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New Dev Blog: Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012: The Conclusion

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Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#841 - 2012-03-29 09:23:27 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
Mittens didn't get my vote and he wont in the future but I I disagree with the decision.

CCP previewed the slides so they were OK with the content that was shown. Obviously the presentation was going to be having a laugh and mocking what was up there. CCP also allowed for drinking to go on on the stage and allowed for questions to a drunk panel. I ask myself why they did this and the answer... because people were just getting drunk, being stupid and having a laugh.. nothing too evil or life threatening about that.

During the presentation the other CSM representatives and alliance members were laughing, so if Mittens is accountable then everyone up there on the stage should be accountable as well. No one stepped forward to protest and plead for players not to harass anyone as it was a life or death situation. The CCP representative on stage also said nothing and I understand why no one said anything because it was a joke(yes in poor taste).

This has been an example of the mob mentality at best and has really seemed like a witch hunt from the start. I suspect a large majority of protesters haven't even watched the alliance video, and the player in question wasn't made aware until the mob had caused the storm on the forums and contacting all the gaming press about this terrible incident where a player was driven to suicide.

This was a silly joke made by a drunk nerd in a wizard hat having a laugh with lots of other drunk nerds which has been blown out of all proportion and I am 100% sure that much worse gets said in game and on voice-comms each and every day.

Mittens has publicly and personally apologised, feels bad what he said and that he upset someone as well as give a large isk donation to the player in question, this IMO should have been sufficient.


So if I got drunk one day and punched you in the face, you'd be okay with it because I'm not responsible for my actions while drunk, right? Right??? Surely I shouldn't be punished for this. If you got drunk and received a DUI, would you blame the alcohol or yourself? I didn't do it, the alcohol did! Have you ever heard of drinking in moderation? In terms of maturity, it's how you can tell the adults from the children.
Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#842 - 2012-03-29 09:24:43 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Following the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012, an incident was broadcast live on air by a panelist during the Q&A which broke the EVE Online EULA/TOS. The panelist was a member of the CSM who has subsequently resigned from CSM6 and, as a result, will resign his seat on CSM7. GM Salmon, VP of Customer Relations, provides more detail in this blog.



Due to ccp not being able to moderate events or even pre-screened material.
Lisatrommi
Henchman Ltd
#843 - 2012-03-29 09:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lisatrommi
After all this time and all the crap Goons have pulled, the huge amounts of rage tears in this thread are utterly delicious.

Some great points have been made, specifically regarding his *VOLUNTARY* rejection of the CSM7 Chair. CCP didn't force that, he did it himself.

Also, 10,000 votes, out of ~60k votes. Big whoop. As was mentioned, that means ~49k other people *didn't* want him on CSM, much less as the Chairman.

Please, do continue the crying though. I'm enjoying it immensely, and I'm certainly not the only one.

Thank you CCP, for a job well done.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#844 - 2012-03-29 09:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Norian Lonark
Chicken Pizza wrote:


So if I got drunk one day and punched you in the face, you'd be okay with it because I'm not responsible for my actions while drunk, right? Right??? Surely I shouldn't be punished for this. If you got drunk and received a DUI, would you blame the alcohol or yourself? I didn't do it, the alcohol did! Have you ever heard of drinking in moderation? In terms of maturity, it's how you can tell the adults from the children.


Where anywhere did I say him being drunk excused his actions or that he wasn't responsible for them? And also he didn't physically assault anyone did he. If a drunken idiot wearing a wizard hat called me a name would I be bothered about it? no.

Start wide, expand further, and never look back
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#845 - 2012-03-29 09:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: John Maynard Keynes
Ivana Twinkle wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Following the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012, an incident was broadcast live on air by a panelist during the Q&A which broke the EVE Online EULA/TOS. The panelist was a member of the CSM who has subsequently resigned from CSM6 and, as a result, will resign his seat on CSM7. GM Salmon, VP of Customer Relations, provides more detail in this blog.



Due to ccp not being able to moderate events or even pre-screened material.


Its like all murderers being innocent due to police not being able to prevent those crimes.
hioshi IV
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#846 - 2012-03-29 09:33:08 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
1Of9 wrote:
Thank you ccp.

You did the right thing, altho the CSM rules state that he cannot run for CSM again.

Plz explain why you are allowing him to run again in the future.


to pinpoint my claim:

http://community.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf

on page 20 it says, and i quote:

Quote:


CSM representative conduct

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. there are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.




In light of this, ccp please explain why he will be able to run for CSM in the future.


This right here.

If he is allowed to campaign again for CSM, this whole shitstorm will be reactivated with a vengeance. There will be plenty of players making sure that happens. The press will be notified, players will rebel and basically CCP will have another load of bad PR heaped upon them again.

CCP needs to stand by their own rules no matter how many players threaten to rage quit. If they do quit, good riddance.




+1 here. I also want a explanation why CCP are not enforcing CSM regulation.
Eve Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#847 - 2012-03-29 09:37:19 UTC
hioshi IV wrote:

+1 here. I also want a explanation why CCP are not enforcing CSM regulation.


Because CCP are CCP, they can do whatever they want.
John Zorg
State War Academy
Caldari State
#848 - 2012-03-29 09:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: John Zorg
nice work CCP, so after all that he has done to help save your game, one bad action gets him banned from the game and removed from the CSM. EVE-Online used to be a open game where no one cared because it is just that, a game.

Sociaty has totally lost it. To be completely honest, if I guy wants to kill himself because of a game then he should! We don't need attention seekers in this world.

Hint for next time: Leave it and let it just blow over. Instead you have just pissed off everyone that supports you.

I am no longer represented by the CSM.

Thank you CCP for being so childish about your game.

Question to CCP: Does the EULA extend beyond the game and services that CCP provides, even to EVE Fan Fest?
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#849 - 2012-03-29 09:41:07 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
Where anywhere did I say him being drunk excused his actions or that he wasn't responsible for them? And also he didn't physically assault anyone did he. If a drunken idiot wearing a hat called me a name would I be bother about it? no.


Nothing gets by you, eh?

Your post basically stated that because alcohol was allowed, anything that was said or done was acceptable as long as they were drunk and it was a joke. Mind if I quote? Of course you don't.

Norian Lonark wrote:
CCP previewed the slides so they were OK with the content that was shown. Obviously the presentation was going to be having a laugh and mocking what was up there. CCP also allowed for drinking to go on on the stage and allowed for questions to a drunk panel. I ask myself why they did this and the answer... because people were just getting drunk, being stupid and having a laugh.. nothing too evil or life threatening about that.


First, the controversy in question is not with regards to the presentation. It is with regards to the comment he made AFTER the presentation. You know, the bit where he spelled out the player's character name and invited everyone to have a drunken ha-ha and tell him to go kill himself. But according to your quote right above this, it's alright to tell someone to kill themselves, but ONLY if you're drunk and think it's funny.

There's nothing evil or life-threatening about someone getting drunk and joyriding around town - until someone dies.
Smarty James
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#850 - 2012-03-29 09:44:42 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
Mittens didn't get my vote and he wont in the future but I disagree with the decision.

CCP previewed the slides so they were OK with the content that was shown. Obviously the presentation was going to be having a laugh and mocking what was up there. CCP also allowed for drinking to go on on the stage and allowed for questions to a drunk panel. I ask myself why they did this and the answer... because people were just getting drunk, being stupid and having a laugh.. nothing too evil or life threatening about that.

During the presentation the other CSM representatives and alliance members were laughing, so if Mittens is accountable then everyone up there on the stage should be accountable as well. No one stepped forward to protest and plead for players not to harass anyone as it was a life or death situation. The CCP representative on stage also said nothing and I understand why no one said anything because it was a joke(yes in poor taste).

This has been an example of the mob mentality at best and has really seemed like a witch hunt from the start. I suspect a large majority of protesters haven't even watched the alliance video, and the player in question wasn't made aware until the mob had caused the storm on the forums and contacting all the gaming press about this terrible incident where a player was driven to suicide.

This was a silly joke made by a drunk nerd in a wizard hat having a laugh with lots of other drunk nerds which has been blown out of all proportion and I am 100% sure that much worse gets said in game and on voice-comms each and every day.

Mittens has publicly and personally apologised, feels bad what he said and that he upset someone as well as give a large isk donation to the player in question, this IMO should have been sufficient.


Agree with Norian

Kai Jyokoroi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#851 - 2012-03-29 09:45:47 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
You morons say "10,058"


Thank you for your searing political insight and mathematical calculations, Eve Online poster "Chicken Pizza"
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#852 - 2012-03-29 09:47:32 UTC
Kai Pirinha wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
The funny thing is, CCP didnt force Mittens to resign and invalidate the votes.

He did that himself.

Well said, sir.


Amazing how such a crucial point can be missed by so many people.Straight


It's also amazing that he seems to have accepted that he misbehaved while his fellows and followers (and goon pets :D) don't...

If you are a true follower, keep following him and accept it!

Or in other terms: deal with it.
(That really can't be said enough!)

/edit: BTW: He can be really, really ******* lucky that nobody is actually pressing charges against him, because what he did was indeed illegal in Iceland and Europe.

And he resigned the Chair from what i heard he will be in CSM7, THOSE 10k votes won't be WASTED.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Kai Jyokoroi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#853 - 2012-03-29 09:48:28 UTC
Also everything that has happened here is not regrettable, it's god-damn hilarious and you're all a bunch of whiny thin-skinned crybabies with an entitlement complex

except for that fact Mittens is literally receiving death threats over this in case you're too stupid to have spies on our forums
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#854 - 2012-03-29 09:50:28 UTC
Kai Jyokoroi wrote:
Chicken Pizza wrote:
You morons say "10,058"


Thank you for your searing political insight and mathematical calculations, Eve Online poster "Chicken Pizza"




Wa-hey! That's much more useful, contextual content in a post than I could ever have expected from a Goonswarm character. I must really have a knack for bringing out the good qualities in people.

You're welcome.
Jallock
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#855 - 2012-03-29 09:53:09 UTC
Tvaishk Suzuki wrote:
Thank you CCP for your quick action personaly I fully suport this action. and hope we can move on to premote eve in a more mature way.

As for all of you waveing your number of votes around and bashing ccp for this please....

While I agree we could now do with a reopening of elections, all the crys of "WHAT ABOUT MY VOTE" are pathetic.

Infact going on about this is just makeing things worse, I've looked though just about every news site that has mentioned this incedent and the comments are almost all negative in terms of the eve comumity as a whole, because of your insesant wineing and being dicks about this.

He was in the wrong and got the punishment he was due, if you can't deal with it get out the fire.

This is eve HTFU!



Goon tears are best tears
Josef Djugashvilis
#856 - 2012-03-29 09:54:28 UTC
According to the Dev Blog, Mittens has...foreited his right to serve on CSM7

This is not a signature.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#857 - 2012-03-29 09:57:05 UTC
Chicken Pizza wrote:
Norian Lonark wrote:
Where anywhere did I say him being drunk excused his actions or that he wasn't responsible for them? And also he didn't physically assault anyone did he. If a drunken idiot wearing a hat called me a name would I be bother about it? no.


Nothing gets by you, eh?

Your post basically stated that because alcohol was allowed, anything that was said or done was acceptable as long as they were drunk and it was a joke. Mind if I quote? Of course you don't.

Norian Lonark wrote:
CCP previewed the slides so they were OK with the content that was shown. Obviously the presentation was going to be having a laugh and mocking what was up there. CCP also allowed for drinking to go on on the stage and allowed for questions to a drunk panel. I ask myself why they did this and the answer... because people were just getting drunk, being stupid and having a laugh.. nothing too evil or life threatening about that.


First, the controversy in question is not with regards to the presentation. It is with regards to the comment he made AFTER the presentation. You know, the bit where he spelled out the player's character name and invited everyone to have a drunken ha-ha and tell him to go kill himself. But according to your quote right above this, it's alright to tell someone to kill themselves, but ONLY if you're drunk and think it's funny.

There's nothing evil or life-threatening about someone getting drunk and joyriding around town - until someone dies.


No the point that I was making is that drunk people lose their inhibition, self control and judgement. The point is that maybe CCP should have took this into consideration if they were that that bothered about what was being broadcast and I am sure this unfortunate incident will change things in the future.

I at no point in the post said that everything was acceptable because they were drunk. And I think you are pushing it to try and say what happened is comparable to drink driving, but I guess everyone has a different opinion.





Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Sanche Tehkeli
Bionesis Technologies
#858 - 2012-03-29 10:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sanche Tehkeli
Chicken Pizza wrote:
You morons say "10,058" like it's a large number. Do you even realize how many of those votes were probably alts? Do you know how many votes Obama alone received in the US 2008 presidential election? 69,456,897 votes. 52.92% of all of the voters in the third most populated country in the world. Kinda puts things into perspective, huh?

If Obama went live and told everyone in the US to feel free to call/mail/message a specific person and tell them to kill themselves, do you really think he would still be in office for much longer?

Most of you won't un-sub. Of the ones who do, I'm sure many, if not most, will inevitably re-sub. If you don't, good riddance.

Why don't you try looking at it conversely? Out of 59,109 votes cast, Mittani only received 10,058. That means 49,051 votes were NOT for Mittani. 83% of the votes/voters did NOT want Mittani for CSM. So while you're all bitching about how all 10,058 of you wanted Mittani to be CSM, consider the fact that the other 49,051 of us don't give a **** about what you think.

Math rules.


Such fallacy is itching me. So, since you are the kind to argue with numbers, logic and math, at least do it right.

1. 1/7 of all cast votes were for the Mittani. It's a fact that cannot be denied. He came first of all candidates. As additional figure, this very candidate has more than 200% of cast votes than his first follower after him (2nd position is Two Step with 4,150 votes.)

2. 6/7 of all cast votes were for OTHER candidates, spread among them. You can never assert it is against a pick, always it is for pick. This is on the same ground as your own logic. To be able to tell "83% of the votes/voters did NOT want Mittani for CSM" (quoting you) you have to ask each individual voter of its intent. Again : 17% were for him, 83% were for (many) others. This is maths.

3. Parallel with RL is irrelevant. As always you should make parallels between things comparable in all aspects, or issue disclaimers and restrictions. This is argumentation. There are aspects in common between CSM elections and RL elections and things that are completely different. Voting system is different, result assessing is different... Etc.

4. If you don't agree, be constructive when you argue your point. You're posing and gave no useful information/argument.

EDIT:

If you want to counter someone running for an election, you could either do dirty tricks or compete. If you dislike having The Mittani as top result, make a campain of your own, join another candidate campaign.

TL;DR : compete to get someone else elected.
Chantal Vermeer
Doomheim
#859 - 2012-03-29 10:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Chantal Vermeer
Gratz to CCP for a quick and adequate decision on this. I did not expect it and I'm pleasantly surprised.


Sanche Tehkeli wrote:

3. Parallel with RL is irrelevant.

Apperently it is relevant Big smile Like every RL persone in an exposed position he should have better watched his actions. He chose not to do so. Now he has to cope with the aftermath.

Sanche Tehkeli wrote:

4. You're posing and gave no useful information/argument.

The same can be said about your post.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#860 - 2012-03-29 10:06:16 UTC
I hope he set his training queue.