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Wealth per hour comparison- Need Info

Author
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-03-04 02:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
I'm working on an evaluation of wealth generation across most activities in Eve- excluding industry.

The purpose of this is to identify how much ISK is actually made across various forms of active or AFK work in each area of space. I can only speak for the null incomes per hour and a little bit of the highsec income values, so input from people experienced in various forms of income would be appreciated.

The below is evaluating average wealth generation, not just raw ISK obtained from these activities. This is assuming you have the average skills required to do each activity proficiently. Max skills or being under skilled will make different amounts.

Nullsec
Drone Subcaps*: 40-60 mil per hour, possible escalations. Many escalations are not worth doing because of the buff to drops and escalation chance. Reliant on good sites (forsaken hubs/havens/sanctums) to be reliable.
Drone Carriers*: 90 mil per hour. Much higher risk, but more income possible from carriers over subcaps.
Active Ratting*: 90-120 mil per hour depending on skills. Assumes properly skilled battleship or pimped t3 cruiser.
*note: income per hour varies downwards depending on number of sites available, hostiles, etc.
Ice Mining: 40-50 mil per hour. 50-70 mil per hour in a hulk (but using a hulk is a pretty awful idea)
Ore Mining: 30-50 mil per hour. 40-70 mil per hour in a hulk (see above)
Exploration: Estimated 40-50 mil per hour. Varies wildly, especially if others are also exploring. Can hit it big or not hit anything for an extended time.
Combat Exploration: Estimated 90-120 mil per hour. Depends on drops and escalations. This is different from standard exploration because you're looking solely for combat sites with favorable drops.
Salvaging: 20-40 mil per hour. Assumes following someone else ratting. Can be done as a few day old newbee.
Missions: 100-150 mil per hour. Possibly more with blitzing. Requires npc null space with missions.
Incursions: Usually around 90-120 mil per hour. Requires incursions, most null incursions don't run full efficient fleets like highsec.

Lowsec
Missions: 100-250 mil per hour. Assuming level 5 missions or faction missions.
Mining: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk
Ratting: Doesn't happen in bulk because of the risk
Exploration: Estimated 20-40 mil per hour. See above with null.
Combat Exploration: Estimated 90-120 mil per hour. Depends on drops and escalations. This is different from standard exploration because you're looking solely for combat sites with favorable drops. Roughly the same as nullsec.
Incursions:100-200? mil per hour. Requires a consistent group and waiting time. Please correct me on this.
Faction Warfare: 50-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly with faction levels, luck, etc. Consider hostiles as well.

Highsec
Ratting: negligible
Ice Mining: 20-30 mil per hour. Assuming hauler and perfect boosts.
Ore Mining: 10-20 mil per hour. Same as above.
Missions: 40-70 mil per hour. Assuming average 1000 isk/lp payout.
Blitzing Missions: 90-120 mil per hour. Same as above.
Incursions: 70-150 mil per hour. Requires an incursion. Requires wait time and a good fleet.
Faction Warfare: negligible
Exploration: negligible

Wormholes
C6 sites*: 400+ mil per hour. Varies wildly requiring escalations, etc.
C5 sites*: 200-400+mil per hour. Requires finding appropriate sites and a hole out of your staging.
C3/C4 sites*: 100-300+mil per hour. See above
C2/C1 sites*: Roughly nullsec income, better to do c3+
Data/Relic sites*: 70-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly depending on luck.
Gas Mining*: 50-100 mil per hour. Requires appropriate gas sites, gas varies wildly. Can be done in a low skill Venture.
*Note: requires considerable logistics, scouts, etc. Income varies a considerable amount depending on activity and some luck.

I did not include activities such as market manipulation, ganking, and industry as those vary wildly depending on what you're doing.

Please comment in here if you have more accurate numbers or want to discuss a specific activity.
tyler274
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-03-04 03:17:36 UTC
Good formatting

Nice Topic

Gets point across

10/10 not shitpost
Ammutseba Gangulur
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-03-04 03:20:31 UTC
Quote:
Lowsec
Missions: 100-250 mil per hour. Assuming level 5 missions or faction missions.


Well ****, lets move back to Low Sec!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4 - 2015-03-04 04:12:34 UTC
Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP?

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-03-04 04:15:36 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP?

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee.


I'm happy to change that if more people confirm that the wealth rate is in fact that low per hour. I did some testing in a not huge level 4 mission area and was able to pull 90-120 an hour over 10 hours. That was in a Tengu. I hear that rattlesnakes are even better at blitzing but didn't test that out.

Edit: before ammo costs, obviously.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2015-03-04 04:54:18 UTC
Pretty good. From personal experience the lvl 5 mission estimate is a bit low but otherwise pretty close. Ditto high sec burner mission blitzing (which should not be a separate category, there are people who do nothing but burners).

I'm glad you used the term "wealth" instead of isk. Some people don't understand that isk faucets (like null anomaly bounties) aren't the only kinds of wealth in EVE online. LP and blue loot and OPEs ect are isk sinks but not 'wealth sinks'. The same people go ballistic when you talk about the poor relative state of null sec isk making compared to the rest of New Eden (and compared to the pre-Dominion past).

It's not impossible to make a 'living' in null, plenty of people do it and liquid isk from anoms + escalations has it's appeal, it just doesn't compare favorably overall to soooo many other individual pilot level PVE activities to the point where null is a Renters Desert composed of PVErs who either like null PVE to the point where they ignore the downsides, or novice PVE players who don't realize that they are losing isk doing null PVE when they could be in FW flying a FRIGATE sized ship (bomber) making up to 200 mil an hour or using another kind of FRIGATE sized ship (Faction frig or Assault frig) in high sec making close to the same blitzing burners.

Padegejas
Vite
#7 - 2015-03-04 07:49:38 UTC
Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way.

Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2015-03-04 13:32:27 UTC
Padegejas wrote:
Your information about high sec incursion wealth is not correct based on my personal experience. Your estimation of 70-150 mil per hour would be correct for VG fleet and evaluating pure isk income only. If you'll count LP you'll get at least 25 mil more counting 1200 isk per LP which is rate of wholesale buyers of Concord LP now days (you can get even more if you trade LP yourself and know how to do that). So it generates up to 175 mil/h that way.

Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk plus 50 mil for the LP, at rate of 1200 isk/lp, so it's about 230 isk/h. Sometimes, when the sites spawn very successfully it's possible to squeeze even more.


While I agree with everything you said, it's smarter to do what the OP did and lowball the estimate. That at least gives a nod to the fact that their are disruptions to incursions (moving, contests, lack of high sec incursions, waiting to get into fleet, etc).

The kind of isk I made flying with ISN and occasionally in TVP shiny fleets is only surpassed by blitzing lvl 5 missions or doing faction warfare missions under the right conditions so yea I know how crazy it can get, but in fairness it doesn't happen like that all the time.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#9 - 2015-03-04 13:40:27 UTC
added to favorites to reference for other activities

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-04 18:11:20 UTC
Padegejas wrote:


Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk...




6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system.
Sekhen Oni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-03-04 18:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sekhen Oni
The concept of "Exploration" probably needs clarification or sub-dividing.

If you exclusively look at Exploration as running Data and Relic sites, then the income for Hig-Sec is indeed negligible. However, if you include probing down combat sites and running them, the income can be quite respectable, given the right combination of factors. (The right ship/ammo for the rats you're fighting, the ability to race others if needed, the ability to pick the right areas, and knowledge of the sites and the triggers, to get to the ships dropping faction loot quickly).

If you're good, you can probably average out at 30-50 million/hr, but with substantial ups and downs.
Sekhen Oni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-03-04 18:27:03 UTC
Oh: Null Sec mining in a Hulk is absolutely fine if you (as you did for high sec) assume that a Hauler is involved.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-03-05 00:26:50 UTC
Assuming you have enough characters to get a supply of just burners (I do not) a burner for SOE returns 30 mill just in LP per mission.
Kaphrah
Thats my BOI
#14 - 2015-03-05 03:21:35 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Padegejas wrote:


Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk...




6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system.



DIN once pushed over seven, you just need a TCRC wall for it ~_~
also TVP and I guess ISN reached enormous numbers. If you get TCRC's you can easily push the pay to pay down to 7 minutes (yes, with warp). NRF's down to... dunno, 10-12 min, ISN was kinda faster there and TPPH 16-18min. All without contest, all you need is a good fleet composition and no tards.

Inb4 quoted post was troll
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-03-05 03:35:00 UTC
It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#16 - 2015-03-05 06:20:42 UTC
Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#17 - 2015-03-05 06:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Aplysia Vejun
Bah double post
Padegejas
Vite
#18 - 2015-03-05 08:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Padegejas
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Padegejas wrote:


Good HQ fleet generates about 180 mil./h of pure isk...




6 HQ sites an hour? You are a lying sack. An elite HQ fleet can push maybe 4 and possibly start into a 5th if there is zero competition with other fleets in the system.


It's really bad idea to insult others if you don't do it as fast as others and it can put you in really awkward situations Blink

But enough words - time for proofs: http://clip2net.com/s/3il6lCa
Miali Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-03-05 14:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Miali Askulf
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.


L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well.

250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2015-03-05 15:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Miali Askulf wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.


L5 mission income is hard to quantify - some are easy and crazy lucrative, a few are going to be very difficult without multiple pilots (which will reduce your isk/character of course) or a very quiet system and a carrier. The LP values are typically horrible compared to the easy ~2k/lp you can get in highsec as well.

250m/hour is possible for sure, but only with lucky mission rolls - quite a lot of the time you won't have something you can easily run solo and if you're using multiple characters, you should take that into account.


lvl 5 mission blitzing is no different than blitzing any other mission. If you have the standings, it's easy. I do it all the time, with 1 character, and 250 mil an hour only happens if I have to go afk for 30 minutes during that hour.

It takes knowing where to do the missions. finding a lvl 5 mission agent in low sec that has station systems adjacent. I have 1 carrier in the system where the agent is and 2 carriers in the systems next door. I never have to jump a gate or cyno. I decline missions that don't allow carriers (ie missions with gates) and I decline missions that isn't in one of the 3 systems I have carriers in.

With fit and fighters those 3 carriers cost my 6 bil. I made the isk for that in null sec and also day tripping into c3 wormhole sin a Gila. Best investment I ever made. I still do faction warfare missions in a purifier too (it's just crazy as hell to make 2-300 mil an hour with a stealthbomber, I accept like 8 missions at a time and make my way around to them then back home and cash out the LP when the time is right, tier 4 and above lol).

But back to l5 missions, luck has nothing to do with it, knowing how to blitz does.
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