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[June] Nullsec Asteroid Cluster and Excavator Drone changes

First post First post
Author
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#201 - 2017-06-02 01:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Dirk MacGirk wrote:

... However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


CCP plz learn from this. Stop going back to the old-school CCP way of super nerf followed by super buff followed by super nerf followed by super buff seesaw that makes people hate you. Be measured and be Scientific in your approach by limiting the changing variable as much as possible to see how your changes are panning out, otherwise you don't know what is affecting your game.
Zuzzin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2017-06-02 01:10:53 UTC
Fozzie et. al.
At what point will you concede that on grid boosting for mining was a mistake. The carrot you used to bring the boosting ships out of poses has killed the traditional mining gameplay, and that that carrot was way over powered to make it palatable to the player base. The lower skilled player gameplay of the mining barge miner is all but gone, she now needs to mine in the same belt as a sieged rorq.

Why don't you turn half the rorqs into refineries and allow them to provide corp/fleet boosts based on access standings.

Re purpose the rorq and orca as bulk moon material / PI / Mineral / Ore transport.

my 2c

Sean Jester
ChemiKals
Goonswarm Federation
#203 - 2017-06-02 01:19:08 UTC
As a multiboxing miner, I approve this change in all its forms. It was about time honestly.
Fortunately we have a cancer to game mechanics that goes by the name of GSF, so it won't be long before they'll break through this change, again.

Which is not that difficult to imagine, just more machines on the field and jumping every 10 minutes that they get a colossal killed or go to an enormous (too much effort I know).

I think Oxygen 'topes are gonna spike a bit...
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#204 - 2017-06-02 01:20:38 UTC
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Erick Asmock
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#205 - 2017-06-02 01:24:02 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


But scarcity should be a thing realized by all. Not just systems in Null with upgrades.
Inquisitor Lucious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2017-06-02 01:33:20 UTC
Erick Asmock wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


But scarcity should be a thing realized by all. Not just systems in Null with upgrades.


They wont nerf High Sec, the land of training wheels and trophies for competing, instead null sec mining will become nerfed, then there will be changes to null sec anoms when we all super rat, so we will go back to the tried and true methods of unlimited wealth in eve, namely high sec incursions or faction warfare on dedicated out of alliance alts.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#207 - 2017-06-02 01:36:59 UTC
This thread looks like a feast of miner tears. Bookmarking for later consumption

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#208 - 2017-06-02 01:37:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie,

I thought you wanted people to play Eve. Not log off from the game. I thought you wanted a vibrant game environment around the clock. That's the appeal of the single-shard server, right? So why are you blocking entire chunks of the player base out of activities?

You know that not everyone occupies an entire region, right? Not everyone can move from system to system mining continuously. Why are you forcing people into region-wide coalitions in order to do anything?

Please explain to me why mining should be a time-zone restricted activity. Didn't we go through this resource depletion years ago? When people who were able to log in immediately after downtime could strip belts and people unable to log in then got nothing? Or they could take all the nice loot from the complexes and leave nothing for everyone else? You do remember those days, right? Because that's what you have given us with this change.

If someone has cherry-picked my available belts and left only the bad rocks for me to mine, under your system, I can mine for hours making 50m/hour in a 12B ISK ship andI never get the benefit of clearing the belt, because all I am doing is benefiting someone else who logs in after I am asleep and cherry-picks the belt again. It happens all the time with ice belts now. I watch people alarm clock to be the first to log in and go get the good ice. Then they go play another game or do something else until some other sucker finishes the belt and the four hour timer is over.

Why would I bother trying to finish off a cherry-picked belt if the best I can hope for is to then log off for five hours in hopes of getting some decent ore? Do you want people to play this game or not?

Or, if I finish off a cherry-picked small belt, I get rewarded with twenty minutes of inactivity or another activity. At least make the rocks in the smaller belts worth sticking a Rorqual on without having to reposition every few minutes.

Or, even if I am not a miner, why is it a bad thing that people are out there stuck in space, unable to warp off, mining rocks, around the clock? I want targets I can hunt in every time zone. I want activity around the clock in Eve. I don't want that activity to consist 100% of Carriers and Supercarriers who are fully aligned towards Citadels and warp off the instant I enter local. That's no fun at all, but that's what you are causing.

This change is as bad as allowing the horrible time zone tanking citadel mechanics to continue. Please reconsider it. Come up with something, anything, that makes people get out in space and do things.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Jita Cashier
Jita Cash Industries
#209 - 2017-06-02 01:38:20 UTC
Ive always refrained from trying to comment on these **** threads that Fozzie keeps putting out but really man... you are just horrible for industry.... you have now made a rorqual the same efficiency as a fuckin hulk... but its gonna cost ya roughly 10b for a well fit rorqual and months of training.... so do me a favor. cheapen up the damn rorqual

idk what you are trying to do fozzie but god damn i furious. youve ruined what ive trained for months for. was dying to mine in my rorqual and now its fuckin useless compaired to my hulk.
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#210 - 2017-06-02 01:42:58 UTC
Shurdo wrote:



Maybe CCP should apply the same principle to ratting anoms as they are proposing for the mining anoms. That should provide a more balanced playing field.


We've made that case as well. If you beat the hell out of a pirate faction 24/7, why do they not learn to move or not come back as quickly. Ratting shouldn't be immune to over farming, but we do have to be careful that we don't go too far and chip away at the changes that encouraged higher player density because those did have a purpose within the grand scheme of sov nullsec. I'm not sure that timers are the trick in that case, but I do think CCP hasn't pulled the levers they have on ISK faucets the way they have on resource faucets.
sin ex
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#211 - 2017-06-02 01:45:53 UTC
inb4 CCP adds similar respawn timers for the ratting anoms
Zetadelta333
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2017-06-02 01:48:13 UTC
This is a great change, rorqs should never have been turned into the endgame for mining, it should have stayed a mining support vessel, augmenting exhumers and not replacing them, yet in the fevor to force them into the belt they were far over buffed to entice people to provide them as killmails for the years of tears of them being safe inside shields. Now look at the oversaturation of the market, minerals, capitals, subcaps that arnt t2.
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#213 - 2017-06-02 01:49:52 UTC
Erick Asmock wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
The MacGirk-Ayrania Make Depletion Great Again ORE Anomaly Act of YC 119 - Sorry, but we've been calling for this long enough that it deserves a proper name.

The idea of respawn timers for the anoms is completely sensible and adds a sense of depletion, which is sorely missing from this game in most areas of ISK and resource faucets. Anoms were never designed for a time with mining rorquals in mind and definitely needed to be changed. Not just in terms of material content, but in terms of respawn rates. You clear cut your forest and it takes some time to grow back. So stop whining and be better stewards of the land.

However, that change was in and of itself sufficient. The addition of a third nerf to excavators is overkill, and makes it harder to determine the outcome from the anomaly change. Why not see where that goes before dumping on excavators and Rorqual once again?


But scarcity should be a thing realized by all. Not just systems in Null with upgrades.


Not sure I get your specific reference, but systems without upgrades do have scarcity and depletion. Scarcity in terms of both ore types as well as number of static belts. Depletion in terms of grow/respawn happening twice weekly in null, daily in high, etc. Or did you mean something else?
Smugest Sniper
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2017-06-02 01:51:15 UTC
All this change does is spread mining out into more systems. screw over smaller people, and further put people under the boot of a block with more space.

expect to see all of someone's owned space go to 6 adm's, with belts getting camped on a timer.

no one will be using barges anymore, we've already seen that despite the cost, you are far better served in having more rorquals than any other ship on the field to flip belts as fast as possible especially now that you are considering belt timers.

This will only encourage the spread of big entities in holding swaths of space purely to pump their war machine for more capitals.

Goons will hold the entire west side of null just to support their mining needs.

NC PL already hold the north east pretty firmly and can just filter through horde for their needs.

Testco don't believe in miners and will just buy caps from low sec or elsewhere.

Your changes are both ineffective and annoying to bottom line players.

Don't **** with the industry players, you should know this by now.
Dinin Dalael
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2017-06-02 01:53:59 UTC
Ghillie Troll Askold wrote:
"Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center" what a joke. You don't care about feedback do you. You clearly didn't care the last time we told you Rorquals need to not be nerfed, and I doubt you'll listen this time. I don't know how many times it has to be said, but this is literally how so many games have died: by not listening to the community. Pushing changes that the vast majority of your playerbase disapproves of are how you lose subscribers. Bait-and-switch BS like we've seen with the Rorqual are what cause players to look elsewhere.

Do not push a change without considering the effects beforehand, and do not push changes that go against the community. That is how games die. I only hope you learn before it's too late.

Just revert the Rorqual changes already and get it over with instead of quietly trying to sweep under the rug the obvious fact that you saw an opportunity to create a surge in PLEX and extractor sales, and you took it, not caring about the ramifications of having to then basically render the mechanics created in the process useless.



Rorquals needed a nerf the 1st and 2nd time. It possibly needs a nerf now too. The problem is in the way they're nerfing it. Adding timers to the belts respawn causes so many problems, its just not a good idea.
Thead Enco
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#216 - 2017-06-02 01:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Thead Enco
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Shurdo wrote:



Maybe CCP should apply the same principle to ratting anoms as they are proposing for the mining anoms. That should provide a more balanced playing field.


We've made that case as well. If you beat the hell out of a pirate faction 24/7, why do they not learn to move or not come back as quickly. Ratting shouldn't be immune to over farming, but we do have to be careful that we don't go too far and chip away at the changes that encouraged higher player density because those did have a purpose within the grand scheme of sov nullsec. I'm not sure that timers are the trick in that case, but I do think CCP hasn't pulled the levers they have on ISK faucets the way they have on resource faucets.


So it's 2011 again at CCP and they intend to drive more people to buy plex vs. earning in game?
Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#217 - 2017-06-02 02:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Graabeerd Khagah
@CCP Fozzie,

Out of all due respect sir, I realize these changes you are making may have some drastic game changing effects especially in mining ores, ice, and probably gas as well. I cannot understand your line of thinking but then again I do respect your efforts to try to "balance" the game out, and this path you been going on now since sov changes is, I dunno.

I am hoping that what ever kind of balancing act you can come up with instead of going backwards, go forwards to making Eveonline Great Again.

Respectfully yours,

Admiral Graabeerd Khagah.
Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#218 - 2017-06-02 02:07:57 UTC
if you're killing rorq yields AND speed AND anom refresh rates, what are you really balancing? Your paycheck? Because you don't deserve a raise with this BS.

Seriously, I understand your desire to ruin Goons (well that one guy who multiboxes what is it? 80 to 100 rorqs?) empire, but come on man, this is heavy handed and petty. The number of people who have injected millions of skillpoints to get into rorqs, the number of killmails generated by killing rorqs...you tell me. Is this really a smart business decision?

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#219 - 2017-06-02 02:10:19 UTC
@ccp fozzy
You havent mentioned any counter balance to the fact these changes just made it even easier for people to catch rorquals by reducing the number of locations they are likely to be

will it be a reduction to the siege cycle time?
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#220 - 2017-06-02 02:11:10 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Shurdo wrote:



Maybe CCP should apply the same principle to ratting anoms as they are proposing for the mining anoms. That should provide a more balanced playing field.


We've made that case as well. If you beat the hell out of a pirate faction 24/7, why do they not learn to move or not come back as quickly. Ratting shouldn't be immune to over farming, but we do have to be careful that we don't go too far and chip away at the changes that encouraged higher player density because those did have a purpose within the grand scheme of sov nullsec. I'm not sure that timers are the trick in that case, but I do think CCP hasn't pulled the levers they have on ISK faucets the way they have on resource faucets.


So it's 2011 again at CCP and they intend to drive more people to buy plex vs. earning in game?


Maybe we got too used to easy money. Which it always has been and always will be because they want players to have enough to finance their game play. But the earn-in-game versus earn-out-of-game and buy PLEX has been a calculation since GTCs (and later PLEX) were introduced. For the record, I'm not wholeheartedly endorsing a nerf to incomes. I was just answering a question and saying that some of the faucets are dated, need to be reviewed from time to time and there may be ways of doing that other than simply knocking on payouts directly. But in my terrible opinion, resource faucets are much more important in that regard because other than PLEX, I don't think excess ISK dramatically impacts inflation.