typical Command has 8 high, so take 4 high.
"To get a decent cargo ORE decide to use the free weapon space as additional cargo".

Does not need to be as big as it is now. I allready menationed a Hulk misses 4 low/mid slots compared to a Command. So let's upgrade from 2/4/3 to 4/6/4. I offer half the base cargo (1500m3) as it would be posible to compensate the lose with Cargo Expander.

A tank fitted Command can reach 150.000 EHP without a problem and still do it's job as gank-booster (3 links as intended, NOT max for off-grid AFK cheating).

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#485 - 2012-04-12 00:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aranakas
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
I'm still waiting to see how ridiculously OP you people think the Hulk should be.

I want numbers. Everything else is bleating. Tell me what babies you are if you want the Hulk to be buffed.

Show me how much EHP it should have, how much PG/Cargohold.

Go on. Prove you're not all just big crybabies and give me the numbers.

Numbers?

Take slot numbers from Command ship, remove weapons, add mining laser.
EHP, defens, aligne time stay the same.


This seems fair. No reason for a miner's bread and butter to not have the same defenses as a missioner's bread and butter, considering they (the miners) earn the same amount or less for a larger investment.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#486 - 2012-04-12 00:06:15 UTC
That will not tank 400M in hulls in any way, shape, or form.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#487 - 2012-04-12 00:09:12 UTC
The problem is with bleaters like this for every inch they get they WAIL louder for the mile that they actually want.

He wants to mine AFK risk-free.

Not even single-player games let you do that do they?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#488 - 2012-04-12 00:16:53 UTC
They will not buff the hulk, but they are trying to better mining and they are changing the way aggression works everywhere. Who knows how these things combined will effect the game in the long term.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

Digital Messiah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#489 - 2012-04-12 00:20:15 UTC
So you are saying it is fair because a miner who doesn't have combat skills gets kill rights? I'm sure they are going to warp right to their hanger, grab their pvp ship that can not only find said pilot after a few gate jumps. And of course proceed to chase them into their possible null sec home or 1v1 with their superior combat skills?

No one is going to sit around to "possibly" get ganked by the person they just ganked. And further more, even if they did... They most likely have better skills and a ship to fight them. Not to mention could just as easily play station games until the other player gets bored, dies, or their right to kill them ends.

The current system is flawed. So I guess CCP needs to either pod gankers with concord. Or try to keep hulk ganking from being an eve online past time. The fact that it is a seasonal practice alone makes you realize how borked it is.

Something clever

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#490 - 2012-04-12 00:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Digital Messiah wrote:
So you are saying it is fair because a miner who doesn't have combat skills gets kill rights? I'm sure they are going to warp right to their hanger, grab their pvp ship that can not only find said pilot after a few gate jumps. And of course proceed to chase them into their possible null sec home or 1v1 with their superior combat skills?

No one is going to sit around to "possibly" get ganked by the person they just ganked. And further more, even if they did... They most likely have better skills and a ship to fight them. Not to mention could just as easily play station games until the other player gets bored, dies, or their right to kill them ends.

The current system is flawed. So I guess CCP needs to either pod gankers with concord. Or try to keep hulk ganking from being an eve online past time. The fact that it is a seasonal practice alone makes you realize how borked it is.



Actually what I expect them to do is fit tanks and use their scanners.

Barring that, mine aligned and change targets on the fly. Warp the moment they have visual on potential hostiles.

But what THEY expect to do is sit AFK and fatten their filthy wallets while rules lawyers bawl it up to CCP to protect the poor innocent tykes from the big bad wolf.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#491 - 2012-04-12 00:22:48 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
The problem is with bleaters like this for every inch they get they WAIL louder for the mile that they actually want.

He wants to mine AFK risk-free.

Not even single-player games let you do that do they?

Dude, I can't mine at all (except Arbitrator with T1 mining drones). With none of my chars.

I'm just not such an ******* to not see the fail in balance and I don't try to defend this fail like you.

Do I want to PvP? Sure, I do it every day!
Do I need such an eazy target for my e-peen? No!
Does it mean I just star "fair fights"? For sure not *g*. Enter the space of my ally and you are dead. Doesn't matter if you fly a shuttle or multi billion mothership.

BUT as I like EVE I know this game can just survive when all professions are balanced. Not just the one I prefare.
Without miners (and highsec miners too) I can't buy ships or equip as I have sero interest in mining+production.

With the lose of drone regions I allready know the price will rise like crazy.
If Hulkgeddon starts and the ore from all this highsec miners is missing too I allready know T1 stuff will become crazy expensive.

And don't let's forget: 90% of all AFK highsec miners are ALTS FROM 00/low guys!!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#492 - 2012-04-12 00:24:59 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
The problem is with bleaters like this for every inch they get they WAIL louder for the mile that they actually want.

He wants to mine AFK risk-free.

Not even single-player games let you do that do they?

Dude, I can't mine at all (except Arbitrator with T1 mining drones). With none of my chars.

I'm just not such an ******* to not see the fail in balance and I don't try to defend this fail like you.

Do I want to PvP? Sure, I do it every day!
Do I need such an eazy target for my e-peen? No!
Does it mean I just star "fair fights"? For sure not *g*. Enter the space of my ally and you are dead. Doesn't matter if you fly a shuttle or multi billion mothership.

BUT as I like EVE I know this game can just survive when all professions are balanced. Not just the one I prefare.
Without miners (and highsec miners too) I can't buy ships or equip as I have sero interest in mining+production.

With the lose of drone regions I allready know the price will rise like crazy.
If Hulkgeddon starts and the ore from all this highsec miners is missing too I allready know T1 stuff will become crazy expensive.

And don't let's forget: 90% of all AFK highsec miners are ALTS FROM 00/low guys!!

What you are actually on-record as saying is that 400M in hulls should be required for 400M in hull.

That's 200 fitted destroyers, if not more.

Do you stand by your statement or retract it?

I am still waiting.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#493 - 2012-04-12 00:25:58 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Actually what I expect them to do is fit tanks and use their scanners.


We allready prove decent buffer tank fit is imposible.

And it is allready mentioned, that scanner is useless in high as you can't allways jump out as soon as some neutral enter the system.

And we allready prove, that a decent gank can kill ANY Hulk equal of fitting in less then 10 seconds (Hulk alligne time 17.4 seconds!!!!!!!).

So who do you try to impress with your lies?

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#494 - 2012-04-12 00:29:12 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Actually what I expect them to do is fit tanks and use their scanners.


We allready prove decent buffer tank fit is imposible.

And it is allready mentioned, that scanner is useless in high as you can't allways jump out as soon as some neutral enter the system.

And we allready prove, that a decent gank can kill ANY Hulk equal of fitting in less then 10 seconds (Hulk alligne time 17.4 seconds!!!!!!!).

So who do you try to impress with your lies?

Your proof was pretty epic ****, too. A booster and an extender? A MWD on the Hulk?

Scanner is not useless. Period.

If you mine pre-aligned (LIKE I SAID) then your align time is zero, right? Then exactly what excuse besides "AFK" do you have if you just do it right?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#495 - 2012-04-12 00:36:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
This has probably already been said several times, but buffing the Hulk so it has a better tank is not the answer. All this will do is encourage more players to AFK mine to their heart's content.

Mining at its core is the problem and needs to be completely reworked. If it weren't so godawfully sleep-inducing, people wouldn't care how crappy their Hulk's tank was and how quickly they get ganked, because they would actually be present at their computers to keep it safe in the first place.

It needs to be more interactive. Not safer.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#496 - 2012-04-12 00:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
grrr, forum eat my post :(

TL;TR

Vulture can reach 200.000 EHP without problem
Trasher with artis ~2.000 alpha
Tornado with artis ~12.000 alhpa

200.000 / 2.000 = 100 Trasher
200.000 / 12.000 = ~17 Tornados

17*70m (jita price) = 1.190m ISK without fitting

And this only with coordination via TS/VENT/MUMBLE.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#497 - 2012-04-12 00:55:16 UTC
You don't even need a super tank.
Fit a 15-20k ehp hulk and mine beside the guy that fits his hulk with a civilian shield booster.
Once he gets ganked, it's time to move. Cool

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#498 - 2012-04-12 01:02:59 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

If you mine pre-aligned (LIKE I SAID) then your align time is zero, right? Then exactly what excuse besides "AFK" do you have if you just do it right?

ROFL, so stupid.

Do you expect miners to be allways at 75% speed? cool story bro, then you are out of range before the stripe cycle ends.

Just stupid.

NO! Alligne time is not sero, not even with your false math.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#499 - 2012-04-12 01:03:58 UTC
Roime wrote:
There are no suicide gankers outside hisec



well.. DUH!!!

that's kind of the point of low / null ... right? no suicide ganking...
it's only SUICIDE if CONCORD will show up.
should you need it spelled out better, they don't show up outside of highsec.
so the hulks get popped just as often, if not more often, and those doing the popping don't even lose their destroyers.

seems to me that the hulk is not balanced against it's cost... that said, most t2 ships aren't... especially compared to some of their faction counterparts.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#500 - 2012-04-12 01:12:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…so how many 1600mm plates do you usually fit your Iterons with?
and when was the last time you spent over 200 mill on an iteron? i mean can you buy them from then please!
Quite irrelevant.

The point is, they're both the same kind of ship: a non-combat industrial-type ship meant for one thing and one thing only (and, just to repeat that: it's not combat). You can still squeeze 30k EHP out of a Hulk, and that's fairly respectable for what it is and what it's supposed to be doing.

You heard it here for folks.

COST IS IRRELEVANT TO SHIP EFFECTIVENESS


Do you ever think, or does your **** posting diarrhea work automatically?