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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Lanasak
Doomheim
#1301 - 2012-04-02 16:38:12 UTC
Kara Roideater wrote:
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.


He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1302 - 2012-04-02 16:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Lanasak wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
I'm sorry, did you miss the part where he DID single out a specific player to the point of spelling his name for the benefit of drunken associates?


in the interview? or at fanfest?

we're talking about two separate events here bro keep up


They are only two separate events as a matter of when they occurred. Mitanni confessed his intent in the January video. Mitanni followed through by doing exactly that, going to fanfest, soliciting others to push a player to the point of suicide. Both videos, "drinks with bolton" and the fanfest alliance panel a irrevocably linked. One forecasts the action. The other is the action.

It's akin to someone calling you and threatening violence against you with laughter heard in the background months in advance giving you a specific date and time they're going to do it. Then, someone shows up and beats you exactly at the time and date they said they would. You would have us believe, in that instance that you would be completely befuddled and your police report would not reflect the phone call? *face palm*

Don't ban me, bro!
Kara Roideater
#1303 - 2012-04-02 16:46:49 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.


He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.


He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'.

I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive.
Lanasak
Doomheim
#1304 - 2012-04-02 16:47:53 UTC
so, in that interview, he specifically said that he was going to tell fanfest attendees to target a hisec ice miner who vaguely expressed suicidal ideations?
Lanasak
Doomheim
#1305 - 2012-04-02 16:48:19 UTC
Kara Roideater wrote:
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.


He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.


He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'.

I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive.


none of this makes it "premeditated"
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1306 - 2012-04-02 16:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.


He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.


He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'.

I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive.


none of this makes it "premeditated"


All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.

Don't ban me, bro!
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1307 - 2012-04-02 16:52:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Mr Kidd wrote:

Besides that he intended to ridicle the antics of miners and titan pilots.
And the person that he specifically named was a miner. Got me again. Absolutely no correlation what-so-ever. The logic is strong in you!


He could have said he planned to make fun of people who drink tea, and a month later describes a ridiculous mail he recieved from a miner who happens to enjoy tea.

He made slides & joked about examples of ridiculous mails he recieves from several demographics of eve, not a personal attack singleing out one specific person.

And at no time did he state in the beers with bolton vid that he planned to single out any specific person(s) by name.
Nor that wished to target "vulnerable individules".
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1308 - 2012-04-02 16:56:39 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

Besides that he intended to ridicle the antics of miners and titan pilots.
And the person that he specifically named was a miner. Got me again. Absolutely no correlation what-so-ever. The logic is strong in you!


He could have said he planned to make fun of people who drink tea, and a month later describes a ridiculous mail he recieved from a miner who happens to enjoy tea.

He made slides & joked about examples of ridiculous mails he recieves from several demographics of eve, not a personal attack singleing out one specific person.

And at no time did he state in the beers with bolton vid that he planned to single out any specific person(s) by name.




but he did made that crazy move and now there are 10058 people crying ,bc he ****** up

R.S.I2014
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1309 - 2012-04-02 17:01:54 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


but he did made that crazy move and now there are 10058 people crying ,bc he ****** up


I agree he may have made a stupid comment, but its a far cry from premeditated assisted suicide or murder.
Kara Roideater
#1310 - 2012-04-02 17:03:05 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
Lanasak wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.


He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.


He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'.

I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive.


none of this makes it "premeditated"


I don't believe I have said it does. However, the sense of premeditated with which you are working is very narrow and only addresses one aspect of what was said but with regard to that aspect I think you are probably right. I think you would have a much harder time arguing that there was no premeditation with respect to going to Fanfest and deliberately offending people by encouraging them to kill themselves. What we ended up seeing was the unfortunate intersection of that plan and an extemporaneous remark. But those kinds of results are the almost inevitable consequences of the kind of thing that we see in the earlier video.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1311 - 2012-04-02 17:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Mr Kidd wrote:

Lanasak wrote:

none of this makes it "premeditated"


All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.


Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument.
Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1312 - 2012-04-02 17:13:01 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

Lanasak wrote:

none of this makes it "premeditated"


All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.


Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument.
Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?




a lot of Goons have QWERTY in mirror writing al over their forehead lately ,how come?

R.S.I2014
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1313 - 2012-04-02 17:16:44 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


a lot of Goons have QWERTY in mirror writing al over their forehead lately ,how come?


Im laughing too hard at the thought right now to come up with a sly answer.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1314 - 2012-04-02 17:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Azran Zala wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

Lanasak wrote:

none of this makes it "premeditated"


All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.


Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument.
Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?


Yes, it's actually a sentence, but requires a modicum of grammatical aptitude to recognize it as such. Is it the big words or the comma's that are causing your confusion?

I only resort to baseless accusations after significant attempts to describe the situation irrefutably and have people refute it. When someone says they're going to do something giving a date, time and place they're going to do it, then shows up at the exact location, date and time they said they would and do exactly what they said they'd do....well, yeah, can't really see how you and others can insist that the two incidents are not related. Should I conclude that your mental faculties are deficient and start using pictures?

Doesn't really matter. You're either Mitanni or troll. And since we know Mitanni is a troll, I did take a leap of logic and assume you were Mitanni. Now, how about using a worn out cliche' in response?

Don't ban me, bro!
Lanasak
Doomheim
#1315 - 2012-04-02 17:22:14 UTC
sorry, but when you're dragging the lead game designer into this you're going too far

drop the hatchet already
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1316 - 2012-04-02 17:25:41 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
sorry, but when you're dragging the lead game designer into this you're going too far

drop the hatchet already


I didn't drag the lead designer into anything. It sounds as if he participated in the "drinks with bolton" interview of his on volition.

Don't ban me, bro!
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1317 - 2012-04-02 17:27:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
Mr Kidd wrote:

When someone says they're going to do something giving a date, time and place they're going to do it, then shows up at the exact location, date and time they said they would and do exactly what they said they'd do....well, yeah, can't really see how you and others can insist that the two incidents are not related. Should I conclude that your mental faculties are deficient and start using pictures?


He said he wants to tell miners, titan pilots, whiners, etc to go kill themselves.
He did no such thing.
Nor was his presentation at the alliance panel inappropriate.

The only discussion about what he may have done wrong, was if during the Q&A session he insisted that others harrass a specific ingame character in response to a CCP employee's comment about that char's last known location.

And one does not have to be bias (goons/mittani) or a troll to wade through a load of speculation and superfluous ranting to take the opertunity to point out the weakness in others arguments, and present an opposite opinion.

The only reason I continue to appear as defending Mittani, is your failure to produce a convincing argument.
Lanasak
Doomheim
#1318 - 2012-04-02 17:27:45 UTC
no, whoever decided to dig up that video got him involved

you're going too far, just drop the hatchet and walk away
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1319 - 2012-04-02 17:37:20 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
no, whoever decided to dig up that video got him involved

you're going too far, just drop the hatchet and walk away


No, I'm pretty sure that when someone plans to break a law or EULA or TOS or any other rule set for which there are consequences, anyone that passively stands by and allows it to happen might have some liability. Because someone found evidence to that fact doesn't make them a party guilty of anything or by proxy involved Soundwave. He involved himself and as soon as suicide was mentioned he should have excused himself from the conversation and informed his superiors. That's otherwise know as CYA - covering your own ass.

Had he done so, perhaps they actually would have reviewed Mitanni's presentation and outlined certain things he was to avoid at all costs and this situation never would have happened.

Stop transferring your resentment from those who made this fiasco happen or who allowed it to happen to those who are pointing out how it happened.

Don't ban me, bro!
Lanasak
Doomheim
#1320 - 2012-04-02 17:43:29 UTC
CCP has already made their decision on this matter with the 30 day ban and removal from the CSM. I realize that you are a paragon of morality but when you're putting people's livelihoods on the line you're going too far, especially over some non-event that turned into an unnecessary media circus.