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State of T2 Production?

Author
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#121 - 2015-07-23 15:24:49 UTC
Geopoly wrote:

And also be a man CCP, delete all those T2 BPOs finally!


whats your business with T2 BPOs? Jealous?
They already have been severely nerfed in all the industry "rebalance", they became so bad that people dont want them anymore. Their market value has dropped by 50% or so.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#122 - 2015-07-23 15:42:03 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Geopoly wrote:
And also be a man CCP, delete all those T2 BPOs finally!
whats your business with T2 BPOs? Jealous?
They already have been severely nerfed in all the industry "rebalance", they became so bad that people dont want them anymore. Their market value has dropped by 50% or so.
The T2-BPO only era and the terrible way invention was originally implemented has given T2 BPOs a bad reputation. Oh, that and a minor issue with a corrupt CCP employee giving them to his friends.

T2 BPOs now are not T2 BPOs then. All we get for our massive investment of tens of billions of isk is a reduction in clicks and some minor cost reductions. Plus, because our BPOs are worth so much it's risky to use them in a POS. So we have a big risk associated with using a productivity tool that inventors can use without worry.

I love T2 BPOs. But they 'aint ******* with yo **** no more so you can chill about that.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#123 - 2015-07-24 19:33:27 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Geopoly wrote:

And also be a man CCP, delete all those T2 BPOs finally!


whats your business with T2 BPOs? Jealous?
They already have been severely nerfed in all the industry "rebalance", they became so bad that people dont want them anymore. Their market value has dropped by 50% or so.
So 10-20+ billion from 20-40+ billion? Interesting how the people who own T2 BPO's are the one's who insist they are worthless so no need to mess with them.

Jealous? Sure. But it doesn't really matter since the one person at CCP who might have tried to get rid of them isn't around any more. And industry carries on with them still in the game.

Moon materials have a much bigger impact on my industry activities/profitability. I more wish CCP would get the siphon working the way it was intended so there would be an opportunity for black market materials to affect the game.


Geopoly
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2015-07-26 05:41:29 UTC
I've checked profitability of Freighters/Orca in IPH. It's like 50k per hour! Considering the price of BPOs and time needed to build, is it really fair or balanced at all?
Painkill3r
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-07-26 17:31:25 UTC
Geopoly wrote:
I've checked profitability of Freighters/Orca in IPH. It's like 50k per hour! Considering the price of BPOs and time needed to build, is it really fair or balanced at all?


Supply and Demand mate.

The role of the industrialist, as with anyone else who makes their isk on the market, is to supply what buyers want. If not many people want what you have for sale or what you produce, relative to the number of people producing it, you're never going to have much profit.
Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
#126 - 2015-07-27 04:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Talsha Talamar
If CCP needs any proof for the desolate situation of the industry gameplay, the activity level on this subforum should make it abundantly clear.

Industry has been simplified to a degree, that it turned into trading in most cases.
As clunky as the teams feature was, it allowed dedicated industrialists to achieve clear market advantages based on manufacturing.
Crius has leveled the industrial playing field to a degree that it has become boring.

We need an iteration on the teams feature at the very least.
Missioning is by now way more profitable than most industry activties with much less risk as well as investment of isk and time attached.
erg cz
Novus Unitas
Synergy of Steel
#127 - 2015-07-27 07:42:19 UTC
Did anyone noticed, that since May of this year the number of sell order in Jita droped from 114 thousands to 101 thousands? Like 10 % drop, you know? Dodixie dropes from 42 to 37. So - even harder. Summer always displayed less activity on market, but depression never was that heavy.
Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
#128 - 2015-07-27 12:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Talsha Talamar
erg cz wrote:
Did anyone noticed, that since May of this year the number of sell order in Jita droped from 114 thousands to 101 thousands? Like 10 % drop, you know? Dodixie dropes from 42 to 37. So - even harder. Summer always displayed less activity on market, but depression never was that heavy.


It is a shame that we no longer get the quarterly reports from that economics professor.

I went over quite a few numbers in t2 invention.
Most items I checked that were somehow profitable (> Isk 200k slot/hour) were heavily saturated with sell offers.
Many items were profitable primarily because someone had hiked the market.

Given the amount of hassle it is to actually sell the products in such a situation, especially in combination with the required isk-games, heavy market manipulation, the cyclic nature of eve-markets and the point that many people do not run proper profitability analysis, the slot/hour rates for most industrialy activties are simply not worth it.

If one adds in the time required for hauling, production clicking, market analysis, selling and the many costs of opportunity associated with production, including hediging against the risks of the markets and the sandbox, industrial activities become even more unattractive compared to other gameplay.

Riskswise just look at all the ship-bpos with month of research on them that became unprofitable for years after the extra-material changes made by CCP. Or look at the POS changes that made multiple modules besides weapons pretty much useless and worthless. Now look at the impending doom of the structure reform that might destroy the value of POS related BPO. Then take into consideration the changes to refining and the effect that had on the value of stockpiles and the list goes on and on ...

Industry in EvE today is simply not profitable enough given the financial risks and time involved.

I know that there are some areas and strategies in industry that are still somewhat profitable relative to other means of income.
But they seem to be the exception and would probably not hold up well if one properly accounted all associated costs.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#129 - 2015-07-27 15:08:36 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:

So 10-20+ billion from 20-40+ billion? Interesting how the people who own T2 BPO's are the one's who insist they are worthless so no need to mess with them.

I didnt say they are worthless, I say they already have been nerfed heavily for no reason other than jealous people unwilling to do investment and buy such a BPO by themselves.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2015-07-27 19:57:57 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:

So 10-20+ billion from 20-40+ billion? Interesting how the people who own T2 BPO's are the one's who insist they are worthless so no need to mess with them.

I didnt say they are worthless, I say they already have been nerfed heavily for no reason other than jealous people unwilling to do investment and buy such a BPO by themselves.



I've actually stopped building from most of my T2 BPOs because they've become unprofitable to build with since Crius. I don't manufacture enough to justify setting up a POS so, being strictly station based, my T2 BPOs are collecting dust because the items sell at a loss for what I can produce them for.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.

Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2015-07-30 16:48:27 UTC
350125GO wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:

So 10-20+ billion from 20-40+ billion? Interesting how the people who own T2 BPO's are the one's who insist they are worthless so no need to mess with them.

I didnt say they are worthless, I say they already have been nerfed heavily for no reason other than jealous people unwilling to do investment and buy such a BPO by themselves.



I've actually stopped building from most of my T2 BPOs because they've become unprofitable to build with since Crius. I don't manufacture enough to justify setting up a POS so, being strictly station based, my T2 BPOs are collecting dust because the items sell at a loss for what I can produce them for.


From "most of my t2 bpo's" lol. Good to know there are players with stockpiles of t2 bpo's in this game.

I feel bad for your loss and maybe you should get some reimbursement given the cost of purchase, but then again you probably recovered the cost anyways.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#132 - 2015-07-31 14:33:08 UTC
The industry side lost alot of dept. And in the bigger picture, the T2 changes were needed to simplyfy the player income streams to be able to have better control over them. While at the same time value got removed and a hugh portion off steady income off players got taken out of the market. Smart move indeed, but very very player unfriendly. I dont know if anyone is noticing the bigger picture of witch the T2 changes were just part off: A total overhaul of the entire income systems of the players to be able to control and manipulate it easier: and thus potentially be able to raise it... (why just manipulate the plexes if you can do it better).
I guess the smart ccp economist finaly solved the puzzle of the (missed) revenue stream.

About T2 bpo's, i amhappy i got off in time. T2 bpo's will go much much lower. Expect 2006 prices: 20b for ships untill another industy overhaul or something that give T2 bpo's more benifits

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?