EVE General Discussion

They can't because, and I'm giving them some credit here, they know they'll run face first into Malcanis' Law, and his more generalized principle. Trying to make design decisions based on some subset of players will ultimately be open to abuse by older and more experienced/wealthier players.

So instead they insult, snipe, and offer nothing concrete.

They are, in a word, useless.

Lets not go there again, here, nor into the esoterics of spontaneous order.

Malcani's Law can be used as a support for an argument, not as an argument in and of itself.

I am prepared to debate the validity of Malcanis' Law in a dedicated thread, but what is important here, as I said above, is something concrete, like a list of proposed changes.

As I noted, Hakawai has, literally, nothing to offer except a general gripe.

Hukawai i have a very simple question that could solve this without the need for all this back and forth. If someone made a video about how to get past gate camps, with lots of examples of different gate camps being avoided / broken through using different methods, would you then agree that they are a matter of skill and not 100% meat grinders? Would you also agree that with education a new player can employ several methods should they so choose?

EDIT - Nobody said you'd avoid ANY gate camp. But they can be avoided / broken through to the point they aren't a show stopping concern.

At the risk of being accused of going off topic on a subtext I'd like to address the following:
That ridiculous "bistromath" is based on years of collective knowledge and experience, and was in reply to the following somewhat overblown post by yourself, thus it's not irrelevant at all.

A newbie is very unlikely to have 5 billion to put in an industrial, 200 million is a little more likely but still very dubious.

The economic threshold for the profitability of a suicide gank is determined by how much the ganker stands to make vs how much the ganker stands to lose; which in turn is determined by the choices the would-be target makes, choices such as the ship and fit the target chooses to use, how much value the target chooses to haul, whether the target chooses to fly with friends or not, whether they choose to fly afk or atk etc.

Eve is a universe where choices have consequences, if people make stupid choices then others will take advantage of them and provide consequences for making those choices.

That's the thing isn't it? It's almost never actually about "new players". It's about older players who did something stupid, got killed , and then ran to the forums to complain about it. only they know their complaint will be rejected out of hand because they should have known better, so they use "new players" as a more acceptable stand in.

"I'm not concerned about me per se, but I wonder how this will affect the youth!".

Samuel L Jackson voice:

"I tired of no one thinking of the mother ******* children on the mother ******* plane. And **** snakes too!"

/Samuel L. Jackson voice

That would just feed people kills you know.

So, wormholes?

You have not one shred of evidence that people are driven from the game by gate camps.

And even if you did, then what? Should CCP somehow make changes to EVE Online because some human beings over the age of 13 (EVE is rated 13 and up) can't deal with minor inconveniences in a video game ?

Like I said, if you care about 'new players' do 2 things, teach them and tell them to ask themselves if they truthfully believe that they have the mental disposition needed to enjoy and thrive in EVE Online. Because if they don't have that, no amount of nerfing people you don't like (gate campers) is going to help them.

In fact, trying to 'legislate away" gate campers with development changes would follow the same stupid script as the past. People whined about other people before, like "gankers". They pleaded with CCP for help rather than learning to outplay the gankers. CCP did so with EHP buffs to some ships and anchor rigs and buffing CONCORD and new rules etc.

The end result? Ganking got worse and spread to affect more people. Turns out that nerfing someone's playstyle in order to help hapless people who already had all the tools they needed to help themselves only serves to tick off and embolden the group that got 'nerfed'. You think "gate campers" will just say "whelp CCP nerfed us, i guess Ill go away now.

No they won't they will examine the game mechanics and find ways to keep doing what they are doing, just more so.




You may ask why I care, I don't gate camp and don't have a real horse in the fight. Well , let me tell you Hakawa. I find it irritating in a way i can't really describe to see the same BS happen over and over again. It annoys me in game and in real life that people (the supposed top of the food chain) just can't learn simple lessons.

I can't talk about real life stuff here because of the forum rules, luckily there are mroe than enough in game examples. One example was Dominion Sov which CCP claimed would "open up null to smaller groups" . The null haters rejoiced , thinking CCP was about to "fix null" and "break the power of the big coalitions. What actually happened is that those groups got stronger and null turned in to Renter-stan. Goons spent SIX YEARS punishing the game for CCP's mistake.

Or like the safety buffs I mention, before all that all you had to worry about were some bored Goons ganking in high sec or burning jita from time to time, but CCPs safety buffs CREATED CODE in the same way that [insert real life situation where invading people in the name of freedom creates a worse enemy than the one you just killed here].

It's the same with everything people keep complaining about from cloakcy campers to local in null...I could go on and on about the backfires. But what heats my hide more than anything is that you simply can't get some people to understand the basic concept and the even more basic truth. Which is this : You simply cannot game design your way out of human nature. You CAN adapt and defeat others (gate camps are easy to avoid and even beat), but not with game rules changes....