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The coming war on used games sales!

Author
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#1 - 2012-03-30 18:22:18 UTC
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/29/the-coming-war-on-used-games/

A nice article on the subject. It seems more likely that all next gen consoles will push to kill used game sales. PC has this problem already big time as does other platforms, Microsoft are going to go nuts with WIndows 8 and try yet again to sell us their **** that they could not do with Windows Vista (they also ran into legal problems that time.)

I find this amusing and crazy at the same time, even starting to feel that developers and publishers are being self entitled pricks much like Hollywood and the Music industry is.

I got sick of hearing their excuses of crippling my games due to "piracy" ages ago and now they are going to target legal right of the consumer that we have when it comes to anything else. I always laugh when reading EULA's knowing they are not a signed contract where I live and by law I can crack and copy even a console game under fair use.

So, no used sales anymore? I figured it would happen sooner or later but the model they will push I am sure will be option 2 as detailed in that article.

In any case, does anyone actually want to buy a next gen console in 1 to 2 years from now sporting hardware worse than what PC's have today for another 7 year generation of rehashed games with no better graphics than Crysis 1 on PC released in 2007???

When will they learn. I have a hard time believing any gaming designated console could work in a year from now.

So what are your thoughts? Looking forward to more DRM? Being unable to take a game over to a friend and play? Lend, rent or even resell your copies? Are we evil for expecting to own a product we purchase and is Gamestop killing the industry?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#2 - 2012-03-30 18:50:47 UTC
Meh. I've never bothered to sell games and I've never trusted used games. I like my library. Best box on the shelf: X-COM: UFO Defense. Original floppies and all.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#3 - 2012-03-30 18:52:58 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Meh. I've never bothered to sell games and I've never trusted used games. I like my library. Best box on the shelf: X-COM: UFO Defense. Original floppies and all.



"I've never trusted used games"

This you will have to clarify Big smile
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#4 - 2012-03-30 18:59:43 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
"I've never trusted used games"

This you will have to clarify Big smile

Stolen/fake license keys, outright forgeries, missing documentation, bad discs that I can't test til I get home...it's no fun buying something only to find out you didn't really buy it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#5 - 2012-03-30 19:09:18 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
"I've never trusted used games"

This you will have to clarify Big smile

Stolen/fake license keys, outright forgeries, missing documentation, bad discs that I can't test til I get home...it's no fun buying something only to find out you didn't really buy it.



Well that is not the case with gamestop for instance, the law apply to your used copy purchased by stores like that just as if you would purchase a new copy. I can see it happening on places like ebay or craigslist but on ebay you got reputation,your credit card company can roll back the payment just as paypal can you are also covered by insurance. But I see what you mean when it comes to other places.

I do wonder, do you have similar difficulties buying other things used? From houses, cars, movies to other consumer products or do you tend to always buy new? Do you sell used stuff yourself at least?

Anyway, I can see not everyone being bothered by this. I know I wont be buying consoles anyway, but I do find it rather alarming or at least really weird that the Games industry is going to be and to a great extent already is the only exception to used sales and somehow people keep throwing out bullshit like "Somebody, please, think of the chi... developers" and wont do the same for anything else.

I suppose coupled with SOPA and things like that I do tend to wonder if the industry plan to sell more is by forcing us at gun point and not by making better products.
Selinate
#6 - 2012-03-30 19:45:11 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Meh. I've never bothered to sell games and I've never trusted used games. I like my library. Best box on the shelf: X-COM: UFO Defense. Original floppies and all.


I agree with this, and i sort of saw it coming since they removed backwards compatibility for the ps3 with the ps2 anyway.

Also, funny thing, an article just came out somewhere (I don't remember where) that 360's are being used now more for online media like movies and netflix and what not, aka entertainment centers than actual online gaming.
Reiisha
#7 - 2012-03-30 19:59:40 UTC
Selinate wrote:
[quote=FloppieTheBanjoClown]...since they removed backwards compatibility for the ps3 with the ps2 anyway.


This is one of the big reasons why the PS3 failed so hard in it's first few years. No proper library to fall back on.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-03-30 20:04:24 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
"I've never trusted used games"

This you will have to clarify Big smile

Stolen/fake license keys, outright forgeries, missing documentation, bad discs that I can't test til I get home...it's no fun buying something only to find out you didn't really buy it.


Funnily enough "bad discs" caused by copyprotection is the reason I stopped buying legitimate movies on DVD and I'm increasingly weary against the need to stay online to play single player games that I've bought. If I'm going to pay full retail price on a product, I want control of using that product entirely in my hands without having to rely on any outside entity. If that isn't possible, I'm not buying it.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-30 21:08:30 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
"I've never trusted used games"

This you will have to clarify Big smile

Stolen/fake license keys, outright forgeries, missing documentation, bad discs that I can't test til I get home...it's no fun buying something only to find out you didn't really buy it.

derp don't buy used PC games
this is about consoles, the majority of games are on console now, so before you rage no one cares about your minoritism.

gamestop lets you return a used game within 30 days and tell you if anything is missing, like books or w/e. there is no fear with used game sales

the outrage comes because game companies can no longer make crap games because you can wait a week and get it cheaper at a discount.
Liam Mirren
#10 - 2012-03-31 03:53:07 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Funnily enough "bad discs" caused by copyprotection is the reason I stopped buying legitimate movies on DVD and I'm increasingly weary against the need to stay online to play single player games that I've bought. If I'm going to pay full retail price on a product, I want control of using that product entirely in my hands without having to rely on any outside entity. If that isn't possible, I'm not buying it.


Downloading is easier, faster, cheaper, takes up less space, more environmentally friendly and the data can't go kaput forcing you to buy it again.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
#11 - 2012-03-31 07:12:33 UTC
This is ridiculousness.

Simple solution, keep your old systems when you buy the new ones. Allows you to keep playing your old library.

The article mentioned Steam, I love steam now. Cheaper, quicker and you don't need to install a bunch of crap on your computer. Just uninstall and they are saved for you later in your account. Love that.

Also, consoles are gonna die out someday. I would like to see a developer of some notable console titles to start releasing their games on PC along with the console release. See who sells more, chances are it's gonna be the PC market. Especially if it's direct downloaded form and not some lame ass Disc setup that takes 3 hours to install and swapping through 4 discs etc.

Whitehound
#12 - 2012-03-31 09:11:31 UTC
People only have so much money. If they cannot resell games then they will buy less games. I loved it when I could take a bunch of old game into a shop and get a new one for it. And when I liked a game and wanted to play its predecessor could I just buy a used copy and not have to spend the full price on an older title. Now I guess I have to dump the games in the bin or they already come without a box and through the Internet. I see no benefit in this change for me as a customer and lose a bit of gaming culture.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Justa Altlol
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-03-31 13:05:59 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
A nice article on the subject. It seems more likely that all next gen consoles will push to kill used game sales. PC has this problem already big time as does other platforms,

PC has a problem with used game sales? /facepalm
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-03-31 13:47:39 UTC
Justa Altlol wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
A nice article on the subject. It seems more likely that all next gen consoles will push to kill used game sales. PC has this problem already big time as does other platforms,

PC has a problem with used game sales? /facepalm


OP has a point, used games for PC have almost disappeared over the last five years, DRM, limited install limits and digital distribution have steadily killed them off. Used games for platforms like Android/iOS and "casual" games simply don't exist.

Used games on consoles have also become more problematic with things like online passes.
Selinate
#15 - 2012-03-31 13:59:36 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


OP has a point, used games for PC have almost disappeared over the last five years, DRM, limited install limits and digital distribution have steadily killed them off. Used games for platforms like Android/iOS and "casual" games simply don't exist.

Used games on consoles have also become more problematic with things like online passes.

Only games I've ever had to deal with online passes on the console is with games from EA.

I hate them.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#16 - 2012-03-31 15:57:51 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


OP has a point, used games for PC have almost disappeared over the last five years, DRM, limited install limits and digital distribution have steadily killed them off. Used games for platforms like Android/iOS and "casual" games simply don't exist.

Used games on consoles have also become more problematic with things like online passes.

Only games I've ever had to deal with online passes on the console is with games from EA.

I hate them.


THIS!!!! OMFG THIS! ...

I still don't know when, but about 3 or 4 years ago I decided to never buy ANYTHING EA related ... unless it was on STEAM and at around 9.99$ and they only carry old EA stuff. The games that used to be good.

I totally wish virtual poxes upon them from the core of my emo-geek soul.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#17 - 2012-03-31 20:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Justa Altlol wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
A nice article on the subject. It seems more likely that all next gen consoles will push to kill used game sales. PC has this problem already big time as does other platforms,

PC has a problem with used game sales? /facepalm


OP has a point, used games for PC have almost disappeared over the last five years, DRM, limited install limits and digital distribution have steadily killed them off. Used games for platforms like Android/iOS and "casual" games simply don't exist.

Used games on consoles have also become more problematic with things like online passes.



Exactly my point.

Justa must have misunderstood me.

Used sales are gone on the PC platform and one of the first things one noticed as a consumer many years ago was that stores would stop stocking PC games altogether. It stopped being profitable and if anything that with console market and PC MMORPGs and their payment model put a big dent into PC gaming. New salvation is Steam I suppose but that has issues as well and as awesome Valve is?! Origin is hell and we can only hope for the best when it comes to the future.

Without used games I doubt gamestops can survive, it is the majority of their profit. Also I can't help think how many sales will be lost when a normal person can't just walk into a store and pick up a video game for themselves or child. Not to mention that every single game you purchase will be just "licenses" and you will be stuck with them forever.

For those and many other reasons my instinct tells me it must all be some stupid rumor but I know better, the video-games industry is just as stupid if not more dumb than the music and movie industry. These CEO's, investors and companies are so stupid sometimes it makes you just want to drop your hobby.

Kinda like SOPA and similar bills and laws these businesses lobby for to help out their businesses and increase profits when anyone with half a brain can see that it would be the complete opposite.

I would not be surprised if all new consoles end up being worse than mini-disc, betamax or even HD-DVD. If they do fail wait for these execs to blame "pirates"Lol
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#18 - 2012-03-31 21:35:32 UTC
I think the true point is that publishers are upset that they don't get a piece of the pie in the used game market. While I think that idea is BS, I'm convinced that's their real motivation for it. They sell a game at a retail store, they get their cut. The owner trades it in and the game store resells it, only the game store gets the money, and the publishers want it. So, they'll kill the used game market instead.

The truth is it is no different than any other product. Do you see BMW or Toyota griping that local dealers are selling used cars? No, they came out with these "Certified Pre-Owned" programs and sell used cars themselves. Why can't the publishers do that? You want to sell a used game? Fine. Go to the company's website and use a link there to input your key for the game. That un-licenses the game to you; you get some credit towards their online store to use for other purchases and they give you a form to print and include in the game you sell. The new owner contacts the publisher, pays them a buck or three, and gets the new license allowing the game to work. Done. Gamestop can continue selling used games, the publisher gets a small cut, the consumer may or may not pay more overall (Gamestop may have to drop prices a little because of it) and things continue.

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.

Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-04-01 00:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
Whitehound wrote:
People only have so much money. If they cannot resell games then they will buy less games. I loved it when I could take a bunch of old game into a shop and get a new one for it. And when I liked a game and wanted to play its predecessor could I just buy a used copy and not have to spend the full price on an older title. Now I guess I have to dump the games in the bin or they already come without a box and through the Internet. I see no benefit in this change for me as a customer and lose a bit of gaming culture.


It's not about you. When you buy games the devs/publishers don't get a cut. The people pushing this would actually prefer you buy less games but they're new.

Given the huge success of Steam on the PC it's been obvious for years that consoles would try to move to a similar model.

As for the car analogy, a car is a physical product. A game exists purely as information, the media it comes on isn't relevant. The only way to 'own' software of any sort is to steal it and it's always been like that.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-01 03:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Selinate wrote:
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:


OP has a point, used games for PC have almost disappeared over the last five years, DRM, limited install limits and digital distribution have steadily killed them off. Used games for platforms like Android/iOS and "casual" games simply don't exist.

Used games on consoles have also become more problematic with things like online passes.

Only games I've ever had to deal with online passes on the console is with games from EA.

I hate them.


Every first party Sony Computer Entertainment published game with a multiplayer component have online passes too. This includes games like the Resistance series and Uncharted 3. Ubisoft either use them or plan to use them, there maybe others but I cannot remember off the top of my head because I do not do a great deal of console gaming.
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