These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

First post First post
Author
Kiandoshia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#341 - 2015-08-19 12:45:54 UTC
Reagalan wrote:
Won't do jack **** to a system that is fundamentally and critically flawed and unsalvageable.

Until you get off of this "small gang" and "local conflict" soapbox the decline of Eve will continue. We didn't sign up for small gang impermanent bullshit and we detest your attempts to force this playstyle upon us.


Thank you very much. This is exactly how I feel. CCP if you want to force us to play the game like this then do it. Stop guiding and pushing us. Do the sledgehammer thing, like you usually do and dictate the way we should play.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2015-08-19 12:46:29 UTC
yogizh wrote:
Will you also create a ship that can track a ceptor moving at 4000 m/s ?
Cause that was your policy right ? Having a counter to everything ?

This change solves nothing.


Yes, a ship that can also move between grids at will to be able to catch the entosis trollceptor who is already out of the sov structure grid by the time you land on it from the gate.

Because he'll have seen you drop in local long before you land on grid and he'll have aligned away.

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#343 - 2015-08-19 12:49:14 UTC
Alundil wrote:
PopplerRo wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
What does a 4km/s speed limit on atrollceptor actually mean?

You can ECM the ceptor using a 16M ISk Dragoon and break his lock, scuppering his warm-up timer.

Quote:
[Dragoon, test]

Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II
Small Ionic Field Projector II

Hornet EC-300 x 5


..

while the idea is sound that fit is plain stupid.
1.You have no active ecm mod, and those rigs don't work on the drones.
2. The drones are too slow to even catch up to jam the target.

For the cost just use a griffin, or an instawarp 'ceptor with active jams in the mids. Land, jam, warp out.

Troll 'ceptors with even more cancerous ones


Couple points on your points:
1. The Dragoon is a drone dessie. It needs no ECM mods. The rigs aren't there to affect the drones, they allow the Dragoon to target out to 124km.
2. EC-300 drones on the Dragoon can travel up to 5k/s so more than fast enough to catch the magicsovwandingceptors after Galatea.







As an aside - the b|tching and moaning taking place in the first 9 pages is already increasing the risk of cardiovascular disease in the playerbase.

Ease up folks. Ease up. This set of changes isn't the "sky is falling" moment either. FFS.


I believe what he's trying to say is.. Why chase the damn ceptor with drones and just JAM it period. Land on Grid.. Use Active-ECM mid slot.. Ceptor is jammed.. Frigates do this job well. No need for a dessy. Hell warp in with ECM frig, Jam ceptor... Cloak up and wait for him to come back.. he arrives and starts entosing, let his "warm-up" cycle clear.. Decloak and jam again. Continue until heart is crushed.


Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2015-08-19 12:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Aiyshimin wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Here are my thoughts about the set of 'tweaks' that Fozzie announced:

They are simply amazing.
They absolutely manage to touch and correct almost none of the issues that the majority of null players were pointing out very vocally.

Node reductions might be pointed out as a positive change, but the tweak on them is so light that is suspiciously looks like to me an attempt to damage control after the overwhelmingly negative feedback that has been addressed to Fozzie & the team.

With these levels of excellence at the inability to comprehend the basic demands of the null sov players, I can easily foresee EVE Online going F2P in short to medium term with the current trends of concurrent logins and subscription numbers rapidly bleeding out.

Well done Fozzie, now please do pen a dev blog about how you succeeded on placing the game on life support and prevented the death. Meanwhile, we'll be throwing soil on EVE's casket and saying our prayers in the grim cemetery of reality.

Reagalan made an excellent post about why your ideas and insistence on shoving a certain playstyle down the nullseccers collective throats is a bad idea. You might want to read that several times.


The majority of nullsec hasn't pointed to anything. A loud minority, consisting mostly of your alliance is crying and pointing at all the wrong things, rest of the playerbase and devs laugh at your futile mongering. You're wrong, suck it up or just gtfo- there''s literally nobody that cares whether you unsub or not, but at least have the decency to shut up.




Taking a look at Deklein and taking a look at your post shows me that in the end, you will be the one who'll take up your well documented tradition of a) shutting up b) giving up c) quitting

Besides, this thread is a very good demonstrator just like all the sov threads and roundtables before that majority of sov null is against being forced to play this game in just a certain type of way and spend hours of grinding while doing so. Basically, your kind is a very small minority.

However, I do appreciate your candor for trying.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#345 - 2015-08-19 12:50:37 UTC
Warmeister wrote:
Sjugar02 wrote:

Would you like to explain to the uninformed masses why PL doesn't have or want sov and how this relates to you defending the new sov system?

what makes you think i'm speaking on behalf of PL? also what makes you think that me defending new sov has anything to do with me being in PL or with PL allegedly not having and not wanting sov?


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yfAeMtcURg0/hqdefault.jpg

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#346 - 2015-08-19 12:52:41 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Galphii wrote:
Consider prohibiting microwarpdrive use while entosis links are running

I like this.
4km/s hard limit seems really random to me. What next? 100k EHP hard limit for T3 cruisers? 150km drone control range? 500 GJ/s capacitor regen when in triage?



The field from the Entosis link causes a Disruption to Warp field Generation (It already can't warp out under entosis.. so it follows that lore) disabling the ability for Micro warp drives to be activated in conjunction with the Link.
Tallardar
PC Culture
#347 - 2015-08-19 12:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallardar
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Back when every MAJOR power bloc started rolling out their own versions of Brave Dojo because they RESPECT how BNI was handling things.


Except those sort of channels and programs existed well before BRAVE was even a thing. Ask E-UNI, GOONs, TEST, or any of the other dozen or so new player friendly alliances about their newbie education systems. BRAVE didn't really invent anything that didn't already exist.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2015-08-19 12:58:05 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
OldWolf69 wrote:
Fozzie.
What if ppl STILL won't come to TAKE the Sov effectively? Because they won't. WHY in the blue hell would you expose yourself to trolling, and spend a LOT of isk too, if you can be the troll, and this for peanuts?
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
This speaks for itself.
You still think your game is kept alive by 2 trolling small gang runners? Or 2-3 forum yellers? or they are just a convenable way to justify bad decisions/total lack of imagination?
....saw a lot of imbecility in corporate ranks. A great lot. But this batch beats them all. I suppose this is because they had ENOUGH things to destroy. And the corporation owners do not give a **** about it.
Once again: there is absolutely no real reasons to fight except the economical ones. Or trolling ones. EVERYBODY knows Sov is work, and will be actually worser after all this ****. THIS is a GAME, not a JOB.
WE all know you CCP boyz are out of ideeas. Presuming you had some back in time. Ok, HIRE someone able to fix the sandbox. It does cost? Stupidity does cost a lot. CCP lost already more than a good team of Devs does cost. It's already REALLY close to a point of no return, for this game. Every change is fun for exactly 3 days here, like the orthodox wonders. Hallelujah!
LolLolLol

This is really bad posting, but I have to say it: Delicious subgewn tears.
Less bot/multicast accs being bad? No, except if you're gewn, then yes.
If holding sov makes you cry, you should not hold sov. Fairly obvious, unless your density is in "gewn or worse" range.
If you think the troll has it so nice, why aren't you trolling yet?
If a gewn/subgewn quits, good riddance.
Can I have your stuff?


Obvious MoA shill forum alt detected, terrible spelling and lack of knowledge in English grammar made it obvious. 1/10
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#349 - 2015-08-19 12:59:16 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
You prove my point for me. thank you. How do you stop a null sec from only fighting with a blob. you cant because it is part of their mentality. n+1, yada yada. Null sec needs to feel that it is special, important, relevant. super blobs.

Polarization is human nature of trying to be on a winning team and is only nerfable by putting severe limits on both corp and alliance size, yet there will always be ways around it. Null sec proved for 8 years that it would always find the way around everything to get what they want, and now they cant do it with fozzie sov. Fozzie sov was a good idea that was poorly implemented, even I know that. but it is still a great idea.
Exactly! You can't. You seem to think these mechanics will do that and failing that "just one more nerf (tm)". Whatever system is in place and whoever leaves the game, the alliance level mechanics will always be rules by the players with the biggest stick. Groups will gravitate towards collaboration to overcome their enemies until we're back to exactly the same blob we have always had. The only question is will there even be a population left over when the dust settles.

One of the biggest draws to EVE were the massive space battles that ended up in the news all over the world. Those are now dead. How anyone can consider that a good thing I do not know.

And no, nullsec can still get around everything to get what they want, even with fozziesov. You realise fozziesov isn't hard to defend, right? It's easy to contest but it's difficult to take. The only difference now is that it's boring from both sides and far more frequent. The smaller groups were happy to live with that at first because the dull mechanics were a means to an end, their chance to fight back against the null powers. Now they are already bored and starting to post the same complaints as everyone else.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tallardar
PC Culture
#350 - 2015-08-19 12:59:28 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Obvious MoA shill forum alt detected, terrible spelling and lack of knowledge in English grammar made it obvious. 1/10


Have you looked at the Legion of xXDeathXx posts? They're just as bad.
bear mcgreedy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#351 - 2015-08-19 13:01:22 UTC
Tallardar wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Obvious MoA shill forum alt detected, terrible spelling and lack of knowledge in English grammar made it obvious. 1/10


Have you looked at the Legion of xXDeathXx posts? They're just as bad.



thats because they're hammered on vodkaLolLolLolLol
Aaron Kyoto
Frozen Silver.
Arkhos Core
#352 - 2015-08-19 13:01:37 UTC
oodell wrote:
Interceptors have been cancer since the day they were released. Not having counters for things in this game has been historically terrible, and right now a gang of interceptors has no counter if they don't want to get caught. Yes you can catch one or two if you're lucky and have the right ships, but the rest blow past you, and you have no way to catch up. Let HICs catch them already.


So Sabres and HICs are bad without Interceptors, since ships without counterplay are bad...?

Giving these changes a chance, personally with hopes they disable entosis on Interceptors and Cloaking ships.
Arla Sarain
#353 - 2015-08-19 13:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Non of this is productive.

Until a motivation to actually hold sov is established, any capture mechanics will always invite some incoherent philosophy regarding:
what should be easier (capturing or holding)
what assets should be required to engage in a sov conflict
how much undocking should the defender require
the logistics required to occupy out in sov, and consequently prod other groups in local or remote accommodations in order to insinuate a fight (also called content, because explorers, miners, manufacturers, and ratters are not real people. In fact, the "blood thirsty NS f1 wizards are the divine inheritors of all EVE content)

Majority of points in this thread are valid from their PoVs - some people are happy cos Aegis Sov is inviting PvP that those groups can participate in, without the forced commitment to an encounter where they are blobbed.
Others hate it for the amount of chasing it requires, which diverts from the actual monopolisation of "their" sov.
Third are still bitter they can't base out in relative safe pastures and then snap their fingers to deploy to the other side of the map to gank a ratting carrier. Elite pvpers and such.

Wanna bet if owning sov deposited ISK into corp wallet which would then fund the alliance SRP (that is if your corp really matters), then chasing trollceptros around wouldn't be such a big deal? Also rat bounty tax.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2015-08-19 13:01:44 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.


Ah yes. Where goons reigned supreme with the Blob or GTFO tactics on, well on everything. How about no.


It is actually Brave that tried to, but failed most of the time, to reign supreme through blobbing everything. But since that irony did not strike you at all before posting, what are the chances of your character being an alt of some other player that is unrelated to null sov?
Tallardar
PC Culture
#355 - 2015-08-19 13:02:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallardar
Lucas Kell wrote:
One of the biggest draws to EVE were the massive space battles that ended up in the news all over the world. Those are now dead.


The last time any major space battle was reported by non-gaming sites focusing on EVE was in February 2014. That was 18 months ago and no one has even tried or attempted to create another major battle on that scale between then and now.

bear mcgreedy wrote:
Tallardar wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Obvious MoA shill forum alt detected, terrible spelling and lack of knowledge in English grammar made it obvious. 1/10


Have you looked at the Legion of xXDeathXx posts? They're just as bad.



thats because they're hammered on vodkaLolLolLolLol


That's racist.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#356 - 2015-08-19 13:04:06 UTC
Just read the original post. All of that sounds great till you realize that the underlying system is the thing that is bad, not individual mechanics or issues.

The problem is that this system is tantamount to CCP going "you know what, screw it" after 12 years of advertising huge space battles. Now we have a system to bends null sec into a crappier copy of faction warfare low sec.

They literally took a system that could be equal parts boredom (structure grinding) and Epicness and made it ALL boring (and then counted that as a win). I thought the change (ie massive over-reaction) from POS based sov to dominion was bad, but this one is worse, at least Dominion preserved the spirit of 0.0 space fighting.

This new system is EASIER to defend, my wallets have never been so fat from null sec isk, but Aegis SOV has sucked the 'awesome' out of the game. For some reason, some people think the opposition is about not liking change, or not wanting to adapt, or losing. But we HAVE all adapted , and no one of consequence has lost anything..

Dominion was only occasionally fun (while being heart breaking, I was in NCDot when Goons kicked us out of Tribute, didn't want that region anyways), Aegis is no fun at all..

In the grand scheme of life it's not a big deal however, and hell, we survived 6 years of the badness that was Dominion, we can survive another 6 years till CCP realizes that this one sucks too...undoubtedly after more inevitable personnel changes lol. But the ability to survive a bad situation doesn't make that situation any less bad.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2015-08-19 13:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Fozziesov is not engaging for the average fleet member, who has to wait around while the magical sov hackers do all the work.


TL;DR: fozziesov not attractive for the average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1.

system working as intended.


I suppose you will edit your post out when a brighter crayon in the box you are in points it out to you that Reagalan is not some "average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1"

I will give you bonus points if you turn out to be some backwater PvE wormholer or a high-sec Noctis salvager, because you do certainly demonstrate the prerequisite mental faculties for being either of the two.



as to my mental faculties, thanks for the vote of confidence regarding wormhole pve. not a bad playstyle


Yeah, as I pointed out, I knew you were writing cheques (arguments about null sov) that your body cannot cash (and being someone who exclusively does wh PvE at the same time). Well, I trust you will be able to find a wormhole PvE thread by yourself then?
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#358 - 2015-08-19 13:09:00 UTC
Tallardar wrote:


The last time any major space battle was reported by non-gaming sites focusing on EVE was in February 2014. That was 18 months ago and no one has even tried or attempted to create another major battle on that scale between then and now.


No one has deliberately tried however during that last Delve campaign prior to N3 collapsing, there were a ton of opportunities to create an even bigger capital fight if PL+N3 had decided to have a go. Many of us were certainly hoping there would be.

Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2015-08-19 13:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.


Ah yes. Where goons reigned supreme with the Blob or GTFO tactics on, well on everything. How about no.


I'm sorry as an EX HERO member myself.. an EX fighter Against your Group when I lived in Providence.. You people Blob as much as goons back when you didn't murder your membership numbers with bad ideas. Back when Brave Newbies was a classy and respectable group with great ideologies. Back when every MAJOR power bloc started rolling out their own versions of Brave Dojo because they RESPECT how BNI was handling things. When Powerblocs started changing how they handled things internally into the ways BNI handled them. Lets not Forget the Brave we all knew, Loved, respected, mocked, faught, and cheered forward to great heights.

Brave was becoming Goonswarm 2.0 until you failscaded due to EGO. Hubris led to the downfall of your great alliance, it's many coupes, its abandonment of great corporations, lets not forget about the Internal Destruction of the Hopefully Effective Rookie Organization (H.E.R.O). But let us make no Mistake.. BNI was BLOB or GTFO when it's members Enjoyed logging in.


Well since he does not realize what you pointed out, I'd say he is spy alt of someone else that mainly dabbles in unrelated playstyle to sov null who just came to this thread to post with a GRR GON bias.

He probably wanted to post with a plausible alt that looked like he is vested in sov null, but he did not realize making such a contradictory claim would break the illusion he wanted to create initially. And therefore, hilarity ensued.

And the funniest part is, our official stance has never been against an occupancy sov system as an idea, and we did not lash out against this certain sov system. Yet, people of questionable mental faculties continue to associate the clear and present major community backlash as 'Goon objections'.

TL;DR is, he is not Brave. He is either a NPC null player who has absolutely no interest in maintaining and developing space assets (as he doesn't want to fight for them) or he plays in either wormholes, lowsec or highsec exclusively and ironically pitches himself as an expert on sov null.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#360 - 2015-08-19 13:09:39 UTC
Tish Magev wrote:
Well that was a waste of a wall of text.

Literally changes nothing.

I can't believe that ANY null sec dwelling player/corp/alliance/coalition likes FozzieSov, or finds it generates content in anyway, in fact I'm pretty sure they don't.

Nullsec is pretty much completely devoid of content, no one is going to invade anyone because who wants to play Sov mining, and less and less alliances are even bothering to defend space when some randomer decides to toss it, because again sov just isn't worth the ballache of this mechanic.

All the best CCP, let's see how much (positive) media attention EvE gets when no one's fighting anymore.

EvE, your PvP content isn't good enough to be ignoring the mass-PvP element of the game, this isn't WOW.

All nullsec alliances should just go back to highsec, cos well there isn't any content in null anymore anyway, let the scrubs that think fozziesov is a good idea deal with it for a while.


FozzieSov CAN be good with A LOT of tweaking.

Ditch the Small group / low number 4-5 man mentality. Shift it to 10-20.

Set the links to a larger ship. Your hacking Command Nodes... Put it on the Battlecruiser and Command Ship and put back use to the Command Ship. It's been replaced by Tech3s as boosters for the most part. Give the Command ship a use for Sov warfare again. Battlecruisers can use Tech 1 Entosis, Tech 2 Entosis is for the Command Ships which are specialized with a new role for the faster elimination of enemy Infrastructure networks. This would also help put the aging Battlecruiser hulls back into active use in warfare in Sov.

If you do make it a higher SP/ISK ship, REMOVE the External Repping limit. Put Fleet and Squad mechanics back into taking squads. I have friends who flip sov solo. That isn't warfare.. thats just ... for lack of any better wording.. stupid.

The Entosis Link disabled Warping away due to its activation, have the field disrupt Micro warp drives when attempting to be activated while in Conjunction of the Entonsis Link. This further commits the fight and brings small battles and local content. This could also escalate into larger fights the players seem to call for (people miss Tidi that much I guess...)

Reduce Command nodes slightly then keep the rest of FozzieSov as it is. Time frames, Freeporting. Stays the same. The Structure grind is gone, the faster system flipping is in place. People will rush to go take a chance at Destroying a larger ship types. I know I won't chase down Ceptors, I will bust my ass to drop an Nighthawk or EOS.

In the end FozzieSov fighting will bring fights locally again. Small skirmishes would have chances of Escalating into **** storm fights with people not wanting to lose a command ship if one was fielded. The Larger Battlecruiser hulls would start appearing outside of Kitchen sink fleets again. Players will undock and go chase several systems over to attack a squad comp built over protecting a BC/Command ship. If not, the sov still flips as intended in the same time shorter frame.