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Wealth per hour comparison- Need Info

Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#101 - 2015-05-27 13:15:09 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
A year ago I was ratting with a carrier in drone lands wiht Level 4(!!!) skills and an ESS: http://i.imgur.com/EDFumnc.png
That is 155 ISK/h with a char that does ~2700dps, All V would have been ~3500 dps. Though, to be hornest I did _a lot_ of micromangedment and optimizing. Never half ass something when you can whole ass something.

Did the scan res change nerv the income so hard down? Or why does OP say 90mil/h?

Edit: What is wrong with that Market McSelling Alt?


Not everyone uses a Thanatos, and I think the op tries to stay realistic by low balling all of the isk/hr projections. you notice he says 70-150 mil an hour for high sec incursions. I know for a fact that's low, I do better than that every night I fly with TVP.

As for what's wrong wit Market McSelling Alt, this is a good start, the truth of the existence of the combat PVE rewards imbalances EVe online currently suffers from probably challenges some key points of his world view, creating the intensely irrational denials you see in this thread. It's a personal problem.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-05-27 14:11:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#103 - 2015-05-27 14:19:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.


It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol.

Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :)
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#104 - 2015-05-27 15:42:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.


It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol.

Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :)


Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-05-27 15:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.


Train time just for a Basilisk at Logi 5 = 65 days

Train time for just T2 guns = 39 days (add another 9 days for Battlship skill level of 4)

I left out the shield skills because those should be the same train time for DPS or Logi. Actually, for logi you would have to train the shield remote repper and cap transfers; so kinda adds a little more train time.

Bottomline: Logistics takes longer.

Caveat: However, if you are training for a carrier, logistics is a no brainer to train for.

Edit: In the past, logistics was a faster train than T2 large guns.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#106 - 2015-05-28 00:09:31 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.


It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol.

Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :)


Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone



Yeah, Jenn completely ignores the fact that logi wait times have been long during most EU/US hours and that a 2bil vindi will get passed up for a 5bil vindi every time in TVP.

Also if you fly that 2bil vindi month after month the FCs are going to bust your balls about not going advanced fit.

Also, every night this weekend I averaged 120mil hour, fleets were small for some reason and we had nothing but TPPH all night Monday. But let's not ignore facts.

PS... nice snip about not everyone flying Thanny's. You are right, some fly Ishtars and a few mil per hour less. Love the Mom's Basement Psychology too.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2015-05-28 11:01:30 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And you ignore that fact that not everyone is in a 5 bil Vindicator. My TVP "intermediate" lvl Mach costs 2 bil, and my buddy who just returned to the game and has started doing Incursions with TVP is flying a Basilisk. A Basilisk in high sec in microscopically low danger makes as much isk for an individual pilot as a Carrier does at risk in null sec.




The sillyest part about the basi is how so many people won't train for logi so the queu time (at elast when I ran incursion) were usually much lower so you start getting payout faster.


It's still the same, my buddy hadn't played in 3 years and had only been back for a week when I encouraged him to try Incursions seeing as his alt has Logi 5. We got on the wait list at the same time that night and he was in fleet 17 minutes before I was lol.

Of course I was in a Mach, I'm training guns for a Vindicator now :)


Logi does not get fleet faster, i completly stopped using my logi pilot since a normal wait is 1-2hours where my mach is in fleet after 30min-1hr! This change depending on what time it is tho, so logi may be better for your timezone



Yeah, Jenn completely ignores the fact that logi wait times have been long during most EU/US hours and that a 2bil vindi will get passed up for a 5bil vindi every time in TVP.

Also if you fly that 2bil vindi month after month the FCs are going to bust your balls about not going advanced fit.

Also, every night this weekend I averaged 120mil hour, fleets were small for some reason and we had nothing but TPPH all night Monday. But let's not ignore facts.

PS... nice snip about not everyone flying Thanny's. You are right, some fly Ishtars and a few mil per hour less. Love the Mom's Basement Psychology too.


120m/hr is the same as 3.1 site/hr or 19m15s payout-payout using 1000isk/LP
Devasha Detrasha
Doomheim
#108 - 2015-05-28 11:17:52 UTC
[quote=Padegejas]Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way.

Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more.
[/quo

Could you please accept my NM into your fleets?
l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#109 - 2015-05-28 11:43:18 UTC
Oh yeha, I read OP again. He wants to know stuff with average skills and not max.
Though my Thanatos example was with Carrier IV and only 4 DCUs.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#110 - 2015-05-28 11:43:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Warmonger Simon wrote:
Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed.


Perfectly well said.

I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready.

And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now.


So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#111 - 2015-05-28 11:49:38 UTC
Shey Nabali wrote:
PowerFromHouwer wrote:
Miali Askulf wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.


L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well.

250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account.


Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible



In about 3-4 hours(I took breaks here and there and wasn't really tracking it that closely) last night, I made a little over 1.4 million LP with two characters running missions. I used a single faction standing pulling alt to pull missions, and ran them with a thanatos. I cashed out the LP at about 550 isk per LP, so around 800m isk. I was running them pretty slowly, as it was the first time I had run them in months, most people I know would have made closer to 3m LP in the same amount of time.

250/m hour is EASY, and double that is absolutely achievable.

EDIT: I don't really count isk/character because I use both pilots regularly for PvP.


Hmm, can 2 Armor tanked NM's with link bonuses do LV 5's? What about 2 RR Domis?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#112 - 2015-05-28 12:48:35 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed.


Perfectly well said.

I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready.

And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now.


So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid.
[/quote[

Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#113 - 2015-05-28 12:51:37 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions.



You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#114 - 2015-05-28 12:52:10 UTC
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Shey Nabali wrote:
PowerFromHouwer wrote:
Miali Askulf wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.


L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well.

250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account.


Indeed, i'm missing the number of characters part. But getting 250 mil an hour with 2 chars in tengu's is quite rare. 200 mil is more plausible



In about 3-4 hours(I took breaks here and there and wasn't really tracking it that closely) last night, I made a little over 1.4 million LP with two characters running missions. I used a single faction standing pulling alt to pull missions, and ran them with a thanatos. I cashed out the LP at about 550 isk per LP, so around 800m isk. I was running them pretty slowly, as it was the first time I had run them in months, most people I know would have made closer to 3m LP in the same amount of time.

250/m hour is EASY, and double that is absolutely achievable.

EDIT: I don't really count isk/character because I use both pilots regularly for PvP.


Hmm, can 2 Armor tanked NM's with link bonuses do LV 5's? What about 2 RR Domis?


Easily. Just don't forget the "get out of jail free" card (Large Micro Jump Drive) lol. I've done lvl 5 missions with 2 RR Domis giving each other cap, but it's slow.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#115 - 2015-05-28 12:53:24 UTC
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions.



You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please?


http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&sid=dbc987717bfc91eb8f7f6940e1f60b06 This thread is still relevant though times have changed a bit.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2015-05-28 13:04:49 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Lowsec
Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk


It is perfectly possible to regulary rat in lowsec, i don't see why it'd be so different from nullsec unless you are only talking about friendly nullsec sov, which is not representative of all what null sec has to offer : you can also ninja rat in nullsec, or play in NPC nullsec. Let's be more precise.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#117 - 2015-05-28 13:04:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions.



You do missions in FW? I thought it was another form of PVP were you fight against other players who represent either Amarr or Minmatar. Can you give me an explanation on what kind of missions you do in FW along with the drawbacks please?


http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&sid=dbc987717bfc91eb8f7f6940e1f60b06 This thread is still relevant though times have changed a bit.


Thank you Jenn, I have 2 chars I'm training for missles atm and I now know what I'm gonna use them for. I just have to make sure they stay clear of my mains who run high sec missions as their standings (and reputations) are gonna be terribleTwisted.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#118 - 2015-05-28 13:10:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed.


Perfectly well said.

I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready.

And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now.


So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid.
[/quote[

Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol.


well I was preparing to use a Sleipnir and Legion for C3/C4's but wasn't sure if I should daytrip or live in one. Is it better to daytrip at first or just set up a large POS in one?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#119 - 2015-05-28 13:24:31 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Lowsec
Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk


It is perfectly possible to regulary rat in lowsec, i don't see why it'd be so different from nullsec unless you are only talking about friendly nullsec sov, which is not representative of all what null sec has to offer : you can also ninja rat in nullsec, or play in NPC nullsec. Let's be more precise.


low sec ratting doesn't happen in bulk the way it does in sov null and wormhole space which is what the OP is saying.. "Good" anomalies are rare in low sec, though it is possible to spam them for escalations. And of course, low sec and npc null anoms don't respawn in the same place, so once you clear out a system of anomalies you either have to move on wait and hope for a lucky "natural spawn".

And "friendly null sec sov" ratting is the norm, that activity contributes something like 78% of all raw isk bounties in the game. The stuff you are talking about makes no sense.


Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#120 - 2015-05-28 13:26:54 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Warmonger Simon]Carry mobile depot and refit as needed, 1k dps tank is not needed in 90% of C3 sites. ~600-700 will do most just fine so swapping one drone link aug in a place is always a possibility/losing one of relays for drone damage mod. If you're doing normal anomalies only 740 is max tank you'll need given you don't shoot triggers first. As far as drones go yes correct i placed 2x augumented hammers in there for fitting purposes , sometimes they get targeted but with gilas bonus their ehp is huge and you'll have no problem recalling them in case that's needed.


Perfectly well said.

I bring a mix of tech 2 hammerheads and Fed navy Hammerheads. The faction drones tank like a sumbitch with gila bonuses , worth a little less paper DPS. Hell, that Gila is a champ in a fight with people too, I escaped like 3 time by popping in warp core stabs and medium neuts (had some help from sleeperss switching aggro too lol) ALWAYS have a Mobil depot deployed and ready.

And always have the right stuff in cargo, cloak, probe launcher and probes, cargo expanders, warp core stabs, ammo (duh), scanning modules, Mobil tractor, and i'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'm not in game right now.


So you're saying a Friggin Gila can solo C3's and I didn't have to wait that additional 6 months until my Legion was fully trained huh? Not to mention that It's much cheaper (270 mill vs 550 mill) and doesn't lose SP if popped. Yea this thread is making me feel inadequate and very stupid.
[/quote[

Don't feel bad, I took watching random youtube vids for me to figure it out lol. Me and a freind dive in to C4s in double Gilas from time to time, but it gets scary lol.


well I was preparing to use a Sleipnir and Legion for C3/C4's but wasn't sure if I should daytrip or live in one. Is it better to daytrip at first or just set up a large POS in one?


I day trip. Can't be arsed to plant a pos that will just get reinforced when I ain't looking lol.

And this is my favorite video of a solo Gila in a wormhole. I stole his Gila fit lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIQWeUfBJIY