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Pirate Battleships & Absurd Ganker Arguments

First post
Author
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-02-22 17:43:53 UTC
Here's the argument, this was posted in the Assembly Hall.
Black Pedro wrote:


Highsec has been unsafe for almost 13 years and the game has not ground to a halt. If anything, the game grew faster at times when highsec was less safe earlier in Eve's history. Suicide ganking (and other conflict) facilitates the competition that gives things value in this game. It makes the game much more interesting by meaning the players that min/max production most efficiently don't always win - defending your stuff is a concern which you as a producer/industrialist have to balance against pure yield. This conflict literally prevents the economy from being driven into the ground by overproduction and gives our virtual assets meaning.

For years Gankers have been spewing out this argument, and apparently for just as long people and players have been daunted by it, no doubt, because they have been unable to gather information to contradict it. CCP won't release the numbers of people who quit after being Suicide ganked. Or the numbers of people who cite having been Suicide ganked as the reason they are quitting. So, the Suicide Gankers have been having a field day mystifying everyone who complains on the forums with their absolutely absurd arguments.

When I first bought my first Pirate Battleship it cost over 1 Billion Isk. The Machariel was awesome! Well worth the price. However, almost immediately after buying my first pirate BS the price of them began to drop, and has been dropping steadily ever since. Right now, the pirate battleships are selling for just over 300mil isk. And if this trend continues the price of a Pirate Battleship will drop to below the price of a T1 Battleship! Clearly, the Pirate Battleship are being over-produced and the price of them is being driven into the ground.

At the same time, the price of T1 Battleship has risen slowly and the price of Maruaders has held steady at well over 1 Billion ISK.

It is the price of Pirate Battleship that proves the absurdity of the ganker argument, that ganking maintains the value of items in the game! Ganking doesn't maintain anything! Ganking drives away players and has NO benefit for the game whatsoever!

And the reason why the price of Pirate Battleship is going down is because they are being OVER-PRODUCED in Low and Null Sec! Because it is in Low Sec and Null Sec where there is NO competition! Low Sec and Null Sec players are greedily, voraciously farming LP with the pirate factions then turning that LP into Pirate ships which they are literally flooding the market with. I bet they don't even notice the steady drop in price!!!

Why aren't the shining, holy Gankers riding to the rescue of the market and Ganking the corps and players that are farming pirate LP and protecting the market from being driven into the ground which is the righteous, holy quest of the Gankers???

Because ... you're ... full ... of ... ......!!!

The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!

Trying to justify taking other kids' lunch-money by saying its good for the school economy!

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-02-22 17:48:22 UTC
* overheating popcorns *
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3 - 2017-02-22 17:57:03 UTC
IB4L?

A real good example here of someone seeing only what they want, and confusing facts.

He mentions LP for pirate battleships. Not one mention of the fact that CCP increased the escalation chances for anomalies (which means more escalations, which means more pirate battleship BPCs).

And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.

I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec?
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#4 - 2017-02-22 17:59:00 UTC
This thread wont end well.Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Krin Dessat
Far Runner
#5 - 2017-02-22 18:08:26 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
* overheating popcorns *


Dont forget the nanite paste topping
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-02-22 18:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Spenser for Hire
Jenn aSide wrote:
IB4L?



I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec?

Shouldn't you be asking that of the Suicide Gankers who claim that Suicide Ganking protects the market from being driven into the ground???

How Batshit crazy do you have to be to NOT understand that???

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!

Krin Dessat
Far Runner
#7 - 2017-02-22 18:20:48 UTC
Methinks someone is taking this game waaaaaayyyyy too seriously

Regardless of reasons (or lack thereof) - gankers will do what gankers will do. They have fun doing it and It is a profitable way of playing.

I carebear as much as the next guy (is that a verb?) but honestly, if HS was actually safe, I'd quit out of sheer boredom.

Take a deep breath OP, maybe take a step back and stop focusing on what you perceive as negative. Focus on the positive.
Maybe actually talk (politely) to a few gankers - some are quite friendly. It may provide you with new insights

My 0.02 ISK
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-02-22 18:23:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.

Also, Material wise, Pirate Battleship require less materials to produce that a T1 Battleship!
Therefore, the Price of a Pirate Battleship CAN fall to below the price of a T1 Battleship!

Who displays Ignorance???

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
#9 - 2017-02-22 19:06:49 UTC
In before the gankers?! Arrrggghh... damn... too late Lol

So are rattlers 300 mill now? *pulls out the wallet*
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2017-02-22 19:11:53 UTC
Spenser for Hire wrote:
Why aren't the shining, holy Gankers riding to the rescue of the market and Ganking the corps and players that are farming pirate LP and protecting the market from being driven into the ground which is the righteous, holy quest of the Gankers?


Because gankers haven't taken a vow to protect the market. They gank people because it's both fun and profitable.

Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#11 - 2017-02-22 19:23:14 UTC
I, for one, welcome faction BSs costing less than T1. suh-weet! market factors schmarket factors


Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2017-02-22 19:24:56 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that.


I can't find the original source on this, but wasn't it that players who get a ship blown up by another player are generally more likely to stay subbed? I don't believe the comment differentiated between the newbie who ventures into Low and gets popped and then has their mistake explained from the people who, for whatever reason, get randomly ganked in High Sec.

That said, yeah OP's whole argument is pretty bad...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#13 - 2017-02-22 19:37:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
IB4L?

A real good example here of someone seeing only what they want, and confusing facts.

He mentions LP for pirate battleships. Not one mention of the fact that CCP increased the escalation chances for anomalies (which means more escalations, which means more pirate battleship BPCs).

And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.

I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec?

nice coherent responds to a post that I was left saying "wait what!?" to

the only thing I can really think of is isk/ehp ratios that mission runners and haulers, and not gankers, came up with to hopefully fly under the gankers radar. Or maybe something about production vs destruction, which according to the last econ blog we were producing far more than we were destroying, but I'm pretty sure that has been mostly true for a long time now.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Keno Skir
#14 - 2017-02-22 19:39:50 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that.


I can't find the original source on this, but wasn't it that players who get a ship blown up by another player are generally more likely to stay subbed? I don't believe the comment differentiated between the newbie who ventures into Low and gets popped and then has their mistake explained from the people who, for whatever reason, get randomly ganked in High Sec.

That said, yeah OP's whole argument is pretty bad...


Though i'm hazy as well, i actually think they did differentiate with regard to the statistic about ganking retain rates.

OP : Hardy har har har your lack of understanding is so deep you're lost in it. Try asking in local for an exit Pirate
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2017-02-22 20:24:56 UTC
Is this about the three Incursion-fit blinged Vindicators that got ganked on acceleration gates? Because that was due to the Incursion FC being a total d*ck with respect to a contest payout on his Twitch live stream.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Demolishar
United Aggression
#16 - 2017-02-22 20:36:19 UTC
You only have to provide a role-play or objective-based explanation to justify your griefing to avoid getting banned for harassment.
Noone said it had to be a GOOD explanation.
Torin Corax
Game of Roams
#17 - 2017-02-22 20:49:41 UTC
So, does the Op want people to suicide-gank more Machariels then?

I'm sure that could be arranged.



Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2017-02-22 21:10:06 UTC
Torin Corax wrote:
So, does the Op want people to suicide-gank more Machariels then?

I'm sure that could be arranged.




Indeed. Since Ganking protects the value of ships, let's see the righteous Suicide Gankers work their market magic and gank the Machariel back to above 1 Billion isk.

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#19 - 2017-02-22 21:26:19 UTC
EvE players don't quit because of suicide ganks.

WoW players do that.

Go back to WoW.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#20 - 2017-02-22 21:29:22 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
You only have to provide a role-play or objective-based explanation to justify your griefing to avoid getting banned for harassment.
Noone said it had to be a GOOD explanation.


Contrary to popular belief, this is not true. You don't need a role-play or objective-based explanation to gank.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

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