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Pirate Battleships & Absurd Ganker Arguments

First post
Author
Amojin
Doomheim
#361 - 2017-02-28 19:17:47 UTC
Lucas Lucias wrote:
I would not be mad at you, as far as I am concerned there is no right way to play Eve no matter what people in this game try to say, you play it to rock your own boat and that is fine. You have perfectly valid reasons for not staying too, thanks for giving it a try and I wish you all the best.


That's kind of the problem, isn't it? If you really believe there is no right way to play EVE, then it follows that there is no wrong way, either, doesn't' it?

EVE is about small-gangs, at least in high-sec. They even call it that on the web-pages I go to find fittings and strategies. Small GANGS.

Like ghetto thugs. They flat out say it! My wife grew up in a ghetto like this, and I, visiting that, even though my white community was just as poor, they thought I had something they didn't. Look. Look at what I'm wearing. I helped you move, last year, Omar. You're whining? I borrowed your truck, Nathan, to move my **** several years later when I went to college. Does it look like I'm rich? Stealing your women. Whatever.

None of you wanted her. We ran track in high school together, and fell in love, but don't act all butt-hurt, now. NONE of you wanted her. Nobody stole anything from you.

This just highlights the WRONG way and the RIGHT way. You say there is no RIGHT way to play EVE. By that, you admit that you think there is no WRONG way, either. Being a thug is always the WRONG way, now isn't it?
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#362 - 2017-02-28 19:40:44 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
I would not be mad at you, as far as I am concerned there is no right way to play Eve no matter what people in this game try to say, you play it to rock your own boat and that is fine. You have perfectly valid reasons for not staying too, thanks for giving it a try and I wish you all the best.


That's kind of the problem, isn't it? If you really believe there is no right way to play EVE, then it follows that there is no wrong way, either, doesn't' it?

EVE is about small-gangs, at least in high-sec. They even call it that on the web-pages I go to find fittings and strategies. Small GANGS.

Like ghetto thugs. They flat out say it! My wife grew up in a ghetto like this, and I, visiting that, even though my white community was just as poor, they thought I had something they didn't. Look. Look at what I'm wearing. I helped you move, last year, Omar. You're whining? I borrowed your truck, Nathan, to move my **** several years later when I went to college. Does it look like I'm rich? Stealing your women. Whatever.

None of you wanted her. We ran track in high school together, and fell in love, but don't act all butt-hurt, now. NONE of you wanted her. Nobody stole anything from you.

This just highlights the WRONG way and the RIGHT way. You say there is no RIGHT way to play EVE. By that, you admit that you think there is no WRONG way, either. Being a thug is always the WRONG way, now isn't it?


I actually try to play the game with respect towards others, because I prefer it that way, but I do not judge people who play the game more aggressively, but I do not respect those who go out their way to gather tears and I think that is over the top. I have not shot industrial's jumping gates in lowsec and in null sec if I see people running data or relic sites I have no interest in doing outside of my alliances space I let them get on with it. BUt you can be a thug in this game and you can be a good guy in this game too.
Amojin
Doomheim
#363 - 2017-02-28 19:47:13 UTC
Lucas Lucias wrote:
BUt you can be a thug in this game and you can be a good guy in this game too.


That's true. You can do whatever you want to do. It's called free will, and it exists. People have often bitched at me for drawing real life parallels to this game. You just did that, too, as have most of the people that have whined at me. You expect to be treated in a certian manner, even in game, because of society and it's values.

What I said about the Sith being completely correct, in another thread, within the context of their canon environment? Nobody is going to balk at that, in context, but let that same drive and morality appear, here?

They'll complain. As far as it relates to eve, people are going to be the same, evil thugs they have always been, sans a few who actually have the guts to say, no.

I have a hard time understanding people who want to STOP ganking. I don't want to STOP you from ganking. I just want my rights to field a hell of a tank, protect my own, and make you wish you were never born.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#364 - 2017-02-28 19:57:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec?


He didn't actually do that, but it doesn't matter.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#365 - 2017-02-28 20:02:39 UTC
So this is an entirely pointless thread since the forums are part of the meta gaming and any balance issue is construed as salt, and in the cases where it is not, CCP took 20 months(?) to nerf the Svipul when it was clearly broken.

The real issue is how easy it is to gank and the apparent difficulty in countering it.
Cade Windstalker
#366 - 2017-02-28 20:17:13 UTC
Amojin wrote:
That's kind of the problem, isn't it? If you really believe there is no right way to play EVE, then it follows that there is no wrong way, either, doesn't' it?

EVE is about small-gangs, at least in high-sec. They even call it that on the web-pages I go to find fittings and strategies. Small GANGS.

Like ghetto thugs. They flat out say it! My wife grew up in a ghetto like this, and I, visiting that, even though my white community was just as poor, they thought I had something they didn't. Look. Look at what I'm wearing. I helped you move, last year, Omar. You're whining? I borrowed your truck, Nathan, to move my **** several years later when I went to college. Does it look like I'm rich? Stealing your women. Whatever.

None of you wanted her. We ran track in high school together, and fell in love, but don't act all butt-hurt, now. NONE of you wanted her. Nobody stole anything from you.

This just highlights the WRONG way and the RIGHT way. You say there is no RIGHT way to play EVE. By that, you admit that you think there is no WRONG way, either. Being a thug is always the WRONG way, now isn't it?


Lol, "small gangs" is a piece of terminology the players created. CCP simply adopted it because it's what their players were using it to describe a style of play. You are reading *waaaaay* too much into that, and apparently using that to project IRL issues onto this game.

Also, fun fact, "gang" originally referred to travel, then was taken to mean a group of workmen (generally on a sailing vessel), then a group of people traveling together, and then only later gained the negative connotations it generally sees today, but it does still preserve some of the old usage. For example a group in school might be "James and his gang" without any of the criminal connotations, it's just referring to the group of people who follow James around.
Amojin
Doomheim
#367 - 2017-02-28 20:23:13 UTC
I have no doubt, Cade. Discrimination, also means, simply, to make a choice.

If I say I like Chocolate Ice Cream, and I hate Strawberry, I made a discrimination. A choice. The dictionary backs this up, but we all know good and damned well that the CONNOTATIONS apply, and color the facts. Today, discrimination means to make an unfair choice, a biased, hateful choice. It means this, even though it's not defined as this.

Gang is one of those words. There are a lot of words that people hide behind, 'oh, but it just means...'

Yeah. It just means... Ok.
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#368 - 2017-02-28 20:30:04 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
BUt you can be a thug in this game and you can be a good guy in this game too.


That's true. You can do whatever you want to do. It's called free will, and it exists. People have often bitched at me for drawing real life parallels to this game. You just did that, too, as have most of the people that have whined at me. You expect to be treated in a certian manner, even in game, because of society and it's values.

What I said about the Sith being completely correct, in another thread, within the context of their canon environment? Nobody is going to balk at that, in context, but let that same drive and morality appear, here?

They'll complain. As far as it relates to eve, people are going to be the same, evil thugs they have always been, sans a few who actually have the guts to say, no.

I have a hard time understanding people who want to STOP ganking. I don't want to STOP you from ganking. I just want my rights to field a hell of a tank, protect my own, and make you wish you were never born.


No I don't expect anything from anyone else, I expect myself to act a certain way. I recognise that this game is hard and there are some people who play really nasty, some might be nasty in real life, I don't know and I don't care, I treat this game as if every player I meet is a big bad boss who wants to rub my nose in it.

I never wanted to stop ganking, I have only ever agitated for better balance, but for them better balance means stopping ganking, this is part of their game, after all easy kills makes some people feel better. And your comment about being able to field a hell of a tank and be difficult to kill and be a hard person to catch is exactly how I play this game.

On the forums you will find some people who want to get at you to drive you out of the game, they don't bother me at all.

Ok there may be some bad people playing this game, but I don't make the assumption that people who play this game as bad in teh sense of blowing up anything that moves are actually bad in real life.

Relax, this game is a challenge, the fun part is treating it that way and if you can do well then you have won Eve...
Amojin
Doomheim
#369 - 2017-02-28 20:40:17 UTC
Lucas Lucias wrote:
Ok there may be some bad people playing this game, but I don't make the assumption that people who play this game as bad in teh sense of blowing up anything that moves are actually bad in real life.

Relax, this game is a challenge, the fun part is treating it that way and if you can do well then you have won Eve...



I have been mocked for my MUSH background, calling things meta-gaming that folks, today, just don't see as meta-gaming. Basically, in effect, what I am told, on these forums is that people don't play a character. They are not being dicks, as a role.

They just ARE dicks. That being the case, the only reason people don't do in real life, what they do here, if we are talking about this group, is that they are too cowardly to face the real life consequences. This game is a healthy outlet for them.

But at the same time, don't expect me or anyone else to be happy about your thug-life choices. It's like BLM whining about a dude who beats the hell out of an asian half his size to steal a cigarello. I won't even honor him by mentioning his name, but at the same time, Tamir Rice is forgotten after two weeks.

Seriously? Dude, two white cops rode up in a car, and body armor, and killed a 12 year old kid, in 7 seconds flat. It's on video. I don't need a batch of thugs that, hell, honestly the cops were right to kill, since they attacked the cops!

This is a slam dunk case, right there, all by itself. You're gonna have to pry me off this ****, but BLM just gave it up. People are weird, and illogical. Same thing with your game. The people doing these things in the game, at least in many cases, would do it to you in real life, too, if they could.
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#370 - 2017-02-28 20:55:34 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
Ok there may be some bad people playing this game, but I don't make the assumption that people who play this game as bad in teh sense of blowing up anything that moves are actually bad in real life.

Relax, this game is a challenge, the fun part is treating it that way and if you can do well then you have won Eve...



I have been mocked for my MUSH background, calling things meta-gaming that folks, today, just don't see as meta-gaming. Basically, in effect, what I am told, on these forums is that people don't play a character. They are not being dicks, as a role.

They just ARE dicks. That being the case, the only reason people don't do in real life, what they do here, if we are talking about this group, is that they are too cowardly to face the real life consequences. This game is a healthy outlet for them.

But at the same time, don't expect me or anyone else to be happy about your thug-life choices. It's like BLM whining about a dude who beats the hell out of an asian half his size to steal a cigarello. I won't even honor him by mentioning his name, but at the same time, Tamir Rice is forgotten after two weeks.

Seriously? Dude, two white cops rode up in a car, and body armor, and killed a 12 year old kid, in 7 seconds flat. It's on video. I don't need a batch of thugs that, hell, honestly the cops were right to kill, since they attacked the cops!

This is a slam dunk case, right there, all by itself. You're gonna have to pry me off this ****, but BLM just gave it up. People are weird, and illogical. Same thing with your game. The people doing these things in the game, at least in many cases, would do it to you in real life, too, if they could.


Well this character is -2.7 security status, he ganked the scouts who were scanning ships for gankers, some people say that I am a ganker, some don't. One time me and some AG players repped up a guy who was in a DST auto-piloting from Jita to Amarr, we repped him up as he was in low structure to perfect health and made sure he got there. Why did I do that, well he deserved to lose his ship and his cargo, but I and the others with me did it because we did not want the gankers to get his stuff even though he was not protecting his own stuff. Later on I was asking what freighters were being bumped and if it was a Charon and it had cargo expanders I left it to its fate.

I play this game because it is weighted in the favour of gankers and old players with tons of resources and high SP and that I do well in it and hardly die and do quite well in fights is what makes me happy, I get a kick out of being not the normal easy prey. Perhaps I am a bit of a masochist, I have no idea, but I think it is more to do with a challenge and that is the way to approach Eve.

I would advise you to keep off of real life stuff, it will get removed.
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#371 - 2017-02-28 20:57:19 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
So this is an entirely pointless thread since the forums are part of the meta gaming and any balance issue is construed as salt, and in the cases where it is not, CCP took 20 months(?) to nerf the Svipul when it was clearly broken.

The real issue is how easy it is to gank and the apparent difficulty in countering it.


This I totally agree with, great post.
Amojin
Doomheim
#372 - 2017-02-28 21:01:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Lucas Lucias wrote:
Ok there may be some bad people playing this game, but I don't make the assumption that peopI would advise you to keep off of real life stuff, it will get removed.


I doubt it. CCP has made it their claim that the new forums are going to be very, very much less intensive of rules, and more open discussion. I think they tire of playing PC-cops. Can't blame them.

So far, I've seen a few topics locked, not removed. I do tend to speak my mind, but I'm not actually abusing any of you with a non-stop stream of insane cursing.

I believe that we can disagree. We can do that, and we can do it, politely. We can discuss things, and have differences of opinion, and at the end of the day, walk away without hating each other.

I believe that's possible. This game is played in real life. The game, is not this forum. You are not talking to 'Amojin,' the Gallente capsuleer, here. You're talking to the human being behind the toon.

I believe we can communicate, and even if we disagree with each other, we can do it rationally. I don't need a baby-sitter. Do you?
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#373 - 2017-02-28 21:03:01 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:
So this is an entirely pointless thread since the forums are part of the meta gaming and any balance issue is construed as salt, and in the cases where it is not, CCP took 20 months(?) to nerf the Svipul when it was clearly broken.

The real issue is how easy it is to gank and the apparent difficulty in countering it.


Hmmm, difficulty in countering a gank huh. I can think of some ways to counter a gank. it depends on perspective.

My perspective is that if a reasonably organised blue community can realise the potential of working together then things can be achieved.

Yes the gankers have found a window of opportunity within ccp game mechanic thats all they have done nothing more. the only real advantage they have is that they work together in a uniformed fashion. The hi sec community outnumber the gankers, so, all we need to do is get organised formulate a plan and execute it.

Why can't we organise and gank their stealth bombers while they are waiting for a freighter to come along? we could potentially earn approx 5 to 10 million in whats dropped as loot per ganker. We can also find out what loot ship they use and gank it using their own tactics.

I'll never accept that there is no counter to ganking. The only issue is the way people think. many of us have fallen into a belief system in Eve and are totally terrified of doing anything outside of the box.

I'm very much in tune with Eve and I know there are some very angry people out there who want some sort of justice for their staggering losses. God I'd love to gank a ganking fleet somehow just to see their tears in local chat.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Jagd Wilde
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#374 - 2017-02-28 21:11:01 UTC
If you can't remove your RL sympathies from the game, then we have the right to deride and mock you. We do this because we realize that it is a game, and if you judge someone RL on what RP they enjoy, then you have already lost.

You haven't quit yet because you just can't see it. Yet.

:)

Every alt I own has a red safety, this has brought my friends much laughter.

Amojin
Doomheim
#375 - 2017-02-28 21:16:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Amojin
Jagd Wilde wrote:
If you can't remove your RL sympathies from the game, then we have the right to deride and mock you. We do this because we realize that it is a game, and if you judge someone RL on what RP they enjoy, then you have already lost.

You haven't quit yet because you just can't see it. Yet.

:)


Thanks.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6838279#post6838279

'If I were to speculate about others I would say that some people very much treat the forums as an extension of the game ' -- Cade

I get to use Cade as an example. I relish that opportunity being made available.
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#376 - 2017-02-28 21:38:29 UTC
Amojin wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
Ok there may be some bad people playing this game, but I don't make the assumption that peopI would advise you to keep off of real life stuff, it will get removed.


I doubt it. CCP has made it their claim that the new forums are going to be very, very much less intensive of rules, and more open discussion. I think they tire of playing PC-cops. Can't blame them.

So far, I've seen a few topics locked, not removed. I do tend to speak my mind, but I'm not actually abusing any of you with a non-stop stream of insane cursing.

I believe that we can disagree. We can do that, and we can do it, politely. We can discuss things, and have differences of opinion, and at the end of the day, walk away without hating each other.

I believe that's possible. This game is played in real life. The game, is not this forum. You are not talking to 'Amojin,' the Gallente capsuleer, here. You're talking to the human being behind the toon.

I believe we can communicate, and even if we disagree with each other, we can do it rationally. I don't need a baby-sitter. Do you?


I don't need baby sitting, I believe in freedom of expression, fire away, but saying that this forum is moderated is not the same as saying I agree with such moderation. I am talking to the player behind the character, that is evident, nice to have an exchange of views with you on Eve.
Lucas Lucias
Combined Tactical Solutions PLC
Astral Battles
#377 - 2017-02-28 21:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Lucias
Amojin wrote:
I have no doubt, Cade. Discrimination, also means, simply, to make a choice.

If I say I like Chocolate Ice Cream, and I hate Strawberry, I made a discrimination. A choice. The dictionary backs this up, but we all know good and damned well that the CONNOTATIONS apply, and color the facts. Today, discrimination means to make an unfair choice, a biased, hateful choice. It means this, even though it's not defined as this.

Gang is one of those words. There are a lot of words that people hide behind, 'oh, but it just means...'

Yeah. It just means... Ok.


I liked your post because I can discriminate over fine wine and I do, often. At some point based on the the way it is going I will be hauled off to jail for that. Shocked

Gang can be used as work gang or James and his gang, but can be used as gang as in hoodlums or thugs. I could equally use gaggle, but in any case the way it is used in Eve is a small number of players ganging together, it is not a small fleet, but could be, but I don't want to get too tied up on how many is what, I would say it is a fairly loose term that means different things to different people.

PS I would like to see a Armour mining ship too Big smile
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#378 - 2017-02-28 21:55:45 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Lucas Lucias wrote:
The OP made a very good point. Hisec is a wasteland because CCP removed the value of being in hisec and now all it really is, is a number of market hubs through some heavily camped pipes.

Aaron you should give up on your hisec idea, there are not enough people interested in doing that, all the new players head straight to null sec with groups like Brave or Pandemic Horde.


You still don't get it Drac. This is my game doing something unconventional is what I enjoy. I find you a very negative player and I am in no way interested in your opinion.

Hope you and the family are well, take care.



No offense Aaron but when you do unconventional things you still have to be good at them.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#379 - 2017-02-28 22:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Herzog, I hope you are well, perhaps if Aaron actually tried it he would get past the theory into actual practice and it would open his eyes a bit, but part of the fun is to try and he is good at trying at least Big smile But he has not even tried yet...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#380 - 2017-02-28 22:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bing Bangboom
Aaron wrote:


I'm very much in tune with Eve and I know there are some very angry people out there who want some sort of justice for their staggering losses. God I'd love to gank a ganking fleet somehow just to see their tears in local chat.


If you decided to AG you would soon find out that the gankers don't generally complain about resistance as they accept it as normal and even welcome the interaction. What you WILL find is them mocking you for trying... and failing... to stop them. The reason people don't do what you propose is 1) the gankers are organized and the anti-gankers are generally not, 2) the targets are often ungrateful if not completely AFK and 3) CODE. always wins so frustration is common.

And then there is the general, "won't somebody (else) do something?" attitude of most highsec dwellers. If you want to gank a ganking fleet, nobody is stopping you from trying....

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com