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Pirate Battleships & Absurd Ganker Arguments

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Lucas Lucias
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#381 - 2017-02-28 22:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Lucias
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Aaron wrote:


I'm very much in tune with Eve and I know there are some very angry people out there who want some sort of justice for their staggering losses. God I'd love to gank a ganking fleet somehow just to see their tears in local chat.


If you decided to AG you would soon find out that the gankers don't generally complain about resistance as they accept it as normal and even welcome the interaction. What you WILL find is them mocking you for trying... and failing... to stop them. The reason people don't do what you propose is 1) the gankers are organized and the anti-gankers are generally not, 2) the targets are often ungrateful if not completely AFK and 3) CODE. always wins so frustration is common.

And then there is the general, "won't somebody (else) do something?" attitude of most highsec dwellers. If you want to gank a ganking fleet, nobody is stopping you from trying....


The issue is more to do with playing defence rather than attack, as soon as we started to attack by blowing up freighter wrecks the EHP of freighter wrecks got changed so you had to use a Talos. So much for a leval playing field, if only...

And the speed of that change was just incredible, talk about a direct line to get the mechanics changed in their favour.

Of course you always win when the mechanics that matter always get changed or left as is to favour your side, same with the tank of mining ships, but that bit CCP on the butt, they lost a huge number of casual players over that, biggest screw up in gaming history that one..

Oh what did we get for this EHP wreck change, increased freighter hit points, big deal...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#382 - 2017-02-28 22:54:33 UTC
Lucas Lucias wrote:


The issue is more to do with playing defence rather than attack, as soon as we started to attack by blowing up freighter wrecks the EHP of freighter wrecks got changed so you had to use a Talos. So much for a leval playing field, if only...


That was broken and you know it. Lets not forget that freighters got an EHP buff 10 times stronger too.

Lucas Lucias wrote:

And the speed of that change was just incredible, talk about a direct line to get the mechanics changed in their favour.


Change was asked for and provided for null sec entities who had been complaining about super and titan wrecks getting easily destroyed for years.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#383 - 2017-02-28 23:27:20 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
The OP made a very good point. Hisec is a wasteland because CCP removed the value of being in hisec and now all it really is, is a number of market hubs through some heavily camped pipes.

Aaron you should give up on your hisec idea, there are not enough people interested in doing that, all the new players head straight to null sec with groups like Brave or Pandemic Horde.


You still don't get it Drac. This is my game doing something unconventional is what I enjoy. I find you a very negative player and I am in no way interested in your opinion.

Hope you and the family are well, take care.



No offense Aaron but when you do unconventional things you still have to be good at them.


I think youve been listening to Dracvlad too much...Big smile

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#384 - 2017-02-28 23:46:07 UTC
Bing Bangboom wrote:
Aaron wrote:


I'm very much in tune with Eve and I know there are some very angry people out there who want some sort of justice for their staggering losses. God I'd love to gank a ganking fleet somehow just to see their tears in local chat.


If you decided to AG you would soon find out that the gankers don't generally complain about resistance as they accept it as normal and even welcome the interaction. What you WILL find is them mocking you for trying... and failing... to stop them. The reason people don't do what you propose is 1) the gankers are organized and the anti-gankers are generally not, 2) the targets are often ungrateful if not completely AFK and 3) CODE. always wins so frustration is common.

And then there is the general, "won't somebody (else) do something?" attitude of most highsec dwellers. If you want to gank a ganking fleet, nobody is stopping you from trying....


It sounds like you've given up Bing. Why is it such a crazy idea to do what the gankers do and earn a little bit of isk from it? It seems the only thing missing is organisation.

From my point of view...

1, join up to the blue community and set people blue.
2, Get a frigate.
3, wait for word of an op and join fleet, then go where the FC asks.
4, primary who the fc asks

rinse and repeat steps 2 to 4.




Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Amojin
Doomheim
#385 - 2017-02-28 23:53:29 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
EvE players don't quit because of suicide ganks.

WoW players do that.

Go back to WoW.


Wake up. In Wow, my **** is mine. You wipe me out, and you were smart to do that to a healer. But my gear is still there. When I rez, I run just as fast as I can right the hell back into your faces.

EVE has a hell of a lot more problem in 'rage quits' than Warcraft.

Get over yourselves.
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#386 - 2017-03-01 00:38:33 UTC
Amojin wrote:
...

EVE is about small-gangs, at least in high-sec. They even call it that on the web-pages I go to find fittings and strategies. Small GANGS.

Like ghetto thugs. They flat out say it! My wife grew up in a ghetto like this, and I, visiting that, even though my white community was just as poor, they thought I had something they didn't. Look. Look at what I'm wearing. I helped you move, last year, Omar. You're whining? I borrowed your truck, Nathan, to move my **** several years later when I went to college. Does it look like I'm rich? Stealing your women. Whatever.

None of you wanted her. We ran track in high school together, and fell in love, but don't act all butt-hurt, now. NONE of you wanted her. Nobody stole anything from you.

This just highlights the WRONG way and the RIGHT way. You say there is no RIGHT way to play EVE. By that, you admit that you think there is no WRONG way, either. Being a thug is always the WRONG way, now isn't it?



This, sir, is the point where your credibility flew out the window.
Tenuously linking your scripted, ****-the-bed life drama with people's behaviour in a game is never, ever going to go well for you.
Being a thug in eve is not only fun for some, it's also a great way to defend assets, deny access to an area or entertain for a short time. Within the confines of the game appeals to morality are the lamentation of the defeated.
Within the confines of the game: meaning no rules or mechanics were broken or exploited.
Cheese n rice.




Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Amojin
Doomheim
#387 - 2017-03-01 00:53:28 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
This, sir, is the point where your credibility flew out the window.
Tenuously linking your scripted, ****-the-bed life drama with people's behaviour in a game is never, ever going to go well for you.
Being a thug in eve is not only fun for some, it's also a great way to defend assets, deny access to an area or entertain for a short time. Within the confines of the game appeals to morality are the lamentation of the defeated.
Within the confines of the game: meaning no rules or mechanics were broken or exploited.
Cheese n rice.


Hmm.. I never knew I HAD any credibility, at all, with any of you. That's a new concept. I did, eh?

I didn't claim you broke any rules or violated a mechanic. I just said you were thugs.
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#388 - 2017-03-01 01:36:15 UTC
If you want to discuss anything, or comment on anything, credibility is taken for granted until you say or do something that calls it into question.
Violence would be great fun if it weren't for the fact that some people out there really want to hurt you.
Ruthless, endless, pointless aggression works in EvE primarily because it's just a game, but also due to the liberating facts that there are no civilians, women or children to consider, contenders are immortal and only temporarily destructible, the environment spawns endlessly and cannot be spoiled or rendered uninhabitable.
Thus the most childish interpretations of Nietzsche, Ayn Rand, the Marquis de Sade and Ragnar Redbeard all work in an unfettered indulgent melee of contention that would destroy the real world.

TLDR for livestock: ok, there's thugs in the game, that isn't a problem.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#389 - 2017-03-01 01:40:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:


The issue is more to do with playing defence rather than attack, as soon as we started to attack by blowing up freighter wrecks the EHP of freighter wrecks got changed so you had to use a Talos. So much for a leval playing field, if only...


That was broken and you know it. Lets not forget that freighters got an EHP buff 10 times stronger too.

Lucas Lucias wrote:

And the speed of that change was just incredible, talk about a direct line to get the mechanics changed in their favour.


Change was asked for and provided for null sec entities who had been complaining about super and titan wrecks getting easily destroyed for years.



This is a big part of the problem Baltec, people Dracvlad and co will type their non-sense and omit crucial info in order to give the impression CCP are incompetent. I'm glad youre here to counter his arguments with all of the information so that people who dont know the game can develop a well informed view.

Keep doing what you do Baltec you have my respect. *salutes


Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#390 - 2017-03-01 02:38:44 UTC
Pssst guys, anyone still listening in this thread? I have a secret for you dear reader, once a thread gets past page 6 or so 99% of the quality replies have been made. The only people still in this thread are trying to win some argument or another, and since most of them know internet arguments are unwinnable, they just try to score points instead.

Nothing to see here folks.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Amojin
Doomheim
#391 - 2017-03-01 02:41:13 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Pssst guys, anyone still listening in this thread? I have a secret for you dear reader, once a thread gets past page 6 or so 99% of the quality replies have been made. The only people still in this thread are trying to win some argument or another, and since most of them know internet arguments are unwinnable, they just try to score points instead.

Nothing to see here folks.



Not really. A lot of times I'll walk away for three or four days. So you can think and make your point as strong as you can. And then, I'll be back.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#392 - 2017-03-01 02:45:47 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Not really. A lot of times I'll walk away for three or four days. So you can think and make your point as strong as you can. And then, I'll be back.


Right, but it isn't like the discussion is actually going anywhere. It's just people arguing over things they firmly believe, and aren't going to change.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Amojin
Doomheim
#393 - 2017-03-01 02:51:07 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Amojin wrote:
Not really. A lot of times I'll walk away for three or four days. So you can think and make your point as strong as you can. And then, I'll be back.


Right, but it isn't like the discussion is actually going anywhere. It's just people arguing over things they firmly believe, and aren't going to change.


It does seem to have stalled, yes. Admitting that you are wrong, or that you have needs, is the absolute hardest thing a human can be asked to do.

It won't happen, often. You are probably, only probably, right. It's done.
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#394 - 2017-03-01 03:26:00 UTC
Amojin wrote:
... Admitting that you are wrong, or that you have needs, is the absolute hardest thing a human can be asked to do.
...


Mate, if you think that's true i got some stories that will make your head fall off.
Those stories, like your histrionics, aren't relevant to this thread or the game.
Like i said, calling people names is just salt, begging for the game to be changed is just concentrated salt.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Amojin
Doomheim
#395 - 2017-03-01 03:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Amojin wrote:
... Admitting that you are wrong, or that you have needs, is the absolute hardest thing a human can be asked to do.
...


Mate, if you think that's true i got some stories that will make your head fall off.
Those stories, like your histrionics, aren't relevant to this thread or the game.
Like i said, calling people names is just salt, begging for the game to be changed is just concentrated salt.



Asking for a change to the game has zero negative consequences. They will either do it, or they won't.

If they do, you are better off, if you asked for a change that actually helps you. If they don't change it, then you stay where you are.

That being the case, the logical thing to do is ask for everything you want.
Cade Windstalker
#396 - 2017-03-01 03:51:05 UTC
Amojin wrote:
I have no doubt, Cade. Discrimination, also means, simply, to make a choice.

If I say I like Chocolate Ice Cream, and I hate Strawberry, I made a discrimination. A choice. The dictionary backs this up, but we all know good and damned well that the CONNOTATIONS apply, and color the facts. Today, discrimination means to make an unfair choice, a biased, hateful choice. It means this, even though it's not defined as this.

Gang is one of those words. There are a lot of words that people hide behind, 'oh, but it just means...'

Yeah. It just means... Ok.


Yes, but that wasn't the way you used the word there and you know it. So, you were either being intentionally obtuse then or you're doing so now.

In this case "small gang" literally just means a small group and is used synonymously with it.

Amojin wrote:
I have been mocked for my MUSH background, calling things meta-gaming that folks, today, just don't see as meta-gaming. Basically, in effect, what I am told, on these forums is that people don't play a character. They are not being dicks, as a role.

They just ARE dicks. That being the case, the only reason people don't do in real life, what they do here, if we are talking about this group, is that they are too cowardly to face the real life consequences. This game is a healthy outlet for them.


You weren't mocked for your MUSH background, you were mocked for declaring that you feel Eve is a bad game for not adhering to your odd standards for it and for making suggestions that would try to force Eve to be something it's not, all in the name of a Lore that does not in fact match the actual in-game Lore. It's all just something you've concocted in your head because it makes sense to you.

You're also over generalizing, taking things out of context, and being intentionally obtuse as it suits you.

Some people are, almost certainly, massive arseholes in real life and in Eve. Others are only one or the other, for a variety of reasons that are too long to list here and that you almost certainly don't seriously care to hear.

Amojin wrote:
Jagd Wilde wrote:
If you can't remove your RL sympathies from the game, then we have the right to deride and mock you. We do this because we realize that it is a game, and if you judge someone RL on what RP they enjoy, then you have already lost.

You haven't quit yet because you just can't see it. Yet.

:)


Thanks.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6838279#post6838279

'If I were to speculate about others I would say that some people very much treat the forums as an extension of the game ' -- Cade

I get to use Cade as an example. I relish that opportunity being made available.


Kind of a bad example there though, what I said supports his point, not yours. Someone acting the same on the forums as in the game would, in fact, be a form of RP. If they want to RP a piratical ******** then that's their call.

Amojin wrote:
Asking for a change to the game has zero negative consequences. They will either do it, or they won't.

If they do, you are better off, if you asked for a change that actually helps you. If they don't change it, then you stay where you are.

That being the case, the logical thing to do is ask for everything you want.


The logical thing to do is consider whether or not what you're asking for has a snowball's chance in a fusion reactor of ever happening, and whether or not it would adversely affect others' enjoyment of the game before posting, because otherwise you're just wasting your own time.

Unless of course one has other reasons for posting, or is deriving some kind of perverse satisfaction from a sense of superiority over those who disagree with them. Roll
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#397 - 2017-03-01 03:52:58 UTC
Pretty selfish there, insisting on a change that rules out other playing styles and fosters disengaged ones on the basis of morality is beyond flawed. Claiming that morality should be enforced to save the game from ragequits or whatever threat is dissembling.
Logic isn't a blunt instrument, selfish logic hasn't made anything happen until it's drained all the life out of everything around it.
Read the hundreds of similar threads, they all propose an interaction free farming simulator with a space themed background.
Not gonna happen.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Amojin
Doomheim
#398 - 2017-03-01 03:57:00 UTC
Cade, just be happy for once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCEiF0_2pmE

Wasn't that nice? No gangsta ****, no discrimination, no saggy prison **** pants, and a hell of a performance.

Now, back to reality - you assume too much. You both assume that I am more intelligent than I am, and assume that I am a fool, all at once.

Which is it? How many times have I backtracked when I was wrong? BUT, you have to SHOW me that I'm wrong, before I do it.

This seems, to me, reasonable.
Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#399 - 2017-03-01 04:13:15 UTC
So the thread really is all about you.
OK i'm out.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Amojin
Doomheim
#400 - 2017-03-01 04:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Chopper Rollins wrote:
So the thread really is all about you.
OK i'm out.





Yeah, it's all about me. (Edit: I suppose I should add some fake metatags... (/Sarcasm)

I didn't make it, and I didn't ask Cade to attack me. He's just guaranteed to do that. I'm glad you're out, though. You seem to have a problem with facts.