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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Cade Windstalker
#461 - 2017-06-02 21:19:27 UTC
The really funny thing here is all these people claiming that CCP don't read, don't listen, don't play the game, ect.

Now go back and read the last Rorqual thread and there were people suggesting what?

Oh right, a change to the instantaneous respawn times on Ore Anoms. Oh and several people in the last thread pointed out that the Ice drones hadn't been touched as well.

If I had to guess Rorqual mining has continued to go up in volume and that's the reason for the changes. There's a hint of an upward trend at the end of last month's MER graph and judging from this thread the one for May will probably show a continued upward trend in production, and the general price trend for minerals supports this.

Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#462 - 2017-06-02 21:29:16 UTC
It still staggers me how much CCP is willing to push Eve as a "sandbox" while punishing player behaviour in that sandbox.
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#463 - 2017-06-02 21:29:26 UTC
Well here I am with a toon I made specifically to train into a Rorqual. And here I am biomassing that toon.
Thead Enco
Goonswarm Federation
#464 - 2017-06-02 21:43:19 UTC
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Digital Vendetta
#465 - 2017-06-02 21:47:58 UTC
Prospektor Schipplock wrote:
Amarisen Gream

its not the the change itself, its the change of gameplaying we have to faced.

If we had a change, like moon mining, so we can kept our mining fleet busy, than its ok. The change here is in my eyes to early.

I will agree with you there. As I think I posted before.
Increase the size of the belts from the current 100km to 300km and make them like 1-8k km with more rocks, including HS/LS ore. 70/20/10 ratio HS/LS/NS. And only let them start a respawn once cleared. No refresh to the whole thing is depleted

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Koshea Waters
Caldari State
#466 - 2017-06-02 21:51:31 UTC
7 months ago CCP announced changes for Mining for the better when they made the rorqual the ultimate mining machine.

7 months ago I resubscribed to EVE after 7 years gone and ventured out into null sec for the first time.

I could fly a hulk with perfect skills but mining got boring and missions were just a grind.

Now I had to play catch up and be able to sit in doctrine ships and shoot guns but all the while my ultimate goal was getting into that rorqual and bringing home the big bucks.

Oh sure it's a huge investment, more money than I had ever seen in my career and 5 minutes in a siege cycle is an eternity when you see neutrals in system but despite the risks, the HUGE investment and being left vulnerable for long periods of time risks. It's worth it because for a single box player like myself, there is just nothing better for mining than a rorqual. The Capitol Ship of mining. Just like Super Ratting is the pinacle of ratting. Of course when I get there the goal post will have moved so many times it wont be worth it anymore, the risk of this lumbering beast is just too great for your average player. So yes, cater to only the largest alliances who can have 23/7 protection for their mining fleets as it doesn't matter how bad the Rorqual is, as long as it beats a Hulk it will be THE ship to mine in, and since it's so protected they can bring 10 alts with rorquals no matter how bad it is.

Here's a hint, make mining in a rorqual a more interactive experience, like carriers ratting or exploration so you can't dual box nearly as much and you will do far better at slowing down the problems with rorquals than you will by just giving a flat nerf.

Anyway thanks for s**ting on the last 7 months of my time CCP.
Silent Industry
Silent Company
#467 - 2017-06-02 22:03:39 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
So, I'm actually torn on these changes. On the one hand, this basically reads:

"Dear Goons, through incredible investment of time, money, and effort in your space and the coordination required to defend it you have become able to utilize the Rorqual at it's theoretical limit. We did not anticipate this in the design phase, and we waited until many many players were heavily invested before we took steps to fix it. In short, you will now be punished for being very good at being a nullsec alliance. Also, these changes will apparently break the risk/reward calculus for smaller organizations, so they get punished for Goons being good at Nullsec too."

On the other hand, I can absolutely see how Rorquals are gutting the minerals market in their current form. Given that mining is something people from all regions of the game engage in, that is also a huge problem.

But, Fozzie and the rest of the team, here is the central problem you aren't going to fix by nerfing the Rorq into the floor: The Imperium is going to keep using the crap out of these until you reduce their yield below that of a Mackinaw. I already have four characters at max skills, and I already bought the hulls and drones. Until it's crappier than a barge the Rorq will continue to represent the best isk/hour I can earn while folding my laundry. Meanwhile you will render the hull worthless to players in alliances less able to secure their space.

So I get that you are between a rock and a hard place here. Make the Rorq a doorstop again and save the minerals market. Keep the Rorq as the king of mining and watch Goons bury ever poor new player trying to mine with his Venture in highsec.

However, that is assuming that the only variable that can change is Rorqual yield. I know there are lots of other project and priorities, but might it be worth taking a look at mining in a broader scope? Mining is awful as gameplay, especially in highsec. It might make more sense to remove the direct competition between null and high for lowends, and instead make something unique, valuable, and maybe a bit rare spawn there to give something worthwhile to mine.

Think of it like this. Right now everyone mines the same basic ores, weather they have shovels or massive industrial equipment. So we got better industrial equipment and now the guys with shovels are getting crushed. Would it make sense to give the smaller miners occasional targets that are valuable in smaller amounts but require effort to find? That would diversify mining into two different professions, one for massive industrial harvesting through group cohesion and the other much more like a prospector roaming in search of a gold strike. That could be MUCH more interesting for a new player or alpha clone.

It's not very often I find myself agreeing with a member of the Goonswarm Federation, but I can't find a single thing in this post I disagree with. I couldn't put it better than this.
Ben Ishikela
#468 - 2017-06-02 23:01:44 UTC
Finaly some ceiling for more system spread.
Took long enough.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Half Empty
#469 - 2017-06-02 23:08:11 UTC
when was the last time an update to this game excited you
Half Empty
#470 - 2017-06-02 23:08:56 UTC
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#471 - 2017-06-02 23:22:08 UTC
Capqu wrote:
when was the last time an update to this game excited you

Command Dessies...
Jump range nerfs and small groups being able to use caps again...
Boosts being put ongrid...
Medical clones removed...
Probe interface improvements...
Ship skins...
Sooooo many different gfx improvements...

Citadels...ehhh kinda...they're awesome to use and insta undocks, swapping jump clones etc is awesome...just need tweaking so they're not god mode for large alliances moving their caps and supers around.

So yeah...plenty tbh.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#472 - 2017-06-02 23:26:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks.
We continue to keep a close eye on the impacts of the changes to mining ships that have been made over the past six months. After this observation we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy. This isn't the first of such changes, and once again it is unlikely to be the last.

In the June release we are making a few targeted changes to Nullsec Asteroid Clusters (the ore anomalies created by the Ore Prospecting Array upgrade) and Excavator drones.

Firstly, we are adding a respawn cooldown to all Asteroid Cluster anomalies. This cooldown scales based on the size of the anomaly:
  • 20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
  • 1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
  • 2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
  • 5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

These changes will only have a significant impact on the absolute busiest nullsec mining systems. The vast majority of nullsec miners will not be negatively impacted. The pilots mining in those few extremely busy systems will have the option of staggering when they mine, or simply spreading out to a few extra systems.

We are also making some more small adjustments to the Excavator drones themselves. In June the changes are:
  • About 9% less yield for Ore Excavators
  • 12.5% lower speed for Ore Excavators
  • About 11% longer cycle time for Ice Excavators
  • 10% lower speed for Ice Excavators

We will continue observing the economy after these changes and making adjustments as necessary to keep it healthy for all our players.
As soon as i saw the authors name my gut churned with the knowledge these changes were going to once again NOT address issues but simply add more nerfs.

CCP Fozzie - The only Dev you can rely on to screw you over and call it "balance". Can't really blame it on him though, he is just the scapegoat, the ugly face of "CCP don't know what they are doing"

To all other Devs, you have a nice pasty in Fozzie, I hope you all buy him beers. I mean honestly who in their right mind would deliberately set out to make themselves less popular with the community.,.

-- - -- - -- - --
One question though (which I know won't get answered) Is the 9% yield nerf including the 12.5% speed nerf or are they individual nerfs to make it a really major nerf to drone mining?
More Travel time = less yield
9% reduction in yield + 12.5% reduction in speed = A bloody big nerf.

we have decided that we need to make another intervention to keep the economy healthy
Which simply means - We want to see mineral prices go up so we are making mining with Rorquals even more risky and less productive, all in one sweep.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Omega Salvager
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#473 - 2017-06-03 00:06:56 UTC
24 pages of the vast majority telling CCP how dumb of an idea it is, but what will Fozzie do? Not a damn thing. Disgraceful for a company who claims they listen to their playerbase.
Crash 888
#474 - 2017-06-03 00:12:20 UTC
miner, calm down.
Inactive Seller
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#475 - 2017-06-03 00:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Inactive Seller
Do u remember when ppl begin to extract boosters when off grid boosts ?

Myself had 45 accounts of character active using or training , not skill farms. Now i downsize to 8 for the way the game is taking.

All character bazaar done. Finally 39 pilot and 3 can be killed later. This account will be used only for forum interaction, fly safe.

SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#476 - 2017-06-03 00:13:01 UTC
rorqs create content, I don't really mine, but pls no nerfs, if anything make it where more people will stop ratting in carriers that stay aligned the whole time in saftey and have more people in sieged rorqs. With the PANIC and siege, rorqs are basically the perfect thing to create escalating content in nullsec without more timers. I hate timers, I like rorqs for that reason.
Coelus Kugisa
Caldari State
#477 - 2017-06-03 00:16:17 UTC
At what point of nerfing is the Rorqual considered a bait-and-switch scam worthy of a class action lawsuit to recover players lost time and investment?

Seriously. What if you went out spent $120,000 a sports car that was capable of 200mph, and three service trips to the dealership later they put in a new motor and transmission that only let it top out at 80mph because the manufacturer claimed 1% of owners drove too fast? That car is now as capable as a $20,000 car and you would want your money back because you were scammed.

In RL money a rorqual is roughly $114. If there are 5000 of them in the game that is $570,000 of player investment; not counting any injectors to skill those pilots up, that has been pissed away by the playerbase. That's enough to buy CCP employees designer jeans, pay the salary for a couple dev teams, or for 9500 players to buy a AAA game title on release.

Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#478 - 2017-06-03 00:36:09 UTC
So first off, we get OP is shocked when they get nerfed, we are irritated they get nerfed again but then pretty much spit in CCPs face and mine up almost 7 TRILLION value in Delve. Another nerf was honestly expected after seeing those numbers. That's not great, but ok cool, we will adapt, just adding more accounts etc.

The main issue I have here, along with most other people around it seems, is the timers on belts.

Here is my concern: With the introduction of Citadels and EC's, people have set up 'home systems' within their corps and alliances where they have got their EC production backbone set up investing up to 100+ billion on structures to build capitals, supers, titans and whatever else they want. This was encouraged by CCP. We did it safe in the knowledge that we could undck, warp to an anom (be it Ratting or Mining) and pretty much stay local, maybe having to move to a surrounding system if our home got busy or a WH popped up. That's fine, normal and expected.

Now what we have in 100's of billions invested in static infrastructure that realistically cannot be moved (loose rigs..and screw that!) and now out of the blue we get timered ore anoms roughly 6 months after EC's got put in, enough time to get Sotiyos, Azbels etc set up, running and all happy dappy. Granted Rorqs have a very large jump range (10ly if your serious about using them) and yes you can jump to a nice medium EC/Citadel as a waypoint for tether and be pretty much 100% safe, unless you bounce or screw up.

Now that is fine for the old guys in Null, they can fly a rorq, they can jump, they can do whatever. It's the newbros we have to worry about now. They can indeed store their barges/exhumers in a rorq and have it jumped and jump into a ceptor and fly over, but would that make mining 'fun' for them? Spending a decent percentage of their tme moving around to ge the dregs the Rorqs leave behind for them, or being relegated to Mercoxite miners and nothing more?

Now here is the final kicker that actually annoys me about the respawn timers:

I'm an Aussie, the time between EU and US is my prime time. Hey guess what? Both have eaten the collosal belt..I only have 2 hours to play and wanted to get 30-60 minutes mining in before a strat op or whatever...guess what I can't do now? Yep...mine. I mean I COULD mine..but I would have ot spend 20 minutes on an alt in a ceptor trying to find a belt worth jumping to (fuel cost to jump whilst tiny, adds up if your only mining for a short time span before having to stop/log) or just settling on a small or medium belt that would just add low ends to my stockpile when I already have billions and billions of that crap in the hangers that I simply can't use.

Here is something of a minor solution: Fix the consumption amounts for capital/super/titan ships and their components to use more low ends maybe? Or change the split of Null ore anoms to have less of the low ends and more of the mid/high ends to promote importing for HS (which I would have but what can you do, got to meet on the middle ground, right?) This way we could have the ore anoms around without a timer and the low end market doesn't go the way of the dodo. Maybe even gut the respawn timer to 50% of what it is. 2.5 hours for a collosal, whilst a kick in the nuts, is painfully acceptable.

Another solution is to have more random ore anoms pop up like the 'Small Bistot/Arkanor Deposite' that needs to be scanned out (or just how they are now, just more often spawn) This would let people do some mining when the big statics are gone and lets people in barges/exhumers grab some high ends that are always cherry picked down in Delve by the big guys (I'm sure cherry picked all over the place as well). This would balance out the 'awwww anoms worth mining and I only have an hour to play/mine and I REALLY don't want to to asteroid belt mining cos they pop so damned fast' situations. It would also encorage a mini profession of prospect miners (not the ship the prospect, but the activity of prospecting systems for 'gold)

Sad thing is people, CCP isn't gothing to bother changing this as it's coming out on the 13th or something like that. They are in panic damage control mode and our elected CSM seem to of been able to do diddly squat for out interests as CCP seems top of ignored them too...I feel sorry for those guys and gals, I really do (the CSM)
The Initiative.
#479 - 2017-06-03 00:36:32 UTC

Mixed feeling on this to be honest . Yes something needs to be done to address some form of balance with the current mining output but does it really have to be yet again at the expense of the individual Rorqual pilot who has chosen x path for whatever reason to make his isk . Bare with me a moment and I will expand below.

CCP has a history of changing stats and swinging the nerf bat , and yes we all were warned that the last changes would likely not be the last and yet we still trained it . The skill requirements that are needed to make this evil machine run alone take a long period of time to train, and are to be fare a pain in the ass not to mention the cost of those skills and then the crazy price tag to fit the beast. All to perform a task which is at its core incredibly dull if we are all honest.

Yet for all that dedication and isk/time you reward said players with a kick to the groin yet again without exploring other options, just straight to the we will make it right by punishing those individuals that have chosen to take the plunge. Maybe its time that CCP held there hands up and said yip we cocked up and cant do the math , we are sorry for messing you guys about so we are gonna pull a few late shifts and maybe work the weekend to come up with a solution that doesn't screw you over.

I mean what is wrong with off setting some of the problem by increasing the build requirements that are needed by 5-10% for example . Solves the problem of ever decreasing prices by making the base cost a little more so helps to stabilize the economy . Promotes the need to rat a little more to make that % in isk , adding more players for x time to x anom or such adds more viable targets in space for longer = more content, without removing the mining targets in rorqs and barges from the table which = less content. Most importantly it doesn't annoy and frustrate those Rorq pilots who love to feed that Dreadbomb content cos we all love to see a big bad kill reports cos its guess what content.

Finally and sorry for going on but it seems to me that when taking statistics about mining and the like that that info should be gleaned from a period of time that doesn't include large holiday periods . I suspect but havnt seen the ammounts that if you took April for example you would see a rather large scarey spike. That spike if it is there would be due to public holidays such as Easter in that month . Lots of people on holiday from school, uni and work logging on to do something to fill in the time. Spikes like that that should not be included as I feel and maybe I'm wrong here they don't allow for a true picture .

Cheers for reading and flame if you feel the need ;)_

Cheers Kandi 0,./
Lord Heluene
#480 - 2017-06-03 00:55:09 UTC
So I have seen tons of complaints about the respawn times

20 minutes for the Small Asteroid Cluster
1 hour for the Medium Asteroid Cluster
2 hours for the Large Asteroid Cluster variants
4 hours for the Enormous Asteroid Cluster variants
5 hours for the Colossal Asteroid Cluster variants

Now I know you can't efficiently get 50 rorqs into one small belt, but come on spread out your fleet a little How long does it really take anymore to clear a belt? Work your way thru them. Also, if you have dozens of rorqs to mine probably have more than one system at lvl 5 move to another system, clear that one, and them come back.