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Advanced Audio Settings Changes

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Muon Farstrider
Hidden Flame
The Ancients.
#81 - 2017-05-09 17:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Muon Farstrider
Totally apart from my general bemusement (honestly this decision baffles me), I have one specific pain point with these new settings that is severely hurting my game experience. Namely, this grouping of sounds:

Quote:
Crimewatch -> (UI Sound Level)
Locking -> (UI Sound Level)
[All sorts of other useful UI sounds -> (UI Sound Level)]
UI Click -> (UI Sound Level)

*Please* reconsider this grouping choice. Crimewatch and locking are important, informative sounds that I find desirable to have in order to keep on top of what is happening in my game, and many of the other UI sounds are also useful to have. However, UI click is one of the single most INFURIATINGLY annoying sounds I have ever had the misfortune to encounter in my entire gaming career. Linking these under a single slider is an incredibly experience-breaking choice for me.

Crimewatch and locking are useful. Having an audio cue for locking is very nice given that locking is a combat-critical function whose duration is highly variable. Similarly, instantly knowing when you've just made yourself suspect can be absolutely critical in combat taking place around gate-gun-equipped locations in lowsec. There are also other combat-useful UI sounds (e.g. the standard 'beeeeeep' on engagement) that I am loathe to lose.

As such, I really, really, really do not want to have to disable UI sounds. However, if UI click is folded into this setting I am forced to do so, because I TICK literally TICK can TICK not TICK stand TICK to TICK play TICK the TICK game TICK with TICK that TICK obnoxious TICK sound TICK playing TICK every TICK single TICK time TICK I TICK mouse TICK over TICK an TICK interactable TICK UI TICK element. TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK. (Also, why does an even *louder* version of the same sound spam-play on scrolling? Sheesh.)

Was that sentence hard to read? Good, because that's how I feel when that sound is on - I can't THINK with that noise going off in my ears every half-second. It's like someone's standing behind me and poking my brain with a stick repeatedly; it's a continuous nagging interrupt stream breaking up my thoughts. Trying to deal with that sort of repetitive sound for significant periods of time literally, 100% seriously, causes me mental pain. I would sooner play the game with no sound at all than have to listen to it, and if the game offered me no way to turn it off I would mute my entire computer. Please allow me some way to disable it that does not also disable useful and informative audio elements.

(And while we're at it, can I make the same request for the dscan ping sound? I know a dscan just went off - I'm the one who pushed the button/hit the key! I don't need an annoying sonar ping sound notifying me of it every 10 seconds, and I don't want to have to remove useful UI sounds or hacking/scanning sounds to get rid of it. It wouldn't be so bad if it were a less obnoxious sound, but the one we have is just annoying - it's too loud, too 'big', too distracting.)

Apart from that, I would echo the request for the ambience slider to have more granularity. I don't mind stargate or wormhole sounds, but like many others I find station sounds highly annoying and have them turned off. Perhaps split off 'station ambience' into its own slider?
Felyx Ravencroft
#82 - 2017-05-09 17:16:19 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Please keep responding here with additional input; I'm not at all wanting to quash responses. I am tallying up the requests for included options. UI Click and Third party warp have the most mentions here (at time of drafting this message) with the combined Atmosphere slider coming in next as a pain point.

That said, a lot of people seem be implying that they have to turn off all UI to limit audio for the probe and scanning interface. The Secondary Interfaces slider controls those sounds, and can be reduced without affecting many other UI sounds.

Again, please continue to comment here, I just wanted to make sure people were aware that that feature was linked to that slider.


First off, I am encouraged to see that the discussion is being followed from your end, thank you for that. That being said (yes, here's the other shoe, hehehe - with the ability to hear it drop enabled :P ) - I am a bit disturbed by the implications of tallying up which are the "greatest pain points", because to me that smacks of the intention to choose a few "winners" to reimplement, while the overall new far-from-"advanced" structure remains in place. I think this would be a terrible compromise, because it would make some (presumably most) of a supposed minority happy (but likely only partially), while still inevitably leaving numerous holes.

It seems to me, from the feedback here, that it is UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that the previous, fairly detailed setup worked well. In light of that, a PARTIAL step back toward it would not likely be perceived as anything more than a partial fix, a Band-Aid at best, an ineffectual token gesture at worst. Why not simply roll it back? Seriously, I cannot understand the rationale behind removing a set of additional options that are very useful to some, no matter how many or few, WITHOUT NEGATIVELY IMPACTING ANYONE ELSE. Really, would you folks remove a solar system just because it isn't being used my many people for whatever reason? This makes about as much sense. And people being put off or scared away by a detailed set of OPTIONAL, greyed out audio options? I'm sorry, but at this point I simply have to call bullshit - this notion is simply absurd.

And sorry, but I simply don't buy that business about having the sliders making it harder to maintain. Also, deciding where to classify an effect is difficult? Well, when being coded into the configuration interface, that decision need only be made ONCE. However, EVERY TIME a player wants to emphasise or deemphasise a particular effect, now that player has to figure out which category it may have been included in - and because the categories are few, they are inevitably rather broad, so though most times the answer may be fairly intuitive, much of the time it will not be - and thus, the same decision about "which niche does this sound fit in" has to be made countless times - every time a player needs to make that decision. And of course, after guessing wrong, it's back to the sliders to try find the correct one.

I'll fall back on an old cliched adage: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In fact, I'll take it a step farther: If it ain't broke, for crying out loud, don't break it!

Regards
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#83 - 2017-05-09 17:16:38 UTC
CCP Antiquarian - for the love of the Amarrian God and Bob, announcing this change roughly 24 hours before the patch makes it impossible for the players to have anything meaningful to say to change it. I suspect you have done this more as a courtesy rather than actually wondering if people were ok with it before coding it into the patch.

Give people a week, 10 days notice prior to messing about with things. Otherwise it makes it look like you don't give a aeronautical fornication in the vicinity of the playerbase to what they actually feel.

I also think that its hilarious that you have left in the options for minimized client sounds, because that clearly doesn't need dev time. Seriously though, this was a bad move by CCP. We already lost the jukebox, don't let us lose the options that we had to customise the way the game sounded to us.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#84 - 2017-05-09 17:24:21 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:

Give people a week, 10 days notice prior to messing about with things. Otherwise it makes it look like you don't give a aeronautical fornication in the vicinity of the playerbase to what they actually feel.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was kinda discussed before fanfest, but only after someone found it randomly on SISI.

No real official communication until we started to question the change.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Ralph Shepard
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2017-05-09 17:27:00 UTC
Why the hell did you remove the option to turn off those ******** and annoying UI sounds, for example those when browsing the menu. Thats ********.
Lydia Yggdrasil
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#86 - 2017-05-09 17:28:57 UTC
Great patch today, but It is sad to see the amount of personal preferences getting limited with sound options. Being able to choose sound preferences was a huge pluss to people with multiple characters and to those who don't like some of the ambient sounds. (Being docked etc.)

The player should be able to choose what's best for them, not the other way around.
HyperFlareX
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2017-05-09 17:31:33 UTC
The old system allowed me to pick and choose which sounds were important to me (and, just as important, in which context via profiles). Now? Either I lose the locking sound OR I have to endure the UI click sound (which would lead to my death as I'd rather kill myself than endure that annoying sound OVER and OVER again.)

I guess I could live with the other reductions somewhat in the name of reducing upkeep, but please, please reconsider making the UI click its own setting.
Ralph Shepard
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2017-05-09 17:32:49 UTC
Why was the option for UI sound click removed and merged with UI sound,some of which are not annoying. That makes no sense.

But, after all, what else than BS to expect from you.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#89 - 2017-05-09 17:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
As a content creator I can tell you right now this change is going to impact my recordings and what I can put out so I only have the required items in my videos.

Until the settings are modified as per my previous use cases to allow me to customize my settings to work with the way I play I can't reasonable record fights and expect the audio to come out in a satisfactory way with out having to do alot of trimming to reduce clicking, warp tunnels etc.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#90 - 2017-05-09 17:45:49 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:

Give people a week, 10 days notice prior to messing about with things. Otherwise it makes it look like you don't give a aeronautical fornication in the vicinity of the playerbase to what they actually feel.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it was kinda discussed before fanfest, but only after someone found it randomly on SISI.

No real official communication until we started to question the change.


Still not good enough really. You make a change, you announce it, don't stealth it through until its too late to change it.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#91 - 2017-05-09 17:47:35 UTC
Simple fix: Allow the 'advanced audio settings' option, while maintaining the new 'simplified' audio settings. (We used to have the option to use advanced settings if we wanted, and it appears that a LOT of players used these and were able to set to their own liking.)

It feels like these changes were hidden from the public and only privy to those that spend more time on the forums than those who actually play the game. updates.eveonline did NOT mention this change, not even a link to this thread. I find that a poor move by CCP.

Eve Online game mode: EASY

Whats next? Combine the 'Warp to' and Jump' buttons into a single 'Lemming" button?

Annexe

ITAI - VIP

"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"
Nyjil Lizaru
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2017-05-09 17:52:26 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
G.... Despite that customization, however, only a handful of players ultimately ended up using these customization options. Client settings logging reveals that around 9% of total EVE players are using the Advance Audio Settings menu at all. Of them, only a third (3% of all EVE players) are using each individual slider. A large majority of the 9% are only using one or two sliders in the Audio Customization menu. Some are only using sliders for elements they've disabled via the normal Audio settings.
...


Just because we didn't use it, doesn't mean we disliked it or were confused by it. Granularity is usually considered a good thing in this game, no?

Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law:   "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
Sharps
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2017-05-09 17:53:24 UTC
Felyx Ravencroft wrote:

It seems to me, from the feedback here, that it is UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that the previous, fairly detailed setup worked well. In light of that, a PARTIAL step back toward it would not likely be perceived as anything more than a partial fix, a Band-Aid at best, an ineffectual token gesture at worst. Why not simply roll it back? Seriously, I cannot understand the rationale behind removing a set of additional options that are very useful to some, no matter how many or few, WITHOUT NEGATIVELY IMPACTING ANYONE ELSE.


It is a matter of honor. CCP cannot admit the mistake, they would lose face.
Serra Ammatta
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2017-05-09 17:58:18 UTC
You wanted a system that made it easier for people with multiple clients running and then take it away when only 9% use it. Well here is something to mull your head over.

In a multi client fleet of 13+ Only 1 client needs to have advanced settings. all the other clients don't need sound.I don't need to here 13+ instances of 3rd party warp, but I DO NEED third party warp. I DO NOT need microwarps, mjds,and any other ship sounds.

1 client in 13+.... thats 7.6%. Seems people are using it more than you might think. My active use of advanced settings gets reported as only 1 using the advanced settings when in fact 13+ are.

Sigh. Fix it till its broken.
Valence Benedetto
South of Heaven Ltd
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#95 - 2017-05-09 18:02:34 UTC
To be honest, for my first year or so in EVE I was one of the 91% who never fussed with the advanced sliders. But then I discovered that there was a way I could turn off the loud "station interior" sounds, which are especially obnoxious if you play multiple accounts (and one is docked). I became a fervent member of the 9% that day.

Looking at the way you guys have grouped things, it seems pretty logical. EXCEPT for the one that matters to me, of course. My wanting station interior off on my docked account doesn't mean I don't want any "atmosphere" on my undocked account.

So I think this change puts me back in the 91%. The advanced sliders aren't useful to me anymore, and I'm just going to live with being mildly annoyed at station interior sounds for the rest of my EVE career.
Jotun R
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2017-05-09 18:02:35 UTC
I liked my complex sound mix, why is this so uber simplified?, it's like the audio options of a console game
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#97 - 2017-05-09 18:22:05 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Please keep responding here with additional input; I'm not at all wanting to quash responses. I am tallying up the requests for included options. UI Click and Third party warp have the most mentions here (at time of drafting this message) with the combined Atmosphere slider coming in next as a pain point.

That said, a lot of people seem be implying that they have to turn off all UI to limit audio for the probe and scanning interface. The Secondary Interfaces slider controls those sounds, and can be reduced without affecting many other UI sounds.

Again, please continue to comment here, I just wanted to make sure people were aware that that feature was linked to that slider.


Uhm how about no,
How about revert things so those of us properly using advanced settings have an advanced settings menu.
And those that dont use them or dont care can have your now simpler dumbed downed menu.

How is that hard or difficult to do?
Even my TV has this kind of setup so i can fine tune things if i wish to.


Honestly, it's responses like this that mean they won't even bother looking at it...

Long story short is they're simplifying it... end of.

But we are here to discuss how we can better streamline a simpler version than the old AAS. I'm a massive fan of the old AAS, every single slider was adjusted, but I don't think that's coming back.

So maybe at least try to be constructive? No amount of special snowflaking is going to get this changed. We need to get actual testing and options / potential solutions across; not just moan at CCP indefinitely until they forget about it.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Jysella Halcyon
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2017-05-09 18:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jysella Halcyon
So in order to get a basic feel for how things are grouped and how the different levels interact, I sat outside jita 4-4 for a while playing around with setting and trying to maximize my ability through sounds to be aware of my surroundings.

3rd party warp is super important for this, so I crank up "Jump activation". I also want to later be able to hear gates, so this makes sense. Then someone undocks a Nomad and jumps out, and my ears get blasted by...the first party jump effect? Like I could hear the tunnel sound and everything. Whether that's intended or not, that effect is relatively *way* too loud to live on the same slider.

I then wanted to check gate activation vs warp sounds, so I sat off the perimeter gate, muted everything else and cranked up world, master, and jump activation....and now the warp sounds are completely gone. Thankfully, gate activation doesn't suffer from the "far too loud" problem that cyno jumps do, though.

This is just one slider and grouping the things that are on it has introduced some serious issues.

EDIT: Found it. 3rd party warp is actually controlled by the "Ship Effects" slider.
xXxNIMRODxXx
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#99 - 2017-05-09 19:00:59 UTC
Unnecessary and not requested at all.

Anyway, now everytime I push ESC, it also calls the F11 function.
Tythe Kriton
Tyde8
#100 - 2017-05-09 19:12:58 UTC
Why does the background in the new probe scanner change depending on the window theme you have active???? (general settings > window appearance)

The signature bubbles are hard enough to see now as it is with the without having to change my window appearance to Amarr Brown just to get rid of the painful off blue background the Gallente theme creates.

CCPls, disable this feature on the probe scanner window, the closer to a black background the better for all the players that actually uses the probe scanner.

Also, if you could take the d-scan bong out side and shoot it, that would be appreciated too. I live in wormhole and like most people in WHs use the d-scan every 5-10 seconds. The 'secondary interface' slider lasted all of 5 minutes before I had to set it to zero, which is disappointing because there are a lot of other useful sounds tied to it which I'd rather not lose for the sake of an extremely annoying BONG.