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Where did the fun go?

First post First post
Author
Josef Djugashvilis
#161 - 2017-02-08 13:13:30 UTC
Salvos, please, just stop posting.

This is not a signature.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#162 - 2017-02-08 13:15:16 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey Guys Big smile

Thanks for the comments, it's nice to know there's still a sizeable amount of people who care about the health of the forums, for sure.

We're actually in the middle of testing an entirely new forum system with the assistance of our Volunteer team, and we'll more than likely be looking to roll it out somewhere toward the summer Smile

The rollout of these forums is going to include a complete rewrite of the forum rules (relaxing quite a few of them), re-organizing our forum categories and the introduction of a new mandate for ISD in terms of how moderation is carried out, as well as a few other things that the community team will be blogging about in the not too distant future (more than likely soon after Fanfest, which happens in April).

The idea will be to promote more open and direct (but civil) discussion, and give the community a more relaxed place to talk about spaceships P

We'll have more information in the near future <3

Keep it basic. Forums are about discussion. And pretty avatars...
Salvos Rhoska
#163 - 2017-02-08 13:43:55 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Salvos, please, just stop posting.


Why?
Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#164 - 2017-02-08 14:03:15 UTC
Salvos,

You've made your position clear multiple times.
We get it. You're not enthralled by Reddit and you obviously aren't happy with a great deal of the posts other people are saying here.
No insult intended but you've a negative air about you. Enough to think it's intentional. I'd rather have a positive and cordial exchange. The other contributors seem to agree.

I recall you taking pride in your being Finnish and not speaking unless you've something to say. I reiterate - you've done that. The only thing you're doing now is promoting discord.

Perhaps you should create a post of your own. One that you can invite people to post things you'd like to argue about.

"All right, everybody, just calm down" - Space Ghost

"For 800 years ...." - some little green man

Josef Djugashvilis
#165 - 2017-02-08 14:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Salvos, please, just stop posting.


Why?


Because you are behaving like a teenage brat.

Give us all a break and stop posting.

Again, it is troll posters like you which tends to lead to the heavy moderation of these forums.

Just because you can play Eve Online at the tender age of 13 does not mean that you should.

This is not a signature.

Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#166 - 2017-02-08 14:45:51 UTC
Lurker Lottery.

Everyone who logs into the forums during a week goes into a lottery for various prizes.

As a thank you for spending the effort

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#167 - 2017-02-08 18:21:36 UTC
I think if you improve the forums you won't need any incentives to get players to participate. I do think they need an "Alphas only" area, though.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#168 - 2017-02-08 18:48:04 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think if you improve the forums you won't need any incentives to get players to participate. I do think they need an "Alphas only" area, though.


I disagree on the alpha only area, it's refreshing seeing all the new blood. I also think it's good they can get in on discussions, mostly to have their perception of the game re-aligned.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#169 - 2017-02-08 19:49:29 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think if you improve the forums you won't need any incentives to get players to participate. I do think they need an "Alphas only" area, though.


I disagree on the alpha only area, it's refreshing seeing all the new blood. I also think it's good they can get in on discussions, mostly to have their perception of the game re-aligned.



Alphas are nothing to do with what's wrong with these forums.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#170 - 2017-02-08 21:39:55 UTC
Kaleb Mynwarra wrote:
Salvos,

You've made your position clear multiple times.
We get it. You're not enthralled by Reddit and you obviously aren't happy with a great deal of the posts other people are saying here.
No insult intended but you've a negative air about you. Enough to think it's intentional. I'd rather have a positive and cordial exchange. The other contributors seem to agree.

I recall you taking pride in your being Finnish and not speaking unless you've something to say. I reiterate - you've done that. The only thing you're doing now is promoting discord.

Perhaps you should create a post of your own. One that you can invite people to post things you'd like to argue about.


I understand you, I've been talking to him in another thread and eventually I've concluded that he's not a troll, rather that something happens with his way of thinking. So I've blocked him before I fall for the growing insanity of discussing with him. Straight
Circumstantial Evidence
#171 - 2017-02-08 22:10:31 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I strongly disagree with statement that devs posting on other social medias is helping gather new players. Game balancing / new features introducing will be incomprehensible for non-eve players.
While the second statement about game balance discussions is true, the first part is a good reason they've been posting on other platforms - outreach. Here, any simple "just being social" chatter is read mostly by players with accounts. You certainly need an account to respond, which would show some level of commitment and interest in the game. If a CCP post on other media helps catch the eye of a non-player, I think it was a good post.
Mr Mieyli wrote:
it's possible that we can take the up/down vote system and improve on it. Perhaps even a blended forum where users can choose to auto hide posts with a certain number of dislikes, adjustable by tolerance of different opinions (no of dislikes).
If the new system is going to include "dislike" (which was clearly opposed in the development of the current forum) this idea could help. But just adopting Reddit's post sorting options would be fine: "best" by post rating may be the default, but chronological sorting is just a click away. It just takes a little extra work. Another point Reddit has going for it is its focus on words alone: high information density; posts are separated more by indents than avatar graphics and lines. I hope EVE's new forums will make better use of screen real estate and keep graphic fluff to a minimum.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#172 - 2017-02-08 22:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I strongly disagree with statement that devs posting on other social medias is helping gather new players. Game balancing / new features introducing will be incomprehensible for non-eve players.
While the second statement about game balance discussions is true, the first part is a good reason they've been posting on other platforms - outreach. Here, any simple "just being social" chatter is read mostly by players with accounts. You certainly need an account to respond, which would show some level of commitment and interest in the game. If a CCP post on other media helps catch the eye of a non-player, I think it was a good post.
Mr Mieyli wrote:
it's possible that we can take the up/down vote system and improve on it. Perhaps even a blended forum where users can choose to auto hide posts with a certain number of dislikes, adjustable by tolerance of different opinions (no of dislikes).
If the new system is going to include "dislike" (which was clearly opposed in the development of the current forum) this idea could help. But just adopting Reddit's post sorting options would be fine: "best" by post rating may be the default, but chronological sorting is just a click away. It just takes a little extra work. Another point Reddit has going for it is its focus on words alone: high information density; posts are separated more by indents than avatar graphics and lines. I hope EVE's new forums will make better use of screen real estate and keep graphic fluff to a minimum.

There will be no dislikes because people will make alphas to downvote every dev out here. You cant place bounties on CCP devs also.
Kaleb Mynwarra
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#173 - 2017-02-09 00:32:05 UTC

In my view the power of a "thumbs down" vote is on par with a "thumbs up" vote. One could conceive that either one could be flooded with votes for a multidied of causes, to include things like multi boxed / multi account voting. It's very probable that it's already happened here with just the "thumbs up " vote. Up or down the votes should be taken with a grain of salt. With that we shouldn't promote the idea that those votes should influence thread popularity. If for no other reason that there's the possibility that enough egregious votes could mar any honest assessment.

"All right, everybody, just calm down" - Space Ghost

"For 800 years ...." - some little green man

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#174 - 2017-02-09 00:51:34 UTC
As far as I'm concerned they could get rid of the "like" feature too.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Salvos Rhoska
#175 - 2017-02-09 07:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Kaleb Mynwarra wrote:
Salvos,

You've made your position clear multiple times.
We get it. You're not enthralled by Reddit and you obviously aren't happy with a great deal of the posts other people are saying here.
No insult intended but you've a negative air about you. Enough to think it's intentional. I'd rather have a positive and cordial exchange. The other contributors seem to agree.


Ive been far more cordial than most of my antagonists here in this thread.
Ive also remained consistently ontopic.
There are many contributors here that agree with my position.

What you may perceive as negativity, is just me being frank and direct.

Im glad my points have been made clear though, atleast to you as OP.
Iro ically, even this exchange between us represents a microcosm relevant to your OP.

Different people find different things fun when it comes to forum discussion.
Reddit and this board are very different systems, with different qualities.

You asked where did the fun go.

Imo, it is still here.I enjoy long, structured, thought-out content.
Nothing makes me happier than logging in to find interesting threads filled with page long submissions.

Others prefer the format of Reddit.
It certainly lends itself better to browsing/posting on a mobile phone, which I suspect is a significant part of its popularity.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#176 - 2017-02-09 08:13:35 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I strongly disagree with statement that devs posting on other social medias is helping gather new players. Game balancing / new features introducing will be incomprehensible for non-eve players.
While the second statement about game balance discussions is true, the first part is a good reason they've been posting on other platforms - outreach. Here, any simple "just being social" chatter is read mostly by players with accounts. You certainly need an account to respond, which would show some level of commitment and interest in the game. If a CCP post on other media helps catch the eye of a non-player, I think it was a good post.

I have nothing against devs being social in medias. I met devs on tranqility, have a little chit-chat with CCP Mimic few months go in genesis region, saw possitive reaction on my feedback few times, but outreach? Why do I care about devs posts from a game that I don't play? World is full of information today, we must filter it.
Malcanis wrote:
Alphas are nothing to do with what's wrong with these forums.

They don't but before Alpha/Omega forum was locked to only active characters, with F2P/Alpha change anybody who has character can post here. Good change imo.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#177 - 2017-02-09 10:10:35 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I strongly disagree with statement that devs posting on other social medias is helping gather new players. Game balancing / new features introducing will be incomprehensible for non-eve players.
While the second statement about game balance discussions is true, the first part is a good reason they've been posting on other platforms - outreach. Here, any simple "just being social" chatter is read mostly by players with accounts. You certainly need an account to respond, which would show some level of commitment and interest in the game. If a CCP post on other media helps catch the eye of a non-player, I think it was a good post.
Mr Mieyli wrote:
it's possible that we can take the up/down vote system and improve on it. Perhaps even a blended forum where users can choose to auto hide posts with a certain number of dislikes, adjustable by tolerance of different opinions (no of dislikes).
If the new system is going to include "dislike" (which was clearly opposed in the development of the current forum) this idea could help. But just adopting Reddit's post sorting options would be fine: "best" by post rating may be the default, but chronological sorting is just a click away. It just takes a little extra work. Another point Reddit has going for it is its focus on words alone: high information density; posts are separated more by indents than avatar graphics and lines. I hope EVE's new forums will make better use of screen real estate and keep graphic fluff to a minimum.

There will be no dislikes because people will make alphas to downvote every dev out here. You cant place bounties on CCP devs also.


That doesn't happen on reddit, so why here?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Salvos Rhoska
#178 - 2017-02-09 14:42:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
That doesn't happen on reddit, so why here?


We all know alts are created by buttmad people and trolls for any number of purposes.

We can argue about how much, but it certainly happens.
Both on Reddit and here.

But this is all beside the point:
-On Reddit, content floats or sinks based on personal/mob bias.
-Arguments are not won on their merit, but through voting.
mkint
#179 - 2017-02-09 15:36:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That doesn't happen on reddit, so why here?


We all know alts are created by buttmad people and trolls for any number of purposes.

We can argue about how much, but it certainly happens.
Both on Reddit and here.

But this is all beside the point:
-On Reddit, content floats or sinks based on personal/mob bias.
-Arguments are not won on their merit, but through voting.


The current forums use censoring by ISDs and GMs. It's obviously not good enough, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

No, you wouldn't get censored under a reddit-like voting system, it's designed to minimize censorship. You would get censured. Difference is censorship is because people don't like your message. Censure is because people don't like YOU. And that's actually a far better thing that what we have.

And here's why you are bad at the internet: Nobody has EVER "won" an argument on the internet. Ever. The best you can do is make yourself look like a jackass. Even moreso when you think you've "won" an argument online. To argue otherwise is true just reveals yourself as a lizard person wearing a skin suit. An upvote/downvote system doesn't make anyone "win" it just sorts content by value. And yes. you are terrified of that, as you should be.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Salvos Rhoska
#180 - 2017-02-09 15:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
mkint wrote:
The current forums use censoring by ISDs and GMs. It's obviously not good enough, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.


Why shouldnt this thread exist?
OP was entirely valid.

You are hypocritical.
You state that censorship should be at a MINIMUM, yet you simultaneously claim that censuring here is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

mkint wrote:
No, you wouldn't get censored under a reddit-like voting system, it's designed to minimize censorship. You would get censured. Difference is censorship is because people don't like your message. Censure is because people don't like YOU. And that's actually a far better thing that what we have.


By your own admission above, you think this thread should not exist!
Yet here you are, posting in it! The hypocrisy is astounding.

Furthermore compounded by your claim by extension that this thread would NOT exist on Reddit, which means Reddit does not minimize censorship, it MAXIMIZES it, by mob bias, rather than impartial moderation and shared rules.

How can you not understand this?

mkint wrote:
Censure is because people don't like YOU. And that's actually a far better thing that what we have.


Unbelievable.
So you think censure should be based on LIKING someone?

mkint wrote:
And here's why you are bad at the internet: Nobody has EVER "won" an argument on the internet. Ever. The best you can do is make yourself look like a jackass. Even moreso when you think you've "won" an argument online. To argue otherwise is true just reveals yourself as a lizard person wearing a skin suit. An upvote/downvote system doesn't make anyone "win" it just sorts content by value. And yes. you are terrified of that, as you should be.


Arguments are won on the internet, and throughout the world, daily.
If you think you can't lose an argument, that is your problem. If you refuse to admit defeat, that is your problem.
You can and do lose arguments, as you are losing them here.

Up/Down voting does NOT sort content by value, it sorts it by suppression/amplification.
I can up/down vote anyone I want, whether I agree with them or not, and I dont even have to justify in text why I do so.

No matter how right you are, and how "valuable" your post, I can down vote them all, for ever, just cos "i dont like you".

Your post is categorically the most stupid and asinine nonsense I have EVER read on the internet over 25+ years.
Im at a complete loss to explain how you can be so categorically wrong, hypocritical and self- defeating.

The supreme irony here, is that it is exactly people like you that mean the Reddit format will never be other than trash.
Its people like you, that demonstrate why it cannot, and does not, function as a format for argument/debate.
Not because the format is flawed per se, but because it is populated by people like you.