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The coming war on used games sales!
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Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-04-03 17:00:42 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Telling the truth is not hatred ...

Yes, it is. When you hate someone one and express it does it become the truth.


Like I said I don't hate you, or do you have the power to reach across the internet and sense what people think?
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-04-03 17:01:47 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Telling the truth is not hatred ...

Yes, it is. When you hate someone one and express it does it become the truth.


still waiting for you to come up with a reasonable response to my post Roll
Whitehound
#63 - 2012-04-03 17:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Sobach wrote:
still waiting for you to come up with a reasonable response to my post Roll

It is only an opinion you have. It is nothing to talk about. Sorry. Do you want to try again?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#64 - 2012-04-03 17:06:40 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Like I said I don't hate you, or do you have the power to reach across the internet and sense what people think?

It is called reading.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-04-03 17:23:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobach
Whitehound wrote:
Sobach wrote:
still waiting for you to come up with a reasonable response to my post Roll

It is only an opinion you have. It is nothing to talk about. Sorry. Do you want to try again?


ah, gotcha, so all you wanted to do was to spout off your own piece and attack other's viewpoints, and then completely ignore them when they comes up with their own counterpoints, ok.

You know what, why don't you just keep at it, the thread is derailed enough as it is, and it's obvious you just want to troll instead of having any actual intelligent debate. I'll just step away, and think of your tears whenever I boot up steam :)
Whitehound
#66 - 2012-04-03 17:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Sobach wrote:
ah, gotcha, so all you wanted to do was to spout off your own piece and attack other's viewpoints, and then completely ignore them when they comes up with their own counterpoints, ok.

I take this as a question... My response was in order for you not to make the same mistakes again and to adopt everything new just blindly. You are not getting anything for free in this world, but you will find yourself trading it in for something of value to you and for what seemed to be free.

Quote:
You know what, why don't you just keep at it, the thread is derailed enough as it is, and it's obvious you just want to troll instead of having any actual intelligent debate. I'll just step away, and think of your tears whenever I boot up steam :)

Yes, step away. You seem to be smart enough to know how to avoid tears. Lol

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#67 - 2012-04-03 23:03:33 UTC
Hey I would love for us all to game using cloud but I also know as consumer we are getting more and more screwed over. Not sure how it is for you guys but today music, movies and books are cheaper than ever before. Games however is not, but the opposite, we pay more today and get less value with a ton of restrictions in place treating us as filth. It is annoying enough to have to watch FBI warnings and ads about how pirating=stealing when you BOUGHT the ******* movie, but with games we get limited installs and at least 2 DRM sometimes 3 and we even get told that we don't own it and they are nice for letting us pay to rent at full price basically.

STEAM I use but it is also a bunch of bullshit, games over the years even to this day are being released broken and Valve customer support will tell you to like it. At least in the EU you can demand a refund and they will give it to you, problem is afterwards they ban you for life from their services even if you buy a new game because it has STEAM on it.

Gabe seems nice and they have gone on record saying that if they ever go under all games DRM will be removed, but obviously that is bullshit since each company behind a game has a right to deny them and breaking that would possibly land them in jail even if their business is gone.

In other news, anyone tried out gameOn? personal experience with it? Seems pretty cool from what I have seen, imagine a hardware user limit removed and all you depend on is screen, your internet connection and whatever controller input you prefer/need. I can't imagine how the market could change, for the better obviously, if all games were on one platform and that could be accessed on any device.
Whitehound
#68 - 2012-04-04 00:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
2bhammered wrote:
Hey I would love for us all to game using cloud but I also know as consumer we are getting more and more screwed over. Not sure how it is for you guys but today music, movies and books are cheaper than ever before. Games however is not, but the opposite, we pay more today and get less value with a ton of restrictions in place treating us as filth. It is annoying enough to have to watch FBI warnings and ads about how pirating=stealing when you BOUGHT the ******* movie, but with games we get limited installs and at least 2 DRM sometimes 3 and we even get told that we don't own it and they are nice for letting us pay to rent at full price basically. ...

Only today did I read an interesting story... Scientists conducted an experiment with rats. They lowered a bit of cheese on a string into a cage with several rats. The rats then automatically jumped at the cheese before it reached the ground. The scientists then changed the rats' behaviour by splashing cold water at them in order to make them wait for the cheese to reach the ground. After a while did the rats stop jumping and waited for the cheese. They then exchanged one of trained rats with an untrained one. The result was that now the new rat did not jump at the cheese either, but it adopted the behaviour of the other rats. The scientists kept exchanging rat after rat until none of the trained rats were left. However, no rat started jumping at the cheese any longer. It had become sort of a rule for the rats not to jump. Weird, right?

We have been trained to accept and agree tons of nonsense with games and other software. Imagine buying milk and bread and you had to sign an agreement each time you do not to hold the producers responsible for their product, not to misuse the product other than its intended purpose and so on. You would think this is impossible, but it is not. All it needs is cold water ...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-04-04 05:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Whitehound wrote:
Only today did I read an interesting story... Scientists conducted an experiment with rats. They lowered a bit of cheese on a string into a cage with several rats. The rats then automatically jumped at the cheese before it reached the ground. The scientists then changed the rats' behaviour by splashing cold water at them in order to make them wait for the cheese to reach the ground. After a while did the rats stop jumping and waited for the cheese. They then exchanged one of trained rats with an untrained one. The result was that now the new rat did not jump at the cheese either, but it adopted the behaviour of the other rats. The scientists kept exchanging rat after rat until none of the trained rats were left. However, no rat started jumping at the cheese any longer. It had become sort of a rule for the rats not to jump. Weird, right?.


Stop trying to be clever, you are not. If you where really clever you would understand that its called operant conditioning. (Or possibly respondent conditioning, your description is crap)
Endeavour Starfleet
#70 - 2012-04-04 05:27:54 UTC
When I see people selling every game in their collection to get ONE new game at places like gamestop it makes me glad this "war on used games" is coming.

Try to play an older game online on Xbox. You will hardly find anyone else on said game. Why? Because many have long gave up a good game for a few dollars which they will turn around and sell for massive profit with little worry of the gravy train stopping.

They in turn crush mom and pop game stores.
Whitehound
#71 - 2012-04-04 06:41:43 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Stop trying to be clever, you are not. If you where really clever you would understand that its called operant conditioning. (Or possibly respondent conditioning, your description is crap)

So much hate Lol

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#72 - 2012-04-05 14:41:35 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Stop trying to be clever, you are not. If you where really clever you would understand that its called operant conditioning. (Or possibly respondent conditioning, your description is crap)

So much hate Lol



Tyran likes to start fights over anything, don't mind him, he trolls every single forum there is.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-04-05 16:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
2bhammered wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Stop trying to be clever, you are not. If you where really clever you would understand that its called operant conditioning. (Or possibly respondent conditioning, your description is crap)

So much hate Lol



Tyran likes to start fights over anything, don't mind him, he trolls every single forum there is.


Thats unfair, I only troll stupid people or those that post stupid opinions. I argued with you in the Bioware threads because you where doing the 4chan zombie biodrone chant. But in this thread where you made a good point I supported it didnt I? I don't hold grudges over forum arguments either, that would be daft.

I enjoy constructive discussion but I cant help it when people are stupid, its just to funny.
Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
#74 - 2012-04-05 16:23:31 UTC
Lord is it that serious?

I guess I should talk about how much gasoline and cigarettes cost when I was a teenager? **** in life changes and you can not do things like you always done anymore. I have nostalgia for payphones, doesn't mean I get angry because they don't exist anymore. Or flipping channels really fast with an old analog cable box, doesn't mean I don't use the digital menus on my TV.

Let's just face it, steam and other networks where you can download games is cheaper and more convenient than buying discs. Get over it, steam is here to stay.

UMADBRO?
Whitehound
#75 - 2012-04-05 17:00:00 UTC
Jon Engel wrote:
Lord is it that serious?

I guess I should talk about how much gasoline and cigarettes cost when I was a teenager? **** in life changes and you can not do things like you always done anymore. I have nostalgia for payphones, doesn't mean I get angry because they don't exist anymore. Or flipping channels really fast with an old analog cable box, doesn't mean I don't use the digital menus on my TV.

Let's just face it, steam and other networks where you can download games is cheaper and more convenient than buying discs. Get over it, steam is here to stay.

UMADBRO?

So you have no values, you accept anything as long as it shines and blinks, and it makes you happy and it will keep making you happy. This is all good, but this does not make a good opinion. You first need to have an opinion to express it just as you need to have values to care for them. Maybe you have taste and style and we can talk about that, but this here is not a discussion for you.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-04-05 17:47:56 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jon Engel wrote:
Lord is it that serious?

I guess I should talk about how much gasoline and cigarettes cost when I was a teenager? **** in life changes and you can not do things like you always done anymore. I have nostalgia for payphones, doesn't mean I get angry because they don't exist anymore. Or flipping channels really fast with an old analog cable box, doesn't mean I don't use the digital menus on my TV.

Let's just face it, steam and other networks where you can download games is cheaper and more convenient than buying discs. Get over it, steam is here to stay.

UMADBRO?

So you have no values, you accept anything as long as it shines and blinks, and it makes you happy and it will keep making you happy. This is all good, but this does not make a good opinion. You first need to have an opinion to express it just as you need to have values to care for them. Maybe you have taste and style and we can talk about that, but this here is not a discussion for you.


He has values, they are just different to yours. You accuse him of chasing shiny baubles yet you are the one that would choose a useless box instead of customised content, on demand and at a reasonable price.

I mocked you about being a grandpa and that was a little unfair but I do understand some people like going and browsing stores. Personally I hate it, most stores will rob you blind, they take half of someone's game collection in trade for a single new game. The the used games you traded will be placed on sale for 75% of the retail price of a new copy. Many stores only stock the latest best sellers and neglect PC games. Its also Russian roulette with the staff, sometimes they are cool people but more often they are moody ******** that cannot be bothered and communicate in grunts.

Buying digital distribution is so much better, you just browse and choose and a few clicks later and a short wait (if you have good internet) of 15 mins or so to download the game.

Clients like Origin and Steam are also tied to accounts, you can install a client on any machine and play. Retail boxes often have DRM that limit how many times you can install a game or limit to a single PC. Digital distribution allows you to delete and install content whenever you want. No worrying that you only have one install left from you retail box and you need to reinstall your OS.

Boxes give you nothing but a piece of plastic, digital distribution offers convenience. You lose no consumer rights either, publishers can still lock you out of a retail box with DRM the same as digital distribution.

No trolling now, please try and post the advantages of retail box, if you can.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-04-06 21:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
Whitehound wrote:
and other software. Imagine buying milk and bread and you had to sign an agreement each time you do not to hold the producers responsible for their product, not to misuse the product other than its intended purpose and so on. You would think this is impossible, but it is not. All it needs is cold water ...


I always viewed Steam as a give-and-take relationship. You have to accept their DRM, and they give you automatic updates, as many installs on as many machines as you want (barring 3rd party DRM which I'll never buy), local backups, totally transparent DRM (no disc checks, can play offline if the internet isn't available, etc), convenient one-stop shopping and fast downloads, and centralized community tools.

The one thing that Valve figured out that everyone else has missed so far is that if you want to your DRM to actually work then it has to add value for the customer. DRM that is purely restrictive has never worked and never will.

Most of the complaints I see about Steam tend to revolve around the service suddenly terminating (highly unlikely, but even so we'd all just crack our games and continue on about our business), issues about ownership (as I said a few pages ago, the only way to own non-open source software you didn't write is to steal it, and it's always been that way), or some emotional connection to physical goods (which I can't help you with).

KB Link
Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
#78 - 2012-04-07 04:43:22 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Jon Engel wrote:
Lord is it that serious?

I guess I should talk about how much gasoline and cigarettes cost when I was a teenager? **** in life changes and you can not do things like you always done anymore. I have nostalgia for payphones, doesn't mean I get angry because they don't exist anymore. Or flipping channels really fast with an old analog cable box, doesn't mean I don't use the digital menus on my TV.

Let's just face it, steam and other networks where you can download games is cheaper and more convenient than buying discs. Get over it, steam is here to stay.

UMADBRO?

So you have no values, you accept anything as long as it shines and blinks, and it makes you happy and it will keep making you happy. This is all good, but this does not make a good opinion. You first need to have an opinion to express it just as you need to have values to care for them. Maybe you have taste and style and we can talk about that, but this here is not a discussion for you.


Since when did a form of media (video games) require some monolithic dogma about how things ought to be? My values are very simple friend. Offer me a service I may or may not be interested in and keep the price reasonable and I consider it a good thing for myself or (if not myself) someone else to patronage.

That is what steam is. Now, I buy 360 games like a crack addict at gamestop. I always hit the 5-10 dollar racks at Gamestop on payday and get a couple. Why? because of the values I listed in above paragraph...

Steam is not something that shines and blinks. It offers me goods and services at a reasonable price with fairly decent customer service. So I patron steam as a customer in exchange for money. Like I want to pay 30 dollars for a 5 year old PC game when I get it for 4.99 on steam and not have to burn gas going to best buy or digging around 15 stores at the mall and hitting the department stores looking for it.

You just want to hate steam for the sake of hating it. Embrace it man, you'll like it. I promise.
Whitehound
#79 - 2012-04-07 20:42:47 UTC
Jon Engel wrote:
My values are very simple friend. ...

You just want to hate steam for the sake of hating it. ...

Yes, I know about your values and, no, I do not hate them for the sake of it. I do not share their idea of a "good" sale, I reject it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#80 - 2012-04-07 21:05:59 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
...
Most of the complaints I see about Steam tend to revolve around the service suddenly terminating (highly unlikely, but even so we'd all just crack our games and continue on about our business), issues about ownership (as I said a few pages ago, the only way to own non-open source software you didn't write is to steal it, and it's always been that way), or some emotional connection to physical goods (which I can't help you with).

Lol If it was this simple and it was a mere emotional connection then we could just make prostitution a respectable business and declare marriage as illegal. The later often ends in court anyway and you lose your money either way!

Seriously, it still is about the values and there is no emotional connection here. We have established rules in business and with games and software sales do these rules get bend and broken. You own nothing, you need to agree with their politic before you can use the software and you need to fear the loss of your purchase. All you get is to pay for buggy games. There is a complete loss in values taking place and the kids accept it happily, because they do not know what this is.

An old saying says, "do not pay the ferryman before you get to the other side." If one does not understand its meaning and what it is trying to teach you then I suppose it needs Steam so that people can make the necessary experience.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.