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This is a nice idea for Covert ops ships, making the decloak range 3k with ab on and 4k with MWD on would work quite nicely.
It would give real flexibility to the scouting role. However, On anything other than a covert ops, the bonus would have the potential to be "unfortunate".......

Encouraging individual participation:


Oh so it wasn't because slowcats could have perfect alpha to blow up dreads with the press of one button?



Yeah sure I'm gonna put the life of my fleet into the hands of somebody else! xD And this somebody else will have a terrible time because he will die quickly and then its the end of the fleet for him. Awesome.

Besides, this doesn't increase fleet participation at all. Before your input was "Take fleet warp", then "Hit Jump". So you were hitting one button once every warp.

Now you have to wait for the scout to warp, then press a button, then wait for the scout to warp, then press a button. Its the same pace. You are just doing things much more slowly.





I'm completely on-board with that, but why didn't you just nerf combat probing and bombing instead??

What about you make the gain MORE FUN instead of MORE BORING for a change? Do you realize you are a GAME developper?

We already have to wait frikin HOURS with the jump changes and now we will have to wait for every single warp that we do in null because we have to warp to perches to avoid bombs and pipebombs and we have to wait for the scout to land before doing anything?



Yeah no kidding, more power to kiting ships. Yaaay......

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Besides, these changes do not even bring alliance bookmarks and/or better reliability of corp bookmarks, like a FIXED syncronization delay for EVERYONE. To avoid situations where half the people have it and half don't... I mean its only a string of xyz coordinates how hard can it be? People send so much character strings to so many different people instantaneously in Jita local, don't tell me this is harder than making a syncronous chat work?

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You know what would be cool? If you don't want to buff bookmarks syncronization, let the fleet FC manually dictate XYZ coordinates on a bookmark to a fleet, and give the fleet the ability to initiate a warp to XYZ coordinates. THERE YOU HAVE YOUR INDIVUAL PLAYER PARTICIPATION.

To quote The Big Lebowski, "You're killing your father, Larry."

Sorry, Larrikin. You are still off the mark. We have tried to tell you any number of things to make Eve a better, more engaging game. 90+ pages of feedback (although admittedly about 43 pages of that was Baltec trolling).

The challenge in Eve needs to come from the opposing players, not making it harder and more tedious to do basic things in game.

Listen to Reagalan, Arrendis, Alexis Nightwish, Altrue, etc. These people actually know a thing or two about playing Eve in the current environment. They are not blinded by contempt for the average Eve player.

We all would love to see changes that make Eve more exciting - less tedious. Changes that make Eve more fun to play - less of a chore. Your changes are not achieving that goal.

It takes a very big man to admit that he is wrong. No one will think less of you if you come up with a better solution than this halfhearted concession, which does not even come close to addressing the heart of the matter.

As I said before, you want to increase participation... What is the difference between fleet warping the fleet to a scout and fleet warping the fleet to a bookmark? How is that anything other than a tedious, nonsensical role? I've already mastered the art of sitting cloaked 200km off a gate to act as a bookmark.

How is your goal better than making fleets a maximum of fifty players? And or just making it so you can only squad warp. Each of those changes requires many more highly engaged players than your proposal. The former drastically changes the makeup and composition of every large fleet - in a positive direction. It automatically makes Logistics less powerful in large fleets, without huge nerfs to them as a ship class.

How do your changes make sniper doctrines, apart from Slippery Petes, more viable?

How is making each fleet operation take longer to move from Point A to Point B make the game more engaging? I already have to budget 3-4 hours for a single strategic operation, which may or may not result in a fight. That doesn't count the time I spent preparing as an FC.

To paraphrase Altrue, "make the game more fun to play." Not more time-consuming. Not more tedious.

Much better

Tho now your missing the point of why some people use fleet warp, its to make ships land at the same time. You pretty much have the code since you can now broadcast to bookmark, might as well just go all the way.

Yes you can "just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list".


Combat scanning is in a good place, when you don't already know your targets location. Players who are good at scanning down a ship 'somewhere in system' are valued by corporations, alliances and FC's alike.
Combat scanning is broken very easy & fast when your on-grid with your target.

While increasing the time it takes to scan targets down would have achieved our 2nd (long-range fleets) and 3rd goals (bombing runs), it wouldn't do anything for our 1st goal (player participation), and it would break system-wide combat scanning.


You can't broadcast a probe result as a Warp-to now, so it won't be broadcastable after the changes.


The delay is unrelated to corporate bookmark propagation delay. We'll tell everyone the delay between creating a bookmark and broadcasting it soon! =)
Any member of the fleet will be able to warp to the broadcast, regardless of corporate or alliance membership.


1. You can fleet-warp to a fleet member as you can now.
2. You can not fleet-warp to a personal bookmark or probe result. Instead, you can broadcast that bookmark and fleet members can warp themselves. Or a fleet member can warp to the bookmark, then you can fleet-warp to the fleet member.
3. You can't fleet-warp to broadcast bookmarks.


AT XII Rules : Warping within the arena is NOT allowed.

Onslaughtor, I'm still reading Larrikin's response above, and sounds like my biggest issue (broadcasting to bookmarks is useless for NPSI) is addressed, will adjust my post accordingly after finishing reading. It's an improvement, but my concerns remain.

Combat probing, in the previous iteration, was done without much complaint, aside from the interesting way you had to deploy probes. 40 seconds was ok and allowed for both probing off-grid ships and on-grid ships. Currently, I can have a probe result on just about any comp before the targets are able to control their ship from the warp tunnel, that, to me, is not "in a good place".

Bombing runs are highly effective because you can get to the target fast as they are all balled up after coming out of warp and unable to control their ships to align or re-warp prior to bombers already en route. This change will increase the viability of comps simply by allowing them time to not only align but to get defensive measures up and running before a bomber fleet is in warp to the target. Other improvements could be made to how fast ships enter/leave warp so they don't have to wait as long for control of their ship to return. Modifications to how bombs do damage is another way you could improve survivability of ships like reducing the damage of a bomb as you get further from the epicenter or enacting a system of penetration/resistance depending upon weapon system and hull size that I've personally floated.

On your goal of addressing player participation, I believe that increasing the scan probe times would allow those newer or interceptor pilots to learn to pilot their ships and act as pings/warpins on fleets because there will be times when it's far more efficient to have an interceptor move to a spot 100km behind a target for a warpin. In a way, your change only really gives probers the added benefit (those skilled in a niche path) whereas there will be more calls for those newbie's in smaller, more agile ships to work as warp-in providers. Thus being more useful at lower skill points...which is what I assume you want.

i'm concerned when the "improvements" being made to the game involve taking away features and making things more tedious

Awsome !
That responds to many certain "fears" here i'm sure.

Quick point of order: could you make probe results broadcastable, but on the same delay as bookmarks?

If I am reading this correctly, the behavior will be doable by making bookmarks of your probe results anyways. Allowing a broadcast of probe results on the same delay accomplishes the same desired behavior, but frees probers from having to create a bunch of temporary bookmarks and name them in the heat of battle (or outside of the heat of battle.) It's a Quality of Life thing and nothing else.