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Where did the fun go?

First post First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#141 - 2017-02-08 00:43:08 UTC
I think there is no dog.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#142 - 2017-02-08 01:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kaleb Mynwarra wrote:
There's a few former threads that used to be here that aren't anymore. Though I can't recall the exact title there was a thread specifically earmarked for alliance/corporate warfare. The volume of posts rivaled general. If memory serves there were multiple posts and/or posters promoting the catch phrase " there is no ( insert name ) "

You are probably thinking of Corporation, Alliance and Organisation Discussion (CAOD).

It used to be very active and CCP have pretty much acknowledged that moderation killed it. They announced new, lighter moderation rules for CAOD a while back in an attempt to liven it up again. Unfortunately everyone had already moved on and much of that discussion has moved to reddit; and for a while Failheap Challenge.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#143 - 2017-02-08 03:40:24 UTC
I made a thread about a conman being extorted in the crime and punishment section. The conman was given 48 hours to respond to the request for payment or details of his latest en devour (worth almost 1 Trillion) would be leaked.

Immediately a popular mod was posting on there telling me to hurry up and get to the point, i felt that I had a right to express myself within EULA and make the thread interesting by adding some realism into it. The thread was locked and immediately another thread of the same name was created so i had to continue my story there.

I have no idea what happened but it seemed this particular mod had no problem ruining the way my story was told at the request of his friend or for isk.

I was actually quite annoyed and in hindsight I should have complained.

I know this post will probably be removed. I believe this post is on topic because it encapsulates the exact reason why many don't really bother with the Eve forums.

I hope lessons have been learned.

---- Lady Spank, if you are out there I'd like to claim my free spanking.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Keno Skir
#144 - 2017-02-08 03:46:34 UTC
Aaron wrote:
I made a thread about a conman being extorted in the crime and punishment section. The conman was given 48 hours to respond to the request for payment or details of his latest en devour (worth almost 1 Trillion) would be leaked.

Immediately a popular mod was posting on there telling me to hurry up and get to the point, i felt that I had a right to express myself within EULA and make the thread interesting by adding some realism into it. The thread was locked and immediately another thread of the same name was created so i had to continue my story there.

I have no idea what happened but it seemed this particular mod had no problem ruining the way my story was told at the request of his friend or for isk.

I was actually quite annoyed and in hindsight I should have complained.

I know this post will probably be removed. I believe this post is on topic because it encapsulates the exact reason why many don't really bother with the Eve forums.

I hope lessons have been learned.

---- Lady Spank, if you are out there I'd like to claim my free spanking.


That is a bit sucky Shocked

That sounds like good content to me, exactly the sort of thing we need more of not less.
morion
Lighting Build
#145 - 2017-02-08 04:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
LIVE

42

red weel
morion
Lighting Build
#146 - 2017-02-08 05:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#147 - 2017-02-08 06:39:03 UTC
Kaleb Mynwarra wrote:
Until now I've never put time into playing Eve. Sure back in the day I dipped my toe into the water with the old trial account but other commitments kept me from playing it for more than a short while. The one thing I did do ' back then' was read up on the forums. That was a bit of entertainment all on its own. Epic multi page threads on a myriad of subjects. Corporate intrigue, alliance warfare, double crosses, pirate action, gank fests, and scams all could be found. Most if not all were colorfully written posts with witty responses and many had counter posts also.

Things arent so busy for me now. With that I've got time to play this game. Remembering how much fun I had reading the forums I'd search em out while at lunch or on break. There's just no describing how disappointed I'm am . These days the forums seem so.....well to put it mildly ...bland. There's no flavor anymore. There's no real drama. Everyone is so ...civil. Seriously it makes no sense considering the idea of 'civility' ,particularly in this game , goes out the window as soon as you undock. I'm not talking RL racists, social or sexists comments. Just the good old fashion flames or posts sticking it to this weeks number one bad guy.

Now let me makes this abundantly clear I am in NO way questioning the rules on what can and can't be posted here on the Eve forums. It's thier space and their rules. Same for the moderators. You guys either get paid or volunteer to enforce the rules. That's all good by me.

That said , I can't believe that the complete win that was once in the forums just died. I thinks it's moved on to another place that wasn't so 'structured'. My question is ..where?

Respond here but if it's rule breaking then send me some info via email.

Thanks



The fun went out the door when fascism walked in. Watch what you say.... they are watching and they are always justified.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#148 - 2017-02-08 07:56:59 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It used to be very active and CCP have pretty much acknowledged that moderation killed it. They announced new, lighter moderation rules for CAOD a while back in an attempt to liven it up again. Unfortunately everyone had already moved on and much of that discussion has moved to reddit; and for a while Failheap Challenge.


That's why I think o-forum is FUBAR. Lighter rules won't solve this. It will be some forum moderation vs reddit. Frankly I didn't like reddit, it's a mess, just wall of information incoming, but now I get used to and "it is the place where the fun go". Tight moderation was a mistake, suddenly devs realize that they have no representative group of players on o-forum so they are turned into other sites. Mistake beyond repair. Second was banning players on forum. Remember Dinsdale? I don't care if he is a forum troll etc. You may not like him, disagree with him but banning is not the way you speak with other peoples (in fact with Pirannha worst thing you can do to him was not posting in his threads...), but because of him and people alike Dinsdale forum lived.

I strongly disagree with statement that devs posting on other social medias is helping gather new players. Game balancing / new features introducing will be incomprehensible for non-eve players.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Salvos Rhoska
#149 - 2017-02-08 09:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
There is a blatant hypocrisy here by some posters.

First they claim they prefer Reddit, because they claim it it is less restrictive, with less rules.

But then they turn around and state how its a good thing that Reddit mass up/down voting censures posters with unpopular views vs a majority, and mods are un-vetted partisans.

This confirms what I said about the true motivations of persons that prefer Reddit.

They are trying to extricate discussion, posters and Devs to a 3rd party platform where THEY can censure and control content by majority, rather than rules.

They want an echo-chamber, where they can subdue and silence voices/views they dont "like", based on personal bias rather than shared universal rules.

The result is if 2 persons commit the same action, instead of both of those persons being held to the same rules/standards, the Reddit community can instead silence one of them, whilst raising the volume of the other, completely arbitrarily, depending on their own bias.

I think its abhorrent. Its rule by a mob.

Instead of content standing on its own merits and being argued as such by other content standing on its own merit, it is subjected to arbitrary raising or lowering of its volume based on a simple click of up/down.
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#150 - 2017-02-08 09:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DioKahn
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is a blatant hypocrisy here by some posters.

First they claim they prefer Reddit, because they claim it it is less restrictive, with less rules.

But then they turn around and state how its a good thing that Reddit mass up/down voting censures posters with unpopular views vs a majority, and mods are partisan.

This confirms what I said about the true motivations of persons that prefer Reddit.

They are trying to extricate discussion, posters and Devs ro a 3rd party platform where THEY can censure and control content by majority, rather than rules.

They want an echo-chamber, where they can subdue and silence voices/views they dont "like", based on personal bias rather than shared universal rules.

The result is if 2 persons commit the same action, instead of both of those persons being held to the same rules/standards, the Reddit community can instead silence one of them, whilst raising the volume of the other, completely arbitrarily, depending on their own bias.

Blatent hypocracy! Listen to this guy.... lol. He's fkg srs and this is srs chit.
Salvos Rhoska
#151 - 2017-02-08 09:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
DioKahn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
There is a blatant hypocrisy here by some posters.

First they claim they prefer Reddit, because they claim it it is less restrictive, with less rules.

But then they turn around and state how its a good thing that Reddit mass up/down voting censures posters with unpopular views vs a majority, and mods are partisan.

This confirms what I said about the true motivations of persons that prefer Reddit.

They are trying to extricate discussion, posters and Devs ro a 3rd party platform where THEY can censure and control content by majority, rather than rules.

They want an echo-chamber, where they can subdue and silence voices/views they dont "like", based on personal bias rather than shared universal rules.

The result is if 2 persons commit the same action, instead of both of those persons being held to the same rules/standards, the Reddit community can instead silence one of them, whilst raising the volume of the other, completely arbitrarily, depending on their own bias.

Blatent hypocracy! Listen to this guy.... lol. He's fkg srs and this is srs chit.


Example A:

On Reddit, my post and view above would no doubt be mass down-voted, rather than argued on its content.

Whereas Dio's shiptoasting one-liner crap would no doubt be mass up-voted, despite the fact its a completely useless, contentless piece of garbage.



You just proved my point completely.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#152 - 2017-02-08 09:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Example A:

On Reddit, my post and view above would no doubt be mass down-voted, rather than argued on its content.

Whereas Dio's shiptoasting one-liner crap would no doubt be mass up-voted, despite the fact its a completely useless, contentless piece of garbage.



You just proved my point completely.

The anti-cheat system that Reddit uses helps avoid this. You'd know about it if you actually did some research instead of making wild assumptions that you take as fact.

Then again, it wouldn't be a Salvos post if it wasn't based on wild assumptions taken as fact.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#153 - 2017-02-08 09:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Example A:

On Reddit, my post and view above would no doubt be mass down-voted, rather than argued on its content.

Whereas Dio's shiptoasting one-liner crap would no doubt be mass up-voted, despite the fact its a completely useless, contentless piece of garbage.



You just proved my point completely.

The anti-cheat system that Reddit uses helps avoid this. You'd know about it if you actually did some research instead of making wild assumptions that you take as fact.


You are the one making the wild assumption that I dont know how Reddit works.
Nice try though, albeit again, blatant hypocrisy.
Are you genuinely so stupid that you dont see it?
Or are you just so dishonest that you cant acknowledge it?

My Example A is proven yet again.

On Reddit, content is not argued on its merit. It is subdued/amplified based on mob voting based on personal bias.
To the result that the turds float, whilst anything of substance that requires more than a glib oneliner in response, sinks.

Its a platform for idiots that cant handle debate, and prefer the "privilege" of subduing/amplifying content based on their own bias rather than arguing its content.

Reddit is not a forum, either in a classic or modern sense of the word, where discussion is recorded, argued and debated.

Reddit is a mob arena where content is subdued/amplified by shouting, either to drown out dissenting voices or amplify your own.
DioKahn
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#154 - 2017-02-08 09:51:53 UTC
Cupcakes P
Salvos Rhoska
#155 - 2017-02-08 09:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
1) Patrician Forum Tier Content:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


On Reddit, content is not argued on its merit. It is subdued/amplified based on mob voting based on personal bias.
To the result that the turds float, whilst anything of substance that requires more than a glib oneliner in response, sinks.

Its a platform for idiots that cant handle debate, and prefer the "privilege" of subduing/amplifying content based on their own bias rather than arguing its content.

Reddit is not a forum, either in a classic or modern sense of the word, where discussion is recorded, argued and debated.

Reddit is a mob arena where content is subdued/amplified by shouting, either to drown out dissenting voices or amplify your own.


2) Plebeian Reddit Tier Content:

DioKahn wrote:
Cupcakes P


I rest my case.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#156 - 2017-02-08 10:20:26 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Reddit is not a forum, either in a classic or modern sense of the word, where discussion is recorded, argued and debated.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Reddit is a mob arena where content is subdued/amplified by shouting, either to drown out dissenting voices or amplify your own.

Very true, and it's obvious for someone who read few reddit topics, but I think you missing the point. If you want to find all above you don't go to reddit. You must leave internet for that. Internet level of discussion is medicore at best.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Its a platform for idiots that cant handle debate, and prefer the "privilege" of subduing/amplifying content based on their own bias rather than arguing its content.

you may find that kind of people everywhere. Even here.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#157 - 2017-02-08 11:05:51 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You are the one making the wild assumption that I dont know how Reddit works.
Nice try though, albeit again, blatant hypocrisy.

Wrong again Salvo. You provided the evidence that you have no clue how reddit works. No assumption was necessary on my part.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#158 - 2017-02-08 11:32:35 UTC
In my opinion there's no better way to moderate than having the people vote on my comments, only thing better would be full anonymity but I can understand that's just my preference. In an anonymous and unmoderated environment people feel completely free sharing ideas and putting down bad ideas.

Mob rule sounds scary to salvos, but the mob is actually quite good at regulating itself. If presented properly even unpopular opinions will be heard, and the mantle might be taken up by others in the mob. Very similar to the witch hunt discussed earlier in the thread, where one voice started it and others joined in and supported.

Mob rule on these forums without anonymity would lead to cliques which would be bad for discussions.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#159 - 2017-02-08 12:55:44 UTC
You have to do tasks to receive a fun cookie from now on.

All my fun cookies has gone to my secrit jar with "Cookies" written on it. I keep it locked and in sekrit location so nobody would take them away from me, and I can share them with those who I like most.
Salvos Rhoska
#160 - 2017-02-08 12:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Snip.


I think we can agree that this forum and Reddit are defined from each other by their differences.
I think we can agree that this forum has qualities x,y,z, and Reddit has qualities a, b, c.
I think we can agree which format we personally prefer is based on our own values ranging from d-w.



I disagree where you associate mobs with regulation, and hence with moderation.

The definition of moderation, is:
"the quality of being moderate; restraint; avoidance of extremes or excesses; temperance."

A moderator is, by consent of all participants, empowered to enforce/regulate the above, by subjecting all participants to the same set of rules, inorder to enact restraint and avoidance of extremes and excesses.

Thus all voices are equal and individual, and are held to the same rules, by regulation, by moderation.

In a mob, however, there is only one rule:
-They who shout loudest, win.
--They win, by out-shouting opposition. Drowning out their voice.
--The less restraint, and the more excess, the louder the voice.
--The issues do not matter, only the loudest voice, does.

Thus a mob, is the antithesis of moderation.
The mob, "regulates" by out-shouting and thus suppressing dissent, not on the issues themselves, but by sheer volume.
The validity of issues/arguments at hand are relegated to a backseat, whereas who shouts the loudest, wins out.

The Ancient Greeks debated this issue extensively millennia ago in their early democratic experiments, as handed down to us especially in Plato's recounting of Socrates, and it has been an issue ever since. They explored it through notions of virtue and value of truth, and whether it is argument and consensus on the issues that decides that, or sheer mass/volume of a mob.



If you prefer Reddit, for whatever reasons, go ahead and post there instead.

But dont kid yourself about what you are getting into, or why you are doing so.