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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#781 - 2015-05-19 05:16:33 UTC
Hey CCP.. can I get a discount on a sub if I only want to use the alt to cloaky camp systems since you're doing nothing about it.

hell i'll pvp indices to smithereens when fozzie-sov comes and in turn that will push folks out of null sec.. haha iWIN button.

I dare double dog, triple dog dare ccp to do something about cloaky camping.. cause welp.. its CCP.. if its broke its working as intended.. if its working too well then its broke and needs to full on team to rebalance it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#782 - 2015-05-19 07:00:16 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Jade Yanumano wrote:

I am a player that has been playing EVE since 2005. I am in agreement. I believe what CCP is trying to do is great, but the Sov changes they are putting in place regarding the sov being vulnerable for 4 to 8 hours a day is emptying null sec out a lot more. I remember CCP making a comment that EVE is in now way the representation of the way people thing or live their lives. I would prefer CCP rephrases that, because it is very untrue.

People become immersed into the game, their RL dramas left behind and their ideas and thoughts no matter how sadistic or not become part of the game.

With the new sov changes CCP Fozzie is introducing, i would say that null sec will lose even more numbers and probably already is. Generating more action is just something that is needed, with that i will agree. You can't have everyone carebear all the time and then stagnate the game to a point people quit due to boredom. There are many problems in EVE. One of many is the fact that CCP stated they trying to generate more fun fights and action in EVE, and also trying to allow smaller entities to have a piece of the pie. However, this is not the case, larger more stronger alliances are at it again. They push smaller entities to the point of simply quitting the game, as there are thousands that do not want to be in major 10k to 38k size powerblocs. They don't want to do massive fleets. They enjoy the small gang game play style.

Each time CCP makes a change they completely ignore one simple fact, a fact that has been apart of the human condition for thousands of years. That fact is, "I am a stronger caveman than you, join me or I beat you like rock". Then tie that in with the really sadistic minds of some of the people in EVE, well, that only spells bad news for any small entity. Even if its a small entity bent on trying to promote EVE and Null Sec and get more new players to join up and move to a null sec region designed to help build up the abilities of new players, so they can learn how to play the game in a different environment to high security space. Lets take Brave Collective for instance. They have lots of new players join them, teach them, show them the ropes. Some alliance are not as big as they are. Some try to show new players the fun side of a smaller scale way of having fun.

None of what CCP Fozzie has brought forward is of any interest to a new player willing to move to null sec and learn the ropes in a harder environment. At the present moment, numbers are dropping. I also get told, no, numbers are increasing and yet i don't see it. I had a GM tell me they are over 500k accounts. I really could not contain my laughter. CCP makes a big mistake relying purely on just the numbers and not the "active" numbers.

CCP states they cannot intervene nor interfere or they use the phrase, "we cannot directly affect the game". Well now, that is the funniest nonsense I have ever heard. By making certain changes to the game regarding mechanics, you are affecting the game. Due to the 4 to 8 hour timers you are implementing in the new sov changes, you directly affect the game. It forces alliances/coalitions to make every possible attempt to break up smaller entities and push them into joining a larger powerbloc and becoming nothing but a number. That is directly affecting the smaller gang game play style. I would also go as far as stating that CCP have not really changed much in terms of giving opportunities to smaller entities.

To be honest, there is a good chance CCP will lose a lot more "active" players. I myself personally have opened an account on other games like star********. LOL.

It is truly very sad that EVE has turned to this uninteresting, not fun, game. It was the biggest, best game in the world, that no one had the ability to top. Now CCP is just pushing people away, pushing the community away with some of the changes in the new upcoming patch. That has already been a dramatic drop in active players over the past 12 to 18 months. Thank you CCP for a great game, and thank you CCP Fozzie for your effort, but EVE is just no longer worth playing.


Terrible mechanics aside. It wasn't CCP that made nullsec stagnant, it was a small clique of players, and after fozziesov drops, they will do it all over again. Hell, they're at it already. Rebuilding the blue donut.


It's not a small clique of anything, it's people being people, human nature at work. People will take advantage of ANY situation, whether it's lawless space in an internet game or in real life (look at real life businesses using various laws and regulations to not only make a profit, but beat the crap out of their competition, hell, you don't even have to go that far, look at any High School lol)

Blaming it on a "few people" is an old and tired fallacy (and one usually offered by people who themselves have contributed to the problem but don't want to take any blame), the idea that "things would be great" if a handful of people didn't do something. The real truth is null has been the way it is now since day one, the entire game has been that way, various individuals and groups seeking whatever advantage they could over others and damn the consequences.


In other words, you can't sit there in an Alliance that is Blue to Goons (an Alliance i used to be a part of btw) and complain about Blue anything.


Only a few people run Alliances/Coalitions. Ultimately they are the ones who decide to blue up everything within 20 jumps. and further, or not. Was nullsec always like this? I have been playing for less than 3 years so I wouldn't know. But from what I've read and heard apparently not.

And yes I do see the irony of me making this observation considering who I currently fly with.


We are literally next door to Venal mate.

Take a look at that coalition map I posted.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#783 - 2015-05-19 07:00:56 UTC
this board does not recognise the legitimacy of the triple-dog dare as the phrase is not alliterative

the double-dog dare is sustained and endorsed
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#784 - 2015-05-19 07:36:29 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
this board does not recognise the legitimacy of the triple-dog dare as the phrase is not alliterative

the double-dog dare is sustained and endorsed


I dodecadogdare you!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#785 - 2015-05-19 08:43:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

Terrible mechanics aside. It wasn't CCP that made nullsec stagnant, it was a small clique of players, and after fozziesov drops, they will do it all over again. Hell, they're at it already. Rebuilding the blue donut.


It's not a small clique of anything, it's people being people, human nature at work. People will take advantage of ANY situation, whether it's lawless space in an internet game or in real life (look at real life businesses using various laws and regulations to not only make a profit, but beat the crap out of their competition, hell, you don't even have to go that far, look at any High School lol)

Blaming it on a "few people" is an old and tired fallacy (and one usually offered by people who themselves have contributed to the problem but don't want to take any blame), the idea that "things would be great" if a handful of people didn't do something. The real truth is null has been the way it is now since day one, the entire game has been that way, various individuals and groups seeking whatever advantage they could over others and damn the consequences.


In other words, you can't sit there in an Alliance that is Blue to Goons (an Alliance i used to be a part of btw) and complain about Blue anything.


Only a few people run Alliances/Coalitions. Ultimately they are the ones who decide to blue up everything within 20 jumps. and further, or not. Was nullsec always like this? I have been playing for less than 3 years so I wouldn't know. But from what I've read and heard apparently not.

And yes I do see the irony of me making this observation considering who I currently fly with.


We are literally next door to Venal mate.

Take a look at that coalition map I posted.
And with all seriousness, you could not have picked a safer part of nul to set up home in.
Keep the right 2 systems safe, you really have little to fear. At least until Cobalt Edge fail cascades, then you may or may not see some interest, if the right group decide it is worth the trouble.

Have a good relationship with your neighbours? Camping EOY can be fun, spent many an hour there a few years back. While multiboxing anoms with alts, camping EOY can be entertaining and break the monotony.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#786 - 2015-05-19 09:27:24 UTC
Eve is dying, since 2003, it is dying, just a matter of time... time to lock thread.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#787 - 2015-05-19 10:00:17 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
this board does not recognise the legitimacy of the triple-dog dare as the phrase is not alliterative

the double-dog dare is sustained and endorsed


I dodecadogdare you!

malcanis will be censured by the board on charge of being a showoff
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#788 - 2015-05-19 10:49:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

Terrible mechanics aside. It wasn't CCP that made nullsec stagnant, it was a small clique of players, and after fozziesov drops, they will do it all over again. Hell, they're at it already. Rebuilding the blue donut.


It's not a small clique of anything, it's people being people, human nature at work. People will take advantage of ANY situation, whether it's lawless space in an internet game or in real life (look at real life businesses using various laws and regulations to not only make a profit, but beat the crap out of their competition, hell, you don't even have to go that far, look at any High School lol)

Blaming it on a "few people" is an old and tired fallacy (and one usually offered by people who themselves have contributed to the problem but don't want to take any blame), the idea that "things would be great" if a handful of people didn't do something. The real truth is null has been the way it is now since day one, the entire game has been that way, various individuals and groups seeking whatever advantage they could over others and damn the consequences.


In other words, you can't sit there in an Alliance that is Blue to Goons (an Alliance i used to be a part of btw) and complain about Blue anything.


Only a few people run Alliances/Coalitions. Ultimately they are the ones who decide to blue up everything within 20 jumps. and further, or not. Was nullsec always like this? I have been playing for less than 3 years so I wouldn't know. But from what I've read and heard apparently not.

And yes I do see the irony of me making this observation considering who I currently fly with.


We are literally next door to Venal mate.

Take a look at that coalition map I posted.
And with all seriousness, you could not have picked a safer part of nul to set up home in.
Keep the right 2 systems safe, you really have little to fear. At least until Cobalt Edge fail cascades, then you may or may not see some interest, if the right group decide it is worth the trouble.

Have a good relationship with your neighbours? Camping EOY can be fun, spent many an hour there a few years back. While multiboxing anoms with alts, camping EOY can be entertaining and break the monotony.



We're dreadful neighbours

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#789 - 2015-05-19 10:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Varathius wrote:
Eve is dying, since 2003, it is dying, just a matter of time... time to lock thread.


Well point of this thread were "shrinking numbers": players online daily average last 5 years 49K -6 months 36K -1 month 24K...

No idea if multipple character skilling has anything to do with this (people wont need as many accounts anymore, but still spent equal amount of PLEX´s to skill other pilots on same accounts, just cant log them all on at once), pretty sure longer skill ques have nothing to do with it (people logging for short time to put skills has no effect on average).

Unfortunately also at least playerbase (maybe even CCP) believes increasing competition in (other space) games wont affect EvE, and it is true ED and SC will be totally different games than EvE, but again, ED were launched 6 months ago, from since we have dropped from 36K to 24K daily average?

Connection with launch of ED? I guess we will know/see only after launch of SC, and/but if EvE loses same 12K online daily in 6 months after that, I say that if EvE is not dying, it´s at minimum getting pretty old and near anyway.

So we, and especially CCP, should really try to focus on these threads/threathts if they wanna keep servers running and staff hired. Best way to do is to focus on EvE´s strong points, its social/communal aspects combined with PvP, not to go compete (with other games) in exploring/mining/pve, like some have suggested...
´

EvE will survive some how, I´m sure of it, small or big, guess many players even have noticed they have died away from EvE (after being upset/affected by many changes like this next one), otherway round :)
Only time will tell...
Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
#790 - 2015-05-19 10:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Malcanis wrote:

We are literally next door to Venal mate.

Take a look at that coalition map I posted.


You won't find much in the way of pew pew in Venal, lived there before joining Init.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#791 - 2015-05-19 11:16:57 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
So we, and especially CCP, should really try to focus on these threads/threathts if they wanna keep servers running and staff hired. Best way to do is to focus on EvE´s strong points, its social/communal aspects combined with PvP, not to go compete (with other games) in exploring/mining/pve, like some have suggested...

Then players who want to do PvE will leave and they are majority right now. It doesn't matter SC or E:D. Pure PvP won't last. There wasn't single example of that kind of game in the past apart from FPSs that stayed on market. Why we can't have both anyway?
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
EvE will survive some how...

Because? Wishfull thinking? If sov changes go right EvE will be fine.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#792 - 2015-05-19 11:44:36 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
So we, and especially CCP, should really try to focus on these threads/threathts if they wanna keep servers running and staff hired. Best way to do is to focus on EvE´s strong points, its social/communal aspects combined with PvP, not to go compete (with other games) in exploring/mining/pve, like some have suggested...

Then players who want to do PvE will leave and they are majority right now. It doesn't matter SC or E:D. Pure PvP won't last. There wasn't single example of that kind of game in the past apart from FPSs that stayed on market. Why we can't have both anyway?
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
EvE will survive some how...

Because? Wishfull thinking? If sov changes go right EvE will be fine.


Eve has stayed online and alive for 12 years now, guess because of what?

When i started playing EvE, 2009, you think I would still be playing if I would not have been dragged (recruited) from high sec mining/missioning to null sec.
NO WAY.
Perhaps not even so far as 2011.

Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring, but it comes then to another great aspect of EvE that no other game has:

HUGE chats (like IRC of old days) with all over the world.

And to "B", yea I guess it´s up to CCP how long they see it beneficial to run servers/company and at what numbers, but this game were designed to be nitche game so I guess they could go back to smaller operation models/costs of early 2000´s they had back then.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#793 - 2015-05-19 11:44:42 UTC
Well, then let's declare carebears as the social outcasts they are ...
... and give them their own space where they can bear all day without griefing the real players ...
... and participating in the economy.

Maybe give them some sort of sign as well ...
... so everyone can easily identify them as such.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#794 - 2015-05-19 12:04:23 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Eve has stayed online and alive for 12 years now, guess because of what?

Because it was the only space game of that kind on the market? Now it may not be the only one.

0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
When i started playing EvE, 2009, you think I would still be playing if I would not have been dragged (recruited) from high sec mining/missioning to null sec.
NO WAY.
Perhaps not even so far as 2011.

Good for you. I found my niche in EvE, took me some time. I'm comfy there, exploring cluster and WHs. What about those "hisec carebares"? Maybe they like playing game the way they do? Just because they are not in null they wrong?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#795 - 2015-05-19 12:28:20 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Eve has stayed online and alive for 12 years now, guess because of what?

Because it was the only space game of that kind on the market? Now it may not be the only one.


This is simply untrue, more than that, it's a lie people tell themselves when they want to stick with a certain game.

EVE has had lots of competition from space themed games. EVERY one of them came with a short sighted and ignorant prediction by some scared or disgruntled player that "x game is going to kill EVE".

None of them did. None of the new ones will either no matter how much Chris Roberts kool aid people drink. Elite: Dangerous is out and is a thing and even though people claimed it would hurt EVE, nary a ripple was felt. It will be the same for the others.

I wonder how many more years will EVE have to survive every new game that comes out (without so much as breaking stride) for people to understand that it's unique and "un-killable" by anything other than CCP itself? I guess 12 years isn't enoguh.

Quote:

Good for you. I found my niche in EvE, took me some time. I'm comfy there, exploring cluster and WHs. What about those "hisec carebares"? Maybe they like playing game the way they do? Just because they are not in null they wrong?


Yes and no. No if they like it and for some odd reason playing a video game in safety appeals to them. Yes if they end up leaving without experiencing anything other than "the Light Beer of EVE" (High Sec) and thinking that's all there is.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#796 - 2015-05-19 12:51:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is simply untrue, more than that, it's a lie people tell themselves when they want to stick with a certain game.

An example of space MMO then? I don't recall any.

Jenn aSide wrote:

Yes and no. No if they like it and for some odd reason playing a video game in safety appeals to them. Yes if they end up leaving without experiencing anything other than "the Light Beer of EVE" (High Sec) and thinking that's all there is.

So what CCP should do? Kick them out of hisec? It's supposed to be sandbox, ppl play the way they like. Who's fault this is then? CCP? people thinking wrong about what EvE is? What is in null anyway?
I have 0 interest for PvP, yet I'm still here, as potential target for PvPers. Am I playing this game wrong? How many more could it be? It shortsighted thinking only about PvP aspect.

There won't be X game that kills EvE. Hard to kill niche product.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#797 - 2015-05-19 13:07:31 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is simply untrue, more than that, it's a lie people tell themselves when they want to stick with a certain game.

An example of space MMO then? I don't recall any.


So Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, SWTOR, and Black Prophecy never existed? (And Jump Gate was said to do the same, but it was never published). I must have a truly vivid imagination then.

Go ahead, google any of those games "Vs EVE Online" and you will get lots of nice links, many of them to these or the old EVE forums where people claimed they would kill EVE.

Quote:

So what CCP should do? Kick them out of hisec? It's supposed to be sandbox, ppl play the way they like. Who's fault this is then? CCP? people thinking wrong about what EvE is? What is in null anyway?
I have 0 interest for PvP, yet I'm still here, as potential target for PvPers. Am I playing this game wrong? How many more could it be? It shortsighted thinking only about PvP aspect.

There won't be X game that kills EvE. Hard to kill niche product.


English next time lol.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#798 - 2015-05-19 13:27:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

English next time lol.

Yep, that makes no sense Lol I'm doing three things at once...Sad non native speaker don't help either.

As I said there won't be game that will kill EvE.

All examples are lame btw...different target (maybe Black Prophecy?).

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#799 - 2015-05-19 13:36:24 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

English next time lol.

Yep, that makes no sense Lol I'm doing three things at once...Sad non native speaker don't help either.

As I said there won't be game that will kill EvE.

All examples are lame btw...different target (maybe Black Prophecy?).



Yep, different target, just like Elite, Star Citizen and "No man's Sky" (3 current examples of "this will kill EVE) are 'Jet fighters in Space' games. ie games not aimed at the core EVE player.

Their are people who play EVE only because they can't find another space game they like so EVE is a "place holder". Those types are ALWAYS dissapointed when a new space game comes out and it doesn't deliver what they want. The problem is what they want is unobtainable (ie the feeling they got as a 9 year old kid watching Star Wars lol). But that's a personal problem.

EVE Online ebbs and flows when it comes to people playing it, it always has, since day one. Nothing to worry about, EVE would still be a profitable venture with much fewer actual players, which means it's not going anywhere any time soon
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#800 - 2015-05-19 14:51:38 UTC
Yep, totally agreed.
EvE is game for special type of gamers. That is also reason why people come and go so much as they do.

But...

Jenn aSide wrote:

None of them did. None of the new ones will either no matter how much Chris Roberts kool aid people drink. Elite: Dangerous is out and is a thing and even though people claimed it would hurt EVE, nary a ripple was felt. It will be the same for the others.


Kind of disagree here, according to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility since ED launched 6 months ago, daily average player count has gone down from 36K to 24K last month.

No idea if any connection to ED actually, or what SC launch will do, but nonthless CCP (or we players) should not just think that other games wont matter, they do (even those not space/sci-fi), there is just limited amount of players and lots of games, and CCP needs every dollar they can ge, really.

So, for me there is no better reason to focus into areas what make EvE different.