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Ships & Modules

 
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so the hulk WTF CCP?!!?!?

First post
Author
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#501 - 2012-04-12 01:18:05 UTC
I haven't had a chance to test it but the only thing I can come up with for a Hulk is ECM drones. If it works, I'd like to see CCP double the drone bay of the Barge lines so they can run Medium ECM drones and still have bay for 5 small combat.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Adunh Slavy
#502 - 2012-04-12 01:18:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
How many players fly a certain ship or a ship class is important for the balance.

Why are we even discussing this? This should be basic stuff for you.


Tippia can't admit this basic idea that ship cost in materials and SP is a form of balance, because that would throw his/her/its entire argument off kilter. It will simply ignore and equivocate its way out of having to adress this.

Of course it will also cite that hulks are popular ships, ignoring the long standing SP ease of going from a covetor to a hulk, while at the same time turning around and saying player preference, (determined by cost, ability and SP) isn't a factor.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#503 - 2012-04-12 01:20:53 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

If you mine pre-aligned (LIKE I SAID) then your align time is zero, right? Then exactly what excuse besides "AFK" do you have if you just do it right?

ROFL, so stupid.

Do you expect miners to be allways at 75% speed? cool story bro, then you are out of range before the stripe cycle ends.

Just stupid.

NO! Alligne time is not sero, not even with your false math.


Plus there's not one suicide ganker who does not have scram. Warp to cloak "reference" ship, warp scramble and then you can have all the aligment you want that if you were not looking in those 3 seconds before you get locked, you are melted.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#504 - 2012-04-12 01:36:01 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Do you expect miners to be allways at 75% speed? cool story bro, then you are out of range before the stripe cycle ends.
No, you won't be.

You'll be moving at 65m/s. You keep your lasers on target over a ~30km trajectory (a bit less, unless we're talking about a very small asteroid or a very magical Hulk). At that speed, you can stay on target for ~450 seconds — 7½ minutes. That's enough for 2½ cycles, or about 11k m³ worth of ore. With command support, you get even more out of those 30km, and you might even get more than 30km to get more out of… that's a lot of “more.”

Quote:
Numbers prove balance.
Actually, most would argue that numbers prove imbalance. But that's besides the point: numbers do not determine balance — they are not a factor in how two ships are balanced against each other. Instead, it's the opposite: the balance between two ships will influence which of the two you'll see in larger numbers.

Same goes for price: price is not a factor in determining how two ships are balanced against each other. Instead, it's the opposite: the balance between two ships will influence what the ships' respective prices will be. You cannot adjust the balance of a ship by adjusting its price, because people will happily pay that price to get the advantage (or, conversely, they will ignore a lousy ship no matter how cheap).

Quote:
Hulk is an exception as (allready mentioned) there is just ONE high end mining ship. Not 4 (T3) or 12 (BS) different.
Funnily enough, this thread, and many of the threads it has spawned, contains claims to the opposite: that there are actually two high-end mining ships and that the Hulk isn't really the more worth-while of the two…

Adunh Slavy wrote:
Tippia can't admit this basic idea that ship cost in materials and SP is a form of balance
Congratulations on missing the point completely. You are wrong, as always. The argument is that you cannot balance a ship with price because it doesn't actually stop anyone from getting the ship — see above. Price is not a factor in balance because it doesn't actually balance out anything. No matter how high you price something to “balance” its superior stats, people will obtain the resources required and start using it, and now you have something that is inherently unbalanced wreaking havoc in the game.

By the way, you still haven't been able to provide any specific argument that I have ignored. It's safe to say, at this point, that this is because you have none. Case closed.

Whitehound wrote:
Yes, the numbers of players flying a ship or a ship class is very important for determining the balance. Ships do get changed when they are flown too often.
…and it's still not the numbers that determine the balance. The numbers are an effect of the balance, and CCP (or more commonly the players) look at those numbers to infer that something is or isn't balanced about the ships. The imbalance is with the ships themselves. No matter how the numbers look, the balance is determined by the ships and their stats. No matter how the numbers change, unless the stats change, the balance isn't altered. Likewise, price does not determine balance — if anything, balance determines price. High price is then also an effect of balance, not the other way around: balance is a factor in price; price is not a factor in balance.
Adunh Slavy
#505 - 2012-04-12 01:42:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Congratulations on missing the point completely. You are wrong, as always. The argument is that you cannot balance a ship with price because it doesn't actually stop anyone from getting the ship — see above. Price is not a factor in balance because it doesn't actually balance out anything. No matter how high you price something to “balance” its superior stats, people will obtain the resources required and start using it, and now you have something that is inherently unbalanced wreaking havoc in the game.



You're the one missing the point because it is convenient for you to miss the point (read ignore) and blame others for your bull headedness.

Nothing new here, same old tactics.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#506 - 2012-04-12 01:45:51 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
You're the one missing the point because it is convenient for you to miss the point (read ignore) and blame others for your bull headedness.
…and you're still unable to point out what's being missed.

You have been asked to prove your nonsense. You have been unable to do so. So proof or shush, puppet.
Adunh Slavy
#507 - 2012-04-12 01:46:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
You're the one missing the point because it is convenient for you to miss the point (read ignore) and blame others for your bull headedness.
…and you're still unable to point out what's being missed.

You have been asked to prove your nonsense. You have been unable to do so. So proof or shush, puppet.



ROFL - you are so blind.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#508 - 2012-04-12 01:47:32 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
ROFL - you are so blind.
Prove it.
Adunh Slavy
#509 - 2012-04-12 01:50:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
ROFL - you are so blind.
Prove it.


That the argument came around again and you slobered all over it with your standard refrains proves it, little fish.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#510 - 2012-04-12 01:50:57 UTC
Yo guys keep arguing, and I'll just keep mining in my tanked hulk while you guys lose yours to a thrasher.P

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#511 - 2012-04-12 01:53:53 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
That the argument came around again and you slobered all over it with your standard refrains proves it, little fish.
Prove it.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#512 - 2012-04-12 01:58:41 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:


But what THEY expect to do is sit AFK and fatten their filthy wallets while rules lawyers bawl it up to CCP to protect the poor innocent tykes from the big bad wolf.



again, you can safely mission afk, whys it such a HUGE EVE sin to mine AFK?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#513 - 2012-04-12 01:59:30 UTC
Titans cost 60 billion ISK

Titans proceed to ruin "endgame" nullsec regardless because people obtain the advantage at any cost

The pie is a tautology

Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#514 - 2012-04-12 02:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Grumpymunky wrote:
You don't even need a super tank.
Fit a 15-20k ehp hulk and mine beside the guy that fits his hulk with a civilian shield booster.
Once he gets ganked, it's time to move. Cool



ya you dont have to be the fastest

Just faster than the guy you trip

Wonder how much longer till ibtl since this thread's gone from the topic to individual fighting between the ppl IN the thread

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#515 - 2012-04-12 02:44:08 UTC
looks like the thread restarted here:

go here

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Lanasak
Doomheim
#516 - 2012-04-12 02:45:22 UTC
wow look at this, a 42k ehp hulk

http://i.imgur.com/2kY32.jpg
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#517 - 2012-04-12 02:46:59 UTC
huh 400 000 million isk to get 40 k ehp which can be ganked by 4 tornadoes which cost half the price of the hulk... cool beans man...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Lanasak
Doomheim
#518 - 2012-04-12 02:49:54 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
huh 400 000 million isk to get 40 k ehp which can be ganked by 4 tornadoes which cost half the price of the hulk... cool beans man...


okay

would the gankers go after your 40k ehp hulk or the paper tanked hulk with a civilian shield booster next to you? obviously the latter

would they even USE four tornadoes on you? nope
Lanasak
Doomheim
#519 - 2012-04-12 02:50:32 UTC
also I have a solution for evading artillery ganks

orbit a can
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#520 - 2012-04-12 02:50:40 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
wow look at this, a 42k ehp hulk

http://i.imgur.com/2kY32.jpg


doesnt anything under 50k still die to a dessie? Cause I saw something earlier Tippia put up about a 50k something else earlier and said it could still die to them

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes