Science & Industry

In terms of modules being used and strengths of modules I have a fairly good idea what is being planned..........but I'm not going to tell you.

not only pita but RISK. The thing is all the game is around (at least they say so).

Replacing RISK by cost-efficiency is bad for the game design.
That's why i have never understood the reasons behind slots removing.
We want people to use POSes? POSes are not needed since slots removed.
We want people to spread around and risk by their stuff doing this? No need to move from Jita anyway. You just pay more for doing industry there.
Industry is limited by availability of slots and time? There is no more limits here.

Need to say that all my experience with industry comes from occasional researching tasks in past and few manufacturing cases. So i agree right from the start that i can miss lots of things here.
However:
- Year ago: i bought BPC in Dodixie. I fill my ship by minerals and go 3 systems away to manufacture the ship (Dodixie slots are busy for next 10+ days). Time+RISK here (i use industrial + i'm in militia so i have lots of wartargets).
- Yesterday: i bought BPC for ship in Dodixie. I press few buttons and manufacture the ship. The cost is few thousand ISK (maybe it was more but i didn't notice it anyway). Hour after and newly created ship is on market. Hour after and i have sold it and got a profit. Time? Nope. RISK? Nope. For me it is great and flawless. For the game - it is bad design.

Not a peep so far, but it's early days.

We've been waiting since December 2009 for Dominion Sov to be fixed and that part of the game, to quote CCP Fozzie, is a big ******* deal. If CCP think that industry is a comparatively niche part of the game (as evidenced by the treatment it has received thus far) we might not even get that kind of rapid attention.

While there are some quick wins that can be had, like re-mapping blueprint ranks, there are also some really nasty bits of the game that need to be completely re-worked. Just ripping out Crius will not help, because a big part of the Crius problem is that they papered over the cracks in related areas of the game rather than fixing them.

In order to have an industry system that is actually better than either the post-Crius or pre-Crius industry systems and represents real progress, we need extensive re-works done on both POSes and corp roles. We'll also need some more minor work done (and a thorough bug-fix) on the inventory and contract systems. That's before you consider logistics, mining etc.

Looking at the amount of work that needs to be done, the rate at which CCP is progressing and the sometimes cowboy-quality workmanship that we've been getting from them lately... I would strongly advise against anyone holding their breath for this.


I think we can be thankful for that small mercy.


This touches on one of the thorny issues we have with CCP, that they don't know or understand their own game as well as we would like. As a result they keep on doing pants-on-head ******** things, over and over again. I think they need to work harder at hiring and retaining more subject matter experts in the design and QA teams.


Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


All of which can be attributed to a woefully shallow understanding of the game. That, combined with excessive confidence and the usual pressures of business.

High end industry content can just be a matter of scaling it up (I know one person that runs about 400 science jobs at a time). It can be producing individual supercapitals, larger numbers of capitals, or serious production lines of the larger subcapitals (particularly T1 battleships, which require tens of billions of capital).

For me, a good deal of my production profit comes from sourcing pirate ship BPCs at bargain prices, moving them to areas they will sell well, and building the hulls there and selling them. This can be done on a larger scale than I do it.

I disagree on that point. Massive scale doesn't make the content high-end industry, it just makes the player a high-end industrialist.

supercap manufacturing is so ******* boring, the only effort is freightering

that's bullshit. rigs are extremely profitable to manufacture. lots of them are well above 500.000 ISK/hr and well above 20% profit. they also sell great and material is easy to get.

I buy from Jita, ship it out to build and then ship it back. I'm making between 15 and 35 million profit per ship depending on the market. I sell 120-140 ships per month from that production line.

Since the changes to POS came into effect I can in theory run numerous productions lines from the same modules using different characters. My only limitation in the near term is playing the Isk game in Jita.

I think a lot of it with ships is "I bought a MASSIVE stockpile before mineral re-balancing, so my minerals really are cheaper." I bought some high megacyte/zydrine modules pre-patch and can afford to sell them below build cost because my original costs were below build costs.

Also the fact that 100% reprocessing has been removed kills manufacturing. Before, anything that was sold below mineral value got taken off the market immediately. Now has to either buy out all of them and hope the price stays higher (a dicey proposition) or actually buy the item to use, which also takes time.

The reality is hardly as depressing as this thread suggests. There is always profit to be made.

I'll stand by my statement that the lower ranks need to be remapped.

S&I skills have been massively devalued and no "added bonus" for replacing Production Efficiency (compulsory skill) with Advanced Industry (yes, let's have even more overproduction) has ever materialised.

T2 BPOs are fine, finer than they have been for some time really. All the issues with them are now either fixed, historical or identical to the issues presented by all of EVE's industry system.

The industry expansion you are looking for is when they release all the new structures. That's when the meat will arrive to go with the potatoes that we must subsist on in the meantime. Unless they **** it up, obviously.