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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

First post First post First post
Author
Gamberone
Fwaming Dwagons
Entropic Thunder
#41 - 2014-05-17 17:10:03 UTC
This change is stupid. You don't need to change anything on the JF to allow cargo rigs. Increasing the size of capitals and station freight containers makes sense.

CCP Fozzie are you saying here that JF's were OP? Why do they need this Nerf, please explain.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2014-05-17 17:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Querns wrote:
Why not rig it for warp speed, instead? You spend a lot more time in warp then you do aligning.
Hmm, well yes, with these changes that will certainly be the case. Lol
I suppose it also doesn't hurt that much of I lose 10% from my irrelevant 1 tf CPU.

Quote:
Regarding the safety angle, rigging for hull HP is going to be a lot more effective at safeguarding you than align.
Yes, but with the already low cargo capacity, I'll end up with a ship that will only carry slightly more than an Orca, with the Orca still being (far) faster and more sturdy. If I did it with a regular freighter, it might be an idea (as mentioned in my first post edit), but it won't save my trusty old Nomad.

Also, told you so!

…dammit, missed by one post.
Alcorak
The Syndicate.
Hell Dawn
#43 - 2014-05-17 17:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alcorak
T1 freighters already can't use their own cargo holds effectively. Fill it with too much stuff and you're just a kill mail waiting to happen. While I'm all for juicy freighter kills, the fact is that they are not capable of filling their designed role. They actually have TOO LITTLE in the way of EHP and freighter pilots have been crying about it for years. While I like the idea of rigs for customization, this nerf is a step in the wrong direction and is only happening to justify the existence of capital sized rigs.

On another note - I've noticed that many combat ships have been getting some really cool skins lately and that haulers in general don't have them yet. Since freighters are giant haulers of shiney things, I'd like to propose a piñata themed skin for freighters.
BackStreet Babe
ZC Productions
#44 - 2014-05-17 17:11:19 UTC
poor changes. now you have to spend 1.2b extra on a jf to get to the same cargo as before but a with slower align.

don't bother with adding rigs to these ships if this half arsed bollocks is what you come up with
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-05-17 17:11:35 UTC
Posting to voice dissatisfaction in these implementations. This is a chain reaction of decisions around the move to rig these hulls. The process isn't flawed, the hulls just shouldn't get rigs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2014-05-17 17:12:03 UTC
BackStreet Babe wrote:
poor changes. now you have to spend 1.2b extra on a jf to get to the same cargo as before but a with slower align.
Yes, but it will most likely also be a bit weaker too.
Kember Ibuen
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-05-17 17:12:07 UTC
Yet another win for the gankers as if it isn't already easy enough for them to kill freighters. I don't think I'm going to be playing this game much longer the way things are heading.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-05-17 17:12:14 UTC
The jf nerfs are stupid and unnecessary.

You can't start buffing nullsec industry while nerfing jumpfreighters, that's just stupid.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-05-17 17:12:31 UTC
So left me get this straight.

I have a perfect skilled Charon now, I can haul the most of any non-jumpable ship in the game.. But now, I need to dump another 1.5-2 BILLION isk in Cargo and Tank rigs to get back where I am now ?

How is this fair to anyone ? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of rigs and all, but you're adding a huge expense to those of us who already have freighters, to keep doing what we are doing.
Daandrah
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2014-05-17 17:12:51 UTC
I don't like it
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#51 - 2014-05-17 17:12:57 UTC
Seriously? You are nerfing freighters? I... I can't believe it!

They are flismy enough as they are, the last thing they need is an EHP nerf.

So now I can use rigs. Great, but the freighter is just going to be worse than before, at a higher cost.

I don't really mind that the hold is shrinking, eventhough I don't know why you would do that. I do, however, mind that the EHP/m3 is going down, eventhough the price increases.

What's the point of "rebalancing" freighters, if it's only to reduce the profitable ganking threshhold even more?

The tiericide made it dirt-cheap to suicide-gank freighters, so I was expecting this balance pass to give a massive buff to freighters.

Considering unsubbing my freighter alt now, and I don't think I'd be the only one.

Can't really comment on JFs I don't use those, maybe their nerf is deserved.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2014-05-17 17:14:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Querns wrote:
Why not rig it for warp speed, instead? You spend a lot more time in warp then you do aligning.
Hmm, well yes, with these changes that will certainly be the case. Lol
I suppose it also doesn't hurt that much of I lose 10% from my irrelevant 1 tf CPU.

Quote:
Regarding the safety angle, rigging for hull HP is going to be a lot more effective at safeguarding you than align.
Yes, but with the already low cargo capacity, I'll end up with a ship that will only carry slightly more than an Orca, with the Orca still being (far) faster and more sturdy. If I did it with a regular freighter, it might be an idea (as mentioned in my first post edit), but it won't save my trusty old Nomad.
.

your nomad was already a bad choice because many gankers will kill jfs on sight rather than just cost-effective ones
Theng Hofses
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2014-05-17 17:15:46 UTC
So we have a combination of industry changes which will in all likelihood demand more hauling and add to it a change that makes hauling more difficult/expensive, which should drive prices up.

One would have expected that one would be offset by other other instead they are compounded. The ones that seem to get hurt here are the smaller manufacturers as the large scale manufacturers are simply adding more freighters and jump freighters to the mix. If you lose your only and now more expensive freighter it's a catastrophe for a small guy, if you have ten running simultaneously, then it's no big deal.

I am struggling to see how this makes the game more enjoyable and less of a grind. Can someone explain what the thought process was here and what the intended outcome is? Admittedly, I am with the slow team and I don't catch on how these things in the game actually work.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-05-17 17:17:17 UTC
I dont get the heavy nerf to cargo capacity on these ships particularly the JF

You are RAISING the cost of moving goods by 50% with your changes to isotope usage and many of us (now wrongly) thoguht that we could recoup some of that by rigging the JF for additional cargo space.

Now we are rigging just to keep what we had.

This is bad for the game imho - null is already difficult for anyone NEW to get into - its hard for small corps/alliances to set up and they all rely on JF services which will now become even MORE expensive to haul things.

Im sorry but this is a bad change - coupled with TONS of other changes that are not even on SiSi yet that affect the entire fabric of the game and CCP you now have me worried.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#55 - 2014-05-17 17:17:29 UTC
So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.
Dave Stark
#56 - 2014-05-17 17:17:39 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Seriously? You are nerfing freighters? I... I can't believe it!

you can't believe that CCP would introduce something people have been asking for, for a long time?

are you unaware how proud CCP are of their communication with the playerbase, and how willing they are to embrace player ideas than reject everything in some kind of silly power play like other developers?

this thread encapsulates what we love about CCP as a company. that, and the fact that all these tears are delicious.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2014-05-17 17:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Can't really comment on JFs I don't use those, maybe their nerf is deserved.

It's kind of deserved from the viewpoint of how easily they can just bypass many dangers with their jump drive. This change balances that out by making all the parts where you can't jump a lot more slow and dangerous.

As for the rest, it was all to be expected. Hence the obligatory “told you so”. Lol

Retar Aveymone wrote:
your nomad was already a bad choice because many gankers will kill jfs on sight rather than just cost-effective ones
If they're out to get me, yes. But outside of special occasions, that's pretty much never the case. Four years and not so much a a lock-on suggests that it was a pretty good choice since it's such a poor target. Blink

Your perspective is likely to vary with your corp ticker, though.
Jedediah Arndtz
Jedediah Arndtz Corporation
#58 - 2014-05-17 17:18:45 UTC
So CCP is effectively doubling the cost of freighters. Thanks. Thanks a bunch. Just this morning I thought to myself that I wanted to spend 3b to get the same utility out of a ship that used to cost 1.5.

Versatility's all well and good, but that's not even close to worth it. Switch them to large rigs, and sure.
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics
Red-Frog
#59 - 2014-05-17 17:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Fel
Way to take a dump on haulers Fozzie. Less tank+less agility+less cargo space but if you spend a lot more isk on your already expensive ship you can fix one, maybe two of those nerfs. Not to mention the 50% more fuel consumption coming soon.

I assume that your goal is to spread industry out all over null so that local markets can do everything themselves. Unfortunately, I believe that the exact opposite is what's going to happen. Hauling nerfs are going to cause people to congregate even more closely together than they already do, not encourage them to spread out more. There just aren't enough people interested in doing every aspect of industry in every corner of the universe and forcing people to do things that they don't want to do doesn't generally work out well.
Proton Power
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#60 - 2014-05-17 17:19:49 UTC
This is stupid; period....

Yes they have the same EHP's; but rigs are less effective now because of the hitpoints being seperated from hull... So 3 hull rigs wil not be near as effective a before..

Gankability; from what I can tell freighters will be just as gankable now and be valued more due to rigs.


This is in no way helpful to freighters; it is pure nerf unless you only haul small amounts and put in 3 rigs for war/speed/agilty; Everyoen else that uses freighters for what they are meant have been nerfed...