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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

First post First post
Author
Psichotic
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1401 - 2012-04-12 05:14:17 UTC
In regards to the incident of prevailing discussion, CCP absolutely made the right decision. I applaud their actions. It is both wrong and illegal to incite someone to kill themselves. In fact, I would go further to say that they should make themselves aware of the extent of the problem. I am not an attorney and all statements I make herein are to be regarded as my personal opinion, but if I were their attorney I would advise them to include the specific language "cyberbullying" and "encouraging self-harm or harm to others" in their TOS. They should also, IMO, include language to the effect that violation of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act is also a violation of the TOS. This would help cover them should someone who is mentally ill harm themselves, although I would imagine proactive measures would be the best assurance of limitation of liability.

When people are online they tend to forget they live under the rule of law. As it pertains to the encouragement of suicide, United States case law has generally treated it as mala in se. In Burnett v. People (Ill.) 68 N. E. 505, 66 L. R. A. 304, 98 Am. St. Rep. 206 – a case of a suicide pact – the court held that the accomplice was in fact a principal in the offense, and that it was in and of itself, a natural crime to encourage another to commit the act of suicide. According to the legal precedent I was able to dig up in ~5min if you are an adult and incite someone to kill themselves you could be adjudicated guilty of murder.

If you are a minor such an incident might be covered under cyberbullying legislation, if you're lucky and don't get charged as an adult. In the U.S. cyberbullying is an illegal activity. All 50 states have cyberbullying laws. In most states it is a misdemeanor. A couple states, like Missouri, have upgraded it to a felony.

The fact is, if you take things too far and someone does hurt themselves, there will probably be media attention. In that case you will be judged first in the court of public opinion, and then in a court of law. You will find that while the people you have surrounded yourself with may not see anything wrong with your behavior the society you live in will not tolerate cyberbullying and certainly not incitement to commit suicide. These laws are the will of not 10,000 gamers, but hundreds of millions of citizens. Whether it is covered as part of the agreement you have made with the game owners is irrelevant.

Like it or not, agree with it or don't, but follow it or risk it. The consequences for the intentional or accidental serious injury or death of a person will be followed by actions against you by law enforcement. If your own conscious is not enough to prevent you from being a shmuck or you don't understand why it is considered wrong to be a shmuck, you would do yourself a favor by remembering that everything you do online is recorded.

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1402 - 2012-04-12 18:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Psichotic wrote:
In regards to the incident of prevailing discussion, CCP absolutely made the right decision. I applaud their actions. It is both wrong and illegal to incite someone to kill themselves. In fact, I would go further to say that they should make themselves aware of the extent of the problem. I am not an attorney and all statements I make herein are to be regarded as my personal opinion, but if I were their attorney I would advise them to include the specific language "cyberbullying" and "encouraging self-harm or harm to others" in their TOS. They should also, IMO, include language to the effect that violation of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act is also a violation of the TOS. This would help cover them should someone who is mentally ill harm themselves, although I would imagine proactive measures would be the best assurance of limitation of liability.

When people are online they tend to forget they live under the rule of law. As it pertains to the encouragement of suicide, United States case law has generally treated it as mala in se. In Burnett v. People (Ill.) 68 N. E. 505, 66 L. R. A. 304, 98 Am. St. Rep. 206 – a case of a suicide pact – the court held that the accomplice was in fact a principal in the offense, and that it was in and of itself, a natural crime to encourage another to commit the act of suicide. According to the legal precedent I was able to dig up in ~5min if you are an adult and incite someone to kill themselves you could be adjudicated guilty of murder.

If you are a minor such an incident might be covered under cyberbullying legislation, if you're lucky and don't get charged as an adult. In the U.S. cyberbullying is an illegal activity. All 50 states have cyberbullying laws. In most states it is a misdemeanor. A couple states, like Missouri, have upgraded it to a felony.

The fact is, if you take things too far and someone does hurt themselves, there will probably be media attention. In that case you will be judged first in the court of public opinion, and then in a court of law. You will find that while the people you have surrounded yourself with may not see anything wrong with your behavior the society you live in will not tolerate cyberbullying and certainly not incitement to commit suicide. These laws are the will of not 10,000 gamers, but hundreds of millions of citizens. Whether it is covered as part of the agreement you have made with the game owners is irrelevant.

Like it or not, agree with it or don't, but follow it or risk it. The consequences for the intentional or accidental serious injury or death of a person will be followed by actions against you by law enforcement. If your own conscious is not enough to prevent you from being a shmuck or you don't understand why it is considered wrong to be a shmuck, you would do yourself a favor by remembering that everything you do online is recorded.


Heavy ****. This really underscores CCP's culpability and liability for broadcasting it live via stream with no delay, for profit no less, doesn't it?

Seriously heavy ****. I had no idea CCP could get into so much trouble for broadcasting that **** live (and therefore tacitly assuming responsibility for their for-profit "content," such as it was).

Seriously.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Adoniah Carrefour
the Whatley Brothers
#1403 - 2012-04-12 21:53:24 UTC
Its not an invalidation of a election to remove someone for violating terms of agreement anyways. CCP provided drinks cuz they are cool, the Mittani said stupid crap because he can't hold his liquor. During a live broadcast. During a pivotal year in the development of the company. The inherent cruelty of Eve remains intact .. the **** got a time out for pete's sake and gave up the chair his own self.

Learn how to hold your booze.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1404 - 2012-04-15 17:04:55 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Heavy ****. This really underscores CCP's culpability and liability for broadcasting it live via stream with no delay, for profit no less, doesn't it?

Seriously heavy ****. I had no idea CCP could get into so much trouble for broadcasting that **** live (and therefore tacitly assuming responsibility for their for-profit "content," such as it was).

Seriously.

Oh yeah, they were selling those HD streams, weren't they?

Didn't get one, but I heard they were buggy or something like that?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Demosthenes O'Connor
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1405 - 2012-04-16 05:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Demosthenes O'Connor
EDIT: Never mind...

~48387~

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#1406 - 2012-04-22 00:10:50 UTC
I am utterly astounded by the Goon sense of entitlement in this thread.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Mather Odile
The spice MUST flow
#1407 - 2012-04-26 09:17:06 UTC
As far as I see the matter at hand, CCP and Mittani reacted both in a sensible way, assuming, that the chain of events was as it was later stated. What was being said by the Mittani is an clearly unaccepteble public call to force someone into harming himself in reallife. Yes, it was a bad idea to give sensible informations about his real identity in the ingame bio. And yes, it might help future matters to clarify the TOS for such events as the fanfest. The fact that he was drunk (upon which he shouldn't have been allowed to speak officially as a CSM member), was taken into account by not banning him from future CSMs. Thus a wellrounded decission was taken by both sides.
Those crying out about this, state that they perceive the RL wellbeing of other people of no importance to them. While EVE is perceived as an harsh universe, contrasting most other mmos out there, which I find to be refreshing, the line has to be drawn when it comes to potential RL consequences. Given the publicness of the incident and the prominence of the actor, CCP had no choice but to step in. Wether or not the votes he received are worthless now, lies in the hands of the other CSM members.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1408 - 2012-04-26 22:40:25 UTC
considering that far less will get your account perma-banned from the game, the fact that Mittens is allowed back in is something that is interesting.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1409 - 2012-04-27 03:37:02 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
considering that far less will get your account perma-banned from the game, the fact that Mittens is allowed back in is something that is interesting.
Goon subscriptions.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1410 - 2012-04-27 05:02:31 UTC
EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE

1.You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.

2.You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)

4.You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.

16. You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriber’s personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.

EULA
6.5 You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-party’s intellectual property rights.

1 month ban?
seems legit

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

xCabalx
The Wallstreet Bulls Corporation
#1411 - 2012-05-13 04:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: xCabalx
A 30-day ban is nothing compared to what he pulled off against that guy. Good lord was this weak...
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1412 - 2012-06-02 10:51:31 UTC
He should be happy he was not permaban like alot are calling for.

If he had done that in the state he be in handcuff. hes voters are S.O.L CSM chair's are voted on and filled by players but are only there at the will of ccp rember that in the end ccp hold all the card when it comes to csm chair and if they wanted to deside to disban csm and we wont have any csm. so stop your crying move on.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Tiger Would
Doomheim
#1413 - 2012-06-05 20:17:29 UTC
heh

Took a break for a bit, just after the election...

Come back, and find mittens has flushed over 10k votes down the toilet, or actually gs as a whole flushed the votes.

Good stuff, maybe next time these people will vote for a more mature candidate.


Anyone want to put the D back into Democracy already?
(You know who to vote for next year)

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#1414 - 2012-06-09 19:27:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
kugu didnt get the option of a 30 day ban, an all he did was spill a name amirite?

ccp didnt throw the votes away, mittens did.

next time split your votes ffs, do u never watch survivor? you could have easy 4-5 seats on the csm if you had a brain between the lot of you

bottom 5 winner totals

1282
1533
1561
2284
2289
=8949

We are our own worst enemy.

Shefus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1415 - 2012-06-20 19:40:19 UTC
KONY 2012