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Jump Fatigue Feedback

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#621 - 2016-09-04 06:47:18 UTC
as someone who has done a lot with sov since pos the current one is probably the best. don't get me wrong it has a crap load of issues but it was definitely a step in the right direction and broke sov up well. so i wouldn't say it has gone downhill since

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
LiBraga
State War Academy
Caldari State
#622 - 2016-09-09 14:13:23 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
as someone who has done a lot with sov since pos the current one is probably the best. don't get me wrong it has a crap load of issues but it was definitely a step in the right direction and broke sov up well. so i wouldn't say it has gone downhill since


What are you on about ?
There was nothing better than spending a week setting up and fuelling 100+ pos's to claim and secure sov in a system Roll

Seriously, I must agree, despite it's flaws this is one of the better sov systems CCP have introduced.

However, I do believe carriers and Rorquals need a slightly larger jump range.
Areas of the drone lands are near impossible to get to (Aunenen to CobaltEdge would be 21 Cynos).
The other possibility would be to allow these caps to travel through h/s gates and only retaliate to aggressors.

If it moves.... You obviously didn't kill it the first time.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#623 - 2016-09-11 05:42:07 UTC
the difficulty of getting to a region is not a reason to up jump ranges it just makes for a different tactical landscape. if you don't want to deal with it don't fight/live there

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#624 - 2016-09-11 13:15:09 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the difficulty of getting to a region is not a reason to up jump ranges it just makes for a different tactical landscape. if you don't want to deal with it don't fight/live there


I don't want to deal with it at all, so that is 3 accounts that I am not running, because CCP made what I consider "the real" eve too much work.

.....and I am not alone, I have a couple offers on the table, I can't make myself get back in the game the idea of getting all of my crap from bumble where I left it and jumping it...well anywhere....is just not palatable.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#625 - 2016-09-11 14:01:44 UTC
.... don't JFs still have the same range?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#626 - 2016-09-12 00:09:20 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the difficulty of getting to a region is not a reason to up jump ranges it just makes for a different tactical landscape. if you don't want to deal with it don't fight/live there


I don't want to deal with it at all, so that is 3 accounts that I am not running, because CCP made what I consider "the real" eve too much work.

.....and I am not alone, I have a couple offers on the table, I can't make myself get back in the game the idea of getting all of my crap from bumble where I left it and jumping it...well anywhere....is just not palatable.

The whole idea now is; If your not moving in a large group you fire sale and start over at your new home. Kinda sucks but is the most efficient way.
You leave an alliance or corp that lives outside highsec, your options for moving your stuff are limited (carriers and dreads - insure and have an alt kill them for insurance) - This is working as Devs intended, players having options needs to be limited by mechanics (they've done a pretty good job of it).

Lugh - Doesn't matter how far a JF can jump, if you can't dock to load it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#627 - 2016-09-12 07:45:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the difficulty of getting to a region is not a reason to up jump ranges it just makes for a different tactical landscape. if you don't want to deal with it don't fight/live there


I don't want to deal with it at all, so that is 3 accounts that I am not running, because CCP made what I consider "the real" eve too much work.

.....and I am not alone, I have a couple offers on the table, I can't make myself get back in the game the idea of getting all of my crap from bumble where I left it and jumping it...well anywhere....is just not palatable.

The whole idea now is; If your not moving in a large group you fire sale and start over at your new home. Kinda sucks but is the most efficient way.
You leave an alliance or corp that lives outside highsec, your options for moving your stuff are limited (carriers and dreads - insure and have an alt kill them for insurance) - This is working as Devs intended, players having options needs to be limited by mechanics (they've done a pretty good job of it).

Lugh - Doesn't matter how far a JF can jump, if you can't dock to load it.


Right or just step out of that game entirely.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#628 - 2016-09-12 12:44:03 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the difficulty of getting to a region is not a reason to up jump ranges it just makes for a different tactical landscape. if you don't want to deal with it don't fight/live there


I don't want to deal with it at all, so that is 3 accounts that I am not running, because CCP made what I consider "the real" eve too much work.

.....and I am not alone, I have a couple offers on the table, I can't make myself get back in the game the idea of getting all of my crap from bumble where I left it and jumping it...well anywhere....is just not palatable.

The whole idea now is; If your not moving in a large group you fire sale and start over at your new home. Kinda sucks but is the most efficient way.
You leave an alliance or corp that lives outside highsec, your options for moving your stuff are limited (carriers and dreads - insure and have an alt kill them for insurance) - This is working as Devs intended, players having options needs to be limited by mechanics (they've done a pretty good job of it).

Lugh - Doesn't matter how far a JF can jump, if you can't dock to load it.


Right or just step out of that game entirely.


Your right, the end game for many who play eve is when they let Dev decisions push them out.

Don't be one of those, I don't want your stuff, so firesale what you can't easily move (1 carrier or dread with your fav ships, sell the rest) and get back to your game..

Personally I have halved the amount of subs I had a year ago but am still here because Eve still has its moments and I don't want to miss mine :)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#629 - 2016-09-14 00:05:44 UTC
Been a long time since i was in a capital ship. felt kind of nice sitting in a carrier seat once again and I begin my jump route plan and go WTF?!?!?! 5ly jump. and I got Jump cal 5?!?!?

Jump Fatigue from what i remember was introduced to keep the huge capital battles down and force alliances to consider when to commit them and when not too.

The Jump Range Nerf was enough to cripple people from considering in moving to null if they already got a carrier hiding in a low sec pocket collecting dust.

and training Jump Cal 5 was a horrendous training time and does basicaly nothing for us now.

How about replacing the skill with something more USEFUL "Jump Stamina" reduce jump fatigue

please reconsider and bring back the normal Carriers jump range or bumping it up to 8ly.
Valentine King
Zarnfell
#630 - 2016-09-18 10:38:28 UTC
Sheesh..........

All this talk of EvE realism and jump fatigue.

I've watched Star Trek heaps of time, which as we ALL know is real (.......), and you never see Jim and Spock get fatigued from all the jumping they do!! Hell, Kirk has that much energy left he normally goes away with landing parties just to pick up strange and exotic women.......

CCP take note - less jump fatigue (because it is not realistic like Star Trek is) and more exotic women (and men for the ladies, because I'm not sexist) please.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#631 - 2016-09-19 20:31:16 UTC
Valentine King wrote:
Sheesh..........

All this talk of EvE realism and jump fatigue.

I've watched Star Trek heaps of time, which as we ALL know is real ......


Ahhh - serialisation has destroyed immersion!

You have forgotten that Star Trek has you miss out on the 6 days and 23 hours spent flying to the next system for the next single, lonely, fun-packed one hour of action.

Space is Big - and I mean - really big!Twisted

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#632 - 2016-10-12 02:49:57 UTC
Create drugs that increase jump range/decrease jump fatigue. Add in a 3rd factor just like jump fatigue but make it for a negative effect attached to these drugs that could 100% of the time reduce ehp/agility/speed etc. (not dps though IMO) on all ships that character flies for the duration of this timer (Model this timer on the math for the jump fatigue IMO where it exponentially increases). It would effectively remove the threat of someone dropping their big hitters on you from 1/2 way across the universe, but would still allow for some interesting projection where thin-glass cannon fleets could come and try and 3rd party on fights, but would also be at a bit of a disadvantage.

edit: you could even call them polarized drugs
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#633 - 2016-11-01 03:16:05 UTC
Hated it when implemented, still hate it.

Do I have to flap my arms to get the ship to move...is that why I'm fatigued?

Mostly it pissed me off because I was at the edge of the map when it was implemented and getting my assets back to lowsec was a nightmare and took FOREVER.

Alliances come and go - and unless you belong to a giant one that NEVER or RARELY loses sov or access to outposts you have to worry about moving house every few months. Maybe the alliance petered out, maybe they were renters and decided to pick up sticks and move while you were gone for a few days. Maybe they were steamrolled by a larger alliance over the weekend you didn't log on.

People don't like to feel trapped. I certainly don't and being that far into null and then suddenly having to have at least double the number of cyno points to get back (when there were already a lot) made me feel like I was. Getting anything to/from Highsec is suddenly a days long pain in the ass. It's the same reason I won't go -10 in lowsec anymore...I don't like not being able to fly through highsec if I want to go to Jita or I need to cross it to get to another part of low/null. (not to mention the sec lvl grind back was tedious as hell) I want to be able to go where I want when I want. And that's tricky enough in low and null without piling on some bullshit mechanic meant to stop the mega alliances from traipsing from this edge of the map to that one and teabagging everyone just because they can.

It seems like every time one of these mechanics is implemented to somehow put a damper on the efforts of the largest alliances it screws the small corps/alliances and is barely a bump in the road for the largest ones it was intended for because they're so obscenely rich.

So yeah...make the jump ranges better, get rid of space aids and find some other way to control force projection w/o trapping people at the ass end of nowhere.

It says Jump Fatigue Feedback and that's my feedback...it sucks.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#634 - 2016-11-02 19:35:27 UTC
Rikanin wrote:


It says Jump Fatigue Feedback and that's my feedback...it sucks.




Citadels have a built in mechanic that mitigates extracting - asset safety in a citadel even in the most remote parts of K-space will move all your stuff to the nearest NPC station within a few days, for just 15% of the ISK cost. Yes, it's a hit, but it does enable one to plunge into something and take a chance, with a solid lifeline back to Low.

Also, the Security status tags let you buy back sec status. Only costs like ~150m to go from -10 to -5.

So those reasons aren't really good reasons for not liking fatigue. There sure are legitimate reasons, but not those.

As someone who has moved several times under the fatigue changes:

Self-destruct all capitals that are not supers after insuring them. Ship the fittings. Repackage all ships. Rigs are cheap. Time, is not.



Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#635 - 2017-01-23 14:30:32 UTC
Rikanin wrote:
Hated it when implemented, still hate it.

Do I have to flap my arms to get the ship to move...is that why I'm fatigued?

Mostly it pissed me off because I was at the edge of the map when it was implemented and getting my assets back to lowsec was a nightmare and took FOREVER.

Alliances come and go - and unless you belong to a giant one that NEVER or RARELY loses sov or access to outposts you have to worry about moving house every few months. Maybe the alliance petered out, maybe they were renters and decided to pick up sticks and move while you were gone for a few days. Maybe they were steamrolled by a larger alliance over the weekend you didn't log on.

People don't like to feel trapped. I certainly don't and being that far into null and then suddenly having to have at least double the number of cyno points to get back (when there were already a lot) made me feel like I was. Getting anything to/from Highsec is suddenly a days long pain in the ass. It's the same reason I won't go -10 in lowsec anymore...I don't like not being able to fly through highsec if I want to go to Jita or I need to cross it to get to another part of low/null. (not to mention the sec lvl grind back was tedious as hell) I want to be able to go where I want when I want. And that's tricky enough in low and null without piling on some bullshit mechanic meant to stop the mega alliances from traipsing from this edge of the map to that one and teabagging everyone just because they can.

It seems like every time one of these mechanics is implemented to somehow put a damper on the efforts of the largest alliances it screws the small corps/alliances and is barely a bump in the road for the largest ones it was intended for because they're so obscenely rich.

So yeah...make the jump ranges better, get rid of space aids and find some other way to control force projection w/o trapping people at the ass end of nowhere.

It says Jump Fatigue Feedback and that's my feedback...it sucks.









Some other way such as what? You moving your suitcase carrier full of ships IS power projection. Any alternative scheme to restrict power projection will restrict you just as fatigue does. Before you immediately blurt out some varient on "NUH UH", try and think of a scheme that doesn't reduce to fatigue by some other name or a "l pinky swear" restriction that won't restrict anything.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#636 - 2017-01-23 14:32:16 UTC
Lelob wrote:
Create drugs that increase jump range/decrease jump fatigue. Add in a 3rd factor just like jump fatigue but make it for a negative effect attached to these drugs that could 100% of the time reduce ehp/agility/speed etc. (not dps though IMO) on all ships that character flies for the duration of this timer (Model this timer on the math for the jump fatigue IMO where it exponentially increases). It would effectively remove the threat of someone dropping their big hitters on you from 1/2 way across the universe, but would still allow for some interesting projection where thin-glass cannon fleets could come and try and 3rd party on fights, but would also be at a bit of a disadvantage.

edit: you could even call them polarized drugs



Your scheme to use capital holding characters as penalty mules is pretty transparent.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#637 - 2017-01-23 14:35:05 UTC
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
Been a long time since i was in a capital ship. felt kind of nice sitting in a carrier seat once again and I begin my jump route plan and go WTF?!?!?! 5ly jump. and I got Jump cal 5?!?!?

Jump Fatigue from what i remember was introduced to keep the huge capital battles down and force alliances to consider when to commit them and when not too.

The Jump Range Nerf was enough to cripple people from considering in moving to null if they already got a carrier hiding in a low sec pocket collecting dust.

and training Jump Cal 5 was a horrendous training time and does basicaly nothing for us now.

How about replacing the skill with something more USEFUL "Jump Stamina" reduce jump fatigue

please reconsider and bring back the normal Carriers jump range or bumping it up to 8ly.



And yet capital ships are used way more frequently than they were before fatigue.

Just not by you....

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
kaimai
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors
Brotherhood Of Silent Space
#638 - 2017-03-25 11:08:42 UTC
I would just reduce the jumprange. Get rid of Fatigue and put up a fix reactivation timer.
Fatigue literally steals RL Time.
Everybody hates it: People from small Alliance and from big ones.
Plus no big Cap Fights ever gonna happen again.

Fly safe o/
Cade Windstalker
#639 - 2017-03-26 02:46:59 UTC
"No big cap fights" has literally already been proven false. People just need a good reason to pull the caps out.

Also they already buffed the jump range once already, nerfing it certainly isn't needed.

Not everyone hates it, and most people realize the good things that it's done for the game.

The whole point of this is to "steal RL time" because it stops people from getting caps anywhere in Eve in half an hour. There is literally not going to be a solution that prevents that and makes long distance moves easy.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#640 - 2017-03-26 14:16:58 UTC
kaimai wrote:
I would just reduce the jumprange. Get rid of Fatigue and put up a fix reactivation timer.
Fatigue literally steals RL Time.
Everybody hates it: People from small Alliance and from big ones.
Plus no big Cap Fights ever gonna happen again.


"Everybody hates it"

IMO Jump fatigue was one of the best things CCP did for the game. It needs to be more restrictive, if anything.