These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#2001 - 2015-07-12 19:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

That seems a rather long and involved process.

Why not just - add private militia to the LP stores, which can then be hired by a player (eg. During a wardec)

The NPC militia would then set standings for your war targets or people you have a kill right for, to -10 and attack them anytime they enter systems where that NPC faction or Corp operates?

Run them with the new AI so they are more than just a navy or faction police.

That would seem to achieve what you want and fit in with existing systems.

PS. Sorry for the quote.


That would not:

- add new PvE content
- difficult minmaxing of new PvE content (random missions would be tied to data unknown to the player; FAI, NPCs could react to known fits of the player taking the mission... or not)
- allow player generated PvE content (there would no mission without a player tryign to load a I-NPC, and the mission would be randomzied considering the player generating it, the player targetted and the player undertaking the mission... that's why thorugh testing would be necessary, but that's built in in every procedural/random game system)


So what you want is really just more of the same kinds of missions that already exist, which is then somehow new PvE?

Seems a rather bland approach to me, but that may be because I see all PvE as bland and uninteresting.

At the moment, from what I read from your post, it doesn't seem that the missions would be new at all, just more of essentially the same thing, only providing some different types of rewards; but which would also require a huge departure from existing systems.

On top of that, with the only difference being about the rewards for completing missions, those rewards are way OP. You are essentially wanting mechanics that prevent another player from playing the game at all for a set period of time, not through choice of theirs, but through mechanics. That is a pretty screwed up outcome. No one should be prevented from playing the game by the mechanics.

But that could just be the way I read it.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2002 - 2015-07-12 19:56:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... Some claim that it should lead to the existing player generated content (like, Jenshae). ...
I do?
I have suggested before that I would like missions that require teams.
Not so rewarding as to be farmed.
Rewarding enough to tempt new players.
Jump gates limiting the ships used.
Incentives to reach out and know the people around you, work with them, so you can form groups that actually do somethings.
Rather than sit back and spoon feed solo mission after solo mission into their eyes while avoiding anything risky.
I disagree with you on most things but this? This adds content and encourages players to be social and work together, as such I consider it to be a reasonable suggestion. +1

Chunks self serving and overly complicated stuff? Not so much.
Cheers.
(You also got the 2000th post)
Keeping on topic, I do think that a focus on teaming up, giving newbie corps a recourse (like White Knight boards) and such are a way to help fix the numbers.

Give the players tools to work together.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2003 - 2015-07-12 19:59:04 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

But that could just be the way I read it.


No, that's about how I read it too, although I was characteristically less kind about it.

It's just another variation of the "Gankerz should go to jail!" whine that has been around forever.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2004 - 2015-07-12 20:03:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

But that could just be the way I read it.


No, that's about how I read it too, although I was characteristically less kind about it.

It's just another variation of the "Gankerz should go to jail!" whine that has been around forever.
I don't know who to blame for inspiring the other, Chunks or Tears.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2005 - 2015-07-12 20:11:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... Some claim that it should lead to the existing player generated content (like, Jenshae). ...
I do?
I have suggested before that I would like missions that require teams.
Not so rewarding as to be farmed.
Rewarding enough to tempt new players.
Jump gates limiting the ships used.
Incentives to reach out and know the people around you, work with them, so you can form groups that actually do somethings.
Rather than sit back and spoon feed solo mission after solo mission into their eyes while avoiding anything risky.
I disagree with you on most things but this? This adds content and encourages players to be social and work together, as such I consider it to be a reasonable suggestion. +1

Chunks self serving and overly complicated stuff? Not so much.
Cheers.
(You also got the 2000th post)
Keeping on topic, I do think that a focus on teaming up, giving newbie corps a recourse (like White Knight boards) and such are a way to help fix the numbers.

Give the players tools to work together.
You want the "opposition" to get better tools to learn how to be an actual opposition? That's fine, but CCP isn't needed for that. What am I missing here?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2006 - 2015-07-12 20:17:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

But that could just be the way I read it.


No, that's about how I read it too, although I was characteristically less kind about it.

It's just another variation of the "Gankerz should go to jail!" whine that has been around forever.
I don't know who to blame for inspiring the other, Chunks or Tears.


Just want to note, that rewards for using I-NPCs could be literally anything, new or old. Affecting players is the biggest reward in EVE so it would be interesting that it was included with the package.

Also in my opinion it makes sense to provide PvErs with a way to PvP without giving up to PvE (peacedec vs wardec), but that's just my opinion. Maybe I've been told too many times to play in a certain way or go away. Blink

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2007 - 2015-07-12 20:27:05 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Also in my opinion it makes sense to provide PvErs with a way to PvP without giving up to PvE


And of course the end goal of every irredeemable carebear, the ability to have their cake and eat it too, while merriy plunking away shooting red crosses in complete safety.

Yes, Chunks, if you want to negatively effect other people directly, you might have to move an iota outside of your silly little niche. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2008 - 2015-07-12 21:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yes, Chunks, if you want to negatively effect other people directly, you might have to move an iota outside of your silly little niche. Roll
Never going to happen, Chunks is so entrenched in her comfort zone that it has a Homer crease.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jenshae Chiroptera
#2009 - 2015-07-12 23:57:43 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#2010 - 2015-07-13 00:30:40 UTC
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2011 - 2015-07-13 08:11:15 UTC
lots of ppl blaming other ppl.

just try to discuss without going ad hominem.
seems really difficult for gd.

i would like even silly or outraging ideas for brainstorming.
more pve does not turn eve into a theme park, nor does beginnerprotection.
AND i would like some good pvp ideas, not the squealing kind.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2012 - 2015-07-13 10:29:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.

People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2013 - 2015-07-13 11:00:38 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

AND i would like some good pvp ideas, not the squealing kind.


Indeed, not only PvE but also PvP could have more variation...

Lets see what we have now...

1. (a bit boring) gate/wh camps, would count station games in this gategory too

2. Big F1 hitting fights with a (potentially huge) lag (atleast until now, what comes with new sov system and "big fights" remains to be seen)

3. Suprising and killing miners, explorers and missioners in high/low/null sec (haulers too, but guess they go to gate camps mostly)

4. Roaming gangs in low/null, possibly with cyno

5. Professional wardecking on purpose of "griefing" (destroying high sec POS´s and so on), with either certain target in mind or just randomly looking around for victims

6. Factional Warfare militia vs. militia (time spent with timers or fighting non-militia members mostly)

7. New (entosis fights around) timer based sov mechanics in few days when new sov starts, similar to FW but there is only 4 hour window daily to do it




Did I miss anything?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2014 - 2015-07-13 14:06:07 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.
People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.
I would say that a newbie corp spending a week trying to find someone to help them during a week long war dec that results in a week of play denial or the destruction of their group is entirely plausible.
Where as if they can press a button and see a list of people to contact in game ...

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2015 - 2015-07-13 14:21:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Also in my opinion it makes sense to provide PvErs with a way to PvP without giving up to PvE


And of course the end goal of every irredeemable carebear, the ability to have their cake and eat it too, while merriy plunking away shooting red crosses in complete safety.

Yes, Chunks, if you want to negatively effect other people directly, you might have to move an iota outside of your silly little niche. Roll


With the kind of world view that psoter displays, you know that is impossible. Their limitation is internal, nothing external (like the wisdom of others) will ever have an effect.

What he wants already exists. For example, if you use a Mobil depot to fit warp core stabs and know which gates to take in "The MAZE" (Guristas DED 10/10) you can bypass the 1st 4 rooms easily and just kill the station in the 5th. This means that any one who wants to kill you have to fly through 4 rooms of killer dps and scrams to get at you. several times I've done this only to see play ship wrecks on d-scan lol. I used PVE to protect me from PVP.

You can do the same with some missions if you have the right key in your ship, and in low and null you can do it with gate and belt sansha incursion npcs if you know what you are doing. I have intentionally run through low sec incursions to shake off people who were chasing me. Hell, you can do it in null anomalies by planting a bubble on the anom beacon and MJDing away, gankers who warp at range to that anom get pulled in, way away from you, and you get to warp out safely.

This ALOD guy almost pulled it off with lvl 5 missions.

If you are the kind of person with a compatible worldview, you can already use PVE to PVP people. This is why the Istanchuks of the game will never do it, their worldview is based on the idea that someone owes them something therefore it's someone else who should make things happen for them.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2016 - 2015-07-13 14:25:19 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.

People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.


I don't know anything about the market quickbar but I'm pretty sure I can still be usefull...
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2017 - 2015-07-13 14:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.

People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.


I don't know anything about the market quickbar but I'm pretty sure I can still be usefull...

Not what I said. I'm sure you are perfectly capable of figuring it out yourself, though you have no need.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2018 - 2015-07-13 14:38:11 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.
People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.
I would say that a newbie corp spending a week trying to find someone to help them during a week long war dec that results in a week of play denial or the destruction of their group is entirely plausible.
Where as if they can press a button and see a list of people to contact in game ...

Not sure i follow. A newbie corp that can't defend itself shouldn't exist. The CEO is to blame for that and the loss of new players coming from it, because he doesn't teach the game properly

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2019 - 2015-07-13 14:48:41 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... What am I missing here?
Information a newbie will know when they need it and before they quit.
Many people don't know how the Fit button and Market Quickbar work.

People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.



Yeah, you see all those graphs about user numbers dropping, the financials where CCP laid off half their employees and moved to smaller offices. Yep, that is the attitude, and probably the largest contributor to our decline.

Superiority complex of the veteran gamer.

PS. When they overhauled the UI over the course of my decade of playing this game, it had taken many people a good amount of time to find the locations or memorize the new icons. People aren't useless because they were just handed a Globe and told to plot a course from their location to Hong Kong using nothing but highspeed rail. People are useless when you segment them and disenfranchise them into a group that you are not willing to help because you think you are better then they are.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2020 - 2015-07-13 14:54:52 UTC
So why do these people need it easier than the tens of thousands before them?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE