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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-05-17 16:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Hey everyone. As we announced at the Fanfest keynote, we are rebalancing Freighters and Jump Freighters in the Kronos release. The biggest change in this rebalance is the addition of customizability to a class that has previously been entirely static.
We originally approached this through rig slots, but a few valid concerns were raised in this thread and we've made some significant adjustments to the plan to address them. The CSM has been a very significant help in this process.

The most significant issues raised in the thread are:
  • The permanence of customizability that relies completely on rigs. As the only classes to have rig slots alone with no fitting slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed customization towards a player's most common use cases, but would still lack the very important ability to adjust fittings in response to changing needs and environments.
  • The relative lack of interesting choices for Jump Freighter pilots. Due to the very unique situation of Jump Freighters, they did not receive very significant benefits from any rigs other than cargohold optimization. This is partially an issue with the lack of gameplay around JF use and their near complete safety when used optimally, but it also reflected a lack of good options.

To deal with the first issue, we are making the significant change of providing the goal of customizability through low slots rather than rig slots. Keeping this path balanced requires a few extra tricks but we believe that it will provide a more interesting set of gameplay choices for freighter pilots to make on an everyday basis.
All Freighters and Jump Freighters will receive 3 low slots, and not receive any rig slots. They will have very restrictive powergrid and cpu totals, and a special role bonus that allows the use of Reinforced Bulkhead modules.

In Kronos we are also adding a new set of low-slot warp speed enhancing modules that can be obtained through low-sec exploration. These modules will increase warp speed by a flat addition of 0.2, 0.25 or 0.3 au/s each. We expect that these will be popular modules for use on Freighters.

To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

So we expect that most Freighter and Jump Freighter pilots will use their three low slots to mix and match the following modules to meet their needs:
  • Expanded Cargoholds
  • Reinforced Bulkheads
  • Hyperspatial Accelerators (warp speed modules)
  • Inertia Stabilizers
  • Overdrive Injector Systems
  • (For certain armor tanking fits) Adaptive Nano Platings
  • (For Jump Freighters) Capacitor Power Relays
  • (For Jump Freighters after the Crius release) Jump Fuel Conservation Modules


The base cargo capacity of Freighters is being decreased so that a set of three Tech Two Expanded Cargoholds adds 21-25% cargo above the previous maximum values. For Jump Freighters, three T2 Expanders will increase cargo capacity by 1-2%.
This means that Freighters can get significantly higher maximum capacity than before using modules, and we're increasing the volume of packaged capital ships (to 1.3 million m3) and unpackaged station containers (to 2 million m3) to compensate.

The base EHP of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is being increased (since Expanded Cargoholds affect freighter hp more than cargo rigs do) and more emphasis is being placed on armor and shield than before (although all Freighters still gain the majority of their hitpoints from hull).
Note the change in the Jump Freighter HP bonus, which now only applies to their main tank and hull. The large increase in JF base HP and resist more than make up for the bonus change and all JFs have more base EHP than before.

PROVIDENCE

Amarr Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10000(+5000) / 46000(+22000) / 100000(-12500)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 70 / 0.0625 / 900,000,000 / 77.98s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 435000(-300000)m3


CHARON

Caldari Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3


OBELISK

Gallente Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 14000(+10687) / 40000(+17500) / 110000(-10000)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 65 / 0.0625 / 940,000,000 / 81.44s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 440000(-310000)m3


FENRIR

Minmatar Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 48000(+42375) / 22000(+750) / 65000(-35000)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 80 / 0.0625 / 820,000,000 / 71.05s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 435000(-285000)m3


ARK

Amarr Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility

Jump Freighters Bonus per level:
+10% to armor and hull hitpoints
-10% jump fuel requirements

Role Bonus:
100% reduction...

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#2 - 2014-05-17 16:13:29 UTC
This looks great!
Chinicata Shihari
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-05-17 16:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Chinicata Shihari
Looks okay. Not as bad as we thought they would be. Prepare for destruction either way
Lazei
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-05-17 16:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Lazei
How are overloaded cargoholds handled when the patch hits for people who had logged off in space with full pre patch cargos? Tough luck that they didn't read patch notes?
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-05-17 16:25:41 UTC
Ouch -- that agility nerf on Jump Freighters is going to suck some. What's the thought process behind that?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2014-05-17 16:25:56 UTC
Paper thin freighters MINILUV ACTIVATE

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2014-05-17 16:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
See… there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very start… Straight

T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability and/or speed requried to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks.
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2014-05-17 16:29:04 UTC
man someone doesn't like jump freighters very much :v:
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2014-05-17 16:31:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
See… there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very start… Straight

T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks.


T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2014-05-17 16:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
CCP Fozzie wrote:
T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.

Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost.

I suppose I might as well dump it for a regular freighter with hull rigs — it should end up with about the same, or slightly better, performance than what I get out of the old 7bn crate. Ah well, it's had a good life and it certainly simplifies the training for the hauling alt I was considering. Lol
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2014-05-17 16:34:48 UTC
Why are jump freighters with T1 cargo rigs worse off than now? Even T2 rigs only gives a very small improvement.

How come the fairly pointless speed bonus on T1 freighters was left, rather being replaced with something more useful like agility or HP?
Steijn
Quay Industries
#12 - 2014-05-17 16:38:06 UTC
sorry, but that is nothing more than a massive nerf.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-05-17 16:39:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
See… there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very start… Straight

T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks.


T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.


That wasn't the point.
No one thought that getting rigs would leave us with a lower cargobay.
The reason people argued against was that you would end up with the same bay but a lower tank.
Plus the cost of rigs.
Still idc really just need to work out what cargo bay i need and then slam warp speed rigs on.
The JF agility nerf if going to be really annoying though. Only 2 rigs to make up the agility and cargo loss and just eat the tank loss i suppose.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2014-05-17 16:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Tippia wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.

Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost.


Actually the tank on your JF is about the same as before, thanks to the extra resists. So you get one of the three for free! Blink

But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#15 - 2014-05-17 16:40:23 UTC
I guess this is a direct nerf to null-high-null import/export, together with the increase in jump fuel consumption. At least you can produce directly in null now. Time to import some miners. Mineral hauler spawn elimination next?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#16 - 2014-05-17 16:40:58 UTC
It seems that you really hate freighters and jump freighters. Noted. Now just make it so that jump freighters cannot jump drive out of high sec and the circle of rage will be complete.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-05-17 16:42:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.

Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost.


Actually the tank on your JF is about the same as before, thanks to the extra resists. So you get one of the three for free! Blink

But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended.

Is the tank the same AFTER the two tech 2 cargo rigs? Because I'm guessing that in practice you get only one of the three, you can just change it based on rig selection.
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#18 - 2014-05-17 16:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Vulpine
For the JFs can you please also list the fuel consumption per LY and fuel bay size? Ideally clearly indicating whether this is under current fuel consumption mechanics or already accounting for +50% consumption increase?

Overall I'll admit I'm disappointed by this change. Roughly speaking I'll need to add a T1 and a T2 cargo rig to be able to move as much as before. So I'm paying ISK to attach things to my ship, getting the same cargo capacity but less EHP. The shift of HP from hull to armor, overall reduction of HP so that the addition of T2 resists didn't change the overall EHP also increases the impact of the rig armor reduction.
For their primary purpose therefore this is a nerf.

The shift of HP away from structure in to the other sections also makes the resist profile more important. With Kin/therm damage the primary type used by gankers I do hope this has been taken in to account.

I like the idea of being able to make trade offs with rigs, I understand having to tone down the impact of the hull rigs to freighter and JF EHP. I don't like the fact that really you are nerfing my starting point without providing me with any significant option to increase the primary purpose - moving large volumes of things.

Currently though I'm underwhelmed and would prefer to not have the options. Focus the time on other ships that need it.

Edit:
If you are hell bent on making them "customizable" can you add some fuel consumption and/or jump range rigs? You could always limit them to JFs if you are worried about the impact on other caps.
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2014-05-17 16:46:10 UTC
The people have got what they asked for, let the bloodbath begin Twisted

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
#20 - 2014-05-17 16:46:30 UTC
What the **** ? That's some dumb changes.
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